wnyc.org / 93.9fm / am 820

Upon listening to Mr. Alexander expound upon the reputation of Mr. Rove, I was profoundly enlightened. Bizarre stuff, as one would come to say after hearing such histoire. Thanks, Leonard, for great radio.

chris o #40,

It may be data, but it isn't really conclusive in my mind. The recent primaries have proven over and over that polls are not that accurate, at least not any more. I'm also not willing to endow Drudge with that kind of authority, I think he plays it fast and loose sometimes.

chris o,

I also appreciate the picture. I feel that way all the time and I don't even read the tabloids or watch Fox or MSNBC. Even NPR ant the NY Times has trouble avoiding the candy and fat.

mc #38,
yes the claim is that there was widespread counting fraud in 2004 (this is the electornic age of Diebold, etc. - it's a little easier to strike wide); if you remember, Drudge called it for Kerry and there was widespread dismay in the conservative camp because the nationwide exit polls showed a kerry advantage so the conservatives thought they lost

it is not conspiracy theory stuff, just data simply presented

mc, yes and the same can be said about the rulers we 'elect'

chris o, thanks, we're on the same page. i just wanted make that point. i like the picture you paint with the candy, perfect.

we are fat laden drones-mind and body. wnyc listeners excluded

chris o #33,

My understanding is that the count of the actual votes showed a 3 million advantage for Bush. I also heard about the exit polls. But votes are what count. Does the professor think that there was widespread rigging all over the country? Because only that would explain a 3 million vote advantage. Believe me, it gives me no pleasure to say that. I haven't seen really good evidence or reporting of this, and I'm not big on conspiracy theories unless there is pretty good evidence.

hjs,

I think it will be harder in '08 because Ted Strickland is in charge. The secretary of state is in legal trouble and may be gone. I'm not sure. I will be spending the whole month of July in OH and I plan to look around and take the temperature. In '04 it was not a happy place. It was very divided. I'm expecting to see a lot of economic devastation.

I haven't seen any posts from eva for over a week.

hjs #31,
i don't disagree with you at all. i will just point out that i was responding to a post that said Rove was brilliant because he got bush elected despite the liberal media bias. so i was just refuting the claim that the media was biased against bush and making the claim that it was the other way around.

it's tough. we are just animals. the msm gives us fat and candy and drugs and those are more tempting than fruit and vegetables for most people, i guess...

hjs,

You are right. We should not be blaming the media which are just reflecting back what they think we want. What we should be doing is taking them to task when they act irresponsibly, as in being biased, not reporting very well or completely, or not getting stories from alternate points of view. But they are not to blame for our government. We are.

mc 30
so one could say it was a laboratory for how to run election when you want a certain out come. will they use these skills in '08. ohio might be the only state that counts in november?

has eva been around

#25,
Regarding the nationwide vote advantage Bush had over Kerry in 2004: the normally very accurate exit polls showed the opposite - Kerry had the advantage.

A professor put out a study soon after the election. Just google "unexplained exit poll discrepancy" and there is a pretty concise, readable study casting doubt on Bush's "victory".

hjs #31,

Amen!

chris and others

please don't take this as an attack but why it the media's fault all the time? when will the users of media get the blame. people watch 'the media,' advertisers pay for their product, the government asks nothing of the public airwaves. it's our fault we support them. same for big oil, but that's another topic.

hjs #27,

Yes, the long lines, mostly in Cuyahoga and Franklin Counties, the most urban and Democratic counties. And then there was the bit about the "terrorist" scare in Warren County. Not to mention Blackwell throwing out voter registrations because of the paper stock they were printed on. Unbelievable. When he ran for governor against Ted Strickland in '06 he actually tried to get him thrown off the ballot (a stunt that Obama tried and succeeded at doing in the Illinois State Senate Primary). Luckily the OH courts didn't buy it. And then of course, Diebold's chief exec promising to deliver OH to GWB.

chris o #28

A cautionary tale for all of us. Beware the media mega-narrative. The least obvious is often the most true.

Yes mc, the media really treated Gore poorly. The most egregious example was the Love Canal story retold in the New York Times by Katharine "Kit" Seelye. It was a horrible piece of reporting, an outrageouls hit on Gore, and a complete fabrication of what he said about Love Canal.

Al Gore claims he found Love Canal. AL Gore claims he invented the internet. Al Gore claims Tipper and he were the basis for Love Story. Waht a fantasist, what a liar. What a stiff boring guy that looks down on the common folk. That is the narrative the media went with.

Ira Glass did a phenomenal look at the Love Canal quote - how Gore was inspiring young people that they could make a difference and the NY Times twisted it to make it seem like he was taking credit when he was giving all the credit to one young girl.

mc
the lines of voters in Ohio was a early indication that there was to be disenfranchisement.

chris o #22

Isn't it interesting how the media love to pile on when they smell blood in the water?

chris o #8

There is credible evidence that the election in Ohio, my home state was stolen in '04. There was a Watergate style breakin in Toledo Ohio that I only heard about because My father told me about it. There were also many other shenanigans. The GOP secretary of state, Ken Blackwell was much more clever than Katherine Harris in FL at hiding his tracks. The only problem I have with this narrative is the 3 million more popular votes GWB received nation wide. What was up with that?

chris o
and he forswore coke also!

#19

Yes! It is all so unfair! When will they get the opportunity to tell their side of the story?

Robert - You seem to forget the media coverage of 2000. Al Gore received blistering unrelentingly negative coverage from the media as the exagerrator. Bush was the folksy regular guy you'd want to have a beer with (if he was not an alcoholic who forswore alcohol many years before).

ROBERT
yes an evil genius, fooled the nation and destroyed the GOP, thanks, well see if it was worth it.

The attack and invasion of Iraq was most certainly NOT sanctioned by the United Nations or any body thereof. Thus is was a war waged in violation of international law, a war of aggression, the precise crime for which Nazis were convicted and exectuted at Nurenberg.

I think Karl Rove is brilliant....He did manage to get GWB elected, twice, in the face of an overhelmingLy biased media including, but not limited to, NPR...I am sure at some point you will interview someone with another point of view.....I should live so long !!!!

Was Rove for or against Bush dressing like a pilot, landing on an aircraft carrier in a fighter jet and speaking in front of the giant "mission accomplished" banner?

Steve, the USA doesn't submit to international law and rove will not be tried for war?

if tried it will be on domestic coruption or the plaime affair. but will not spend time in jail.

oh please, bush the lesser was a ceremonial president at best.

@hjs - Bush can't pardon him from breaking international law.
@CC - resolution was based on lies to the UN by the administration. And you could try him just as easily for the torture, Geneva Convs violations ... and I'm sure there's plenty more we don't even know about.

#12

"Lynching?"

Yes, defend Rove, Bush and everyone else responsible for the war in Iraq. Good use of time and effort. They are victims now and you must help ease their suffering.

Was Rove behind the attack on McCain in the infamous 2000 south carolina primary?

#4 Steve,

"He should be tried for the war crimes he helped abet and jailed if found guilty."

On what legal grounds? You mean the current war in Iraq? The one sanctioned by UN Resolution 678 as a result of Iraq's UN documented violation of resolution 1441?

You people are the Huffington equivalent of Fox News enthusiasts with your attempts to brand someone a 'criminal' without due process of law.

But then again, lynching people was never based on proof, facts, or laws.

Lee Atwater was gay? Don't you mean Terry Dolan?

Is Rove really to blame for the fall of the republicans? I would think it would be the neoconservative movement?

There is at the least real if not compelling evidence that Kerry won in 2004, so perhaps it would be more accurate to say he stole 2 presidential elections. That is quite an accomplishment.

the pardon is already signed and delivered.

ugh! more psycho drama with rove family, what a suprise.

Remind the author that Rove won ONE election for Bush, who was appointed the first time.

Karl Rove: his dreams of a permanent majority crash into probably the worst, most divisive and least popular presidencies ever. Good work, turd blossom.

Can you imagine how many people would still be alive if he and the Boy King had never met? Thousands of soldiers, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis ... it boggles the mind. He should be tried for the war crimes he helped abet and jailed if found guilty.

It is an insult to the profession of architecture to call Karl Rove an architect, not to mention it's illegal in most states to use the term for anyone other than a licensed practitioner.

Do you think Antoin Rezko will go to jail or be tried in world court?

Do you think Karl Rove will go to jail or be tried in world court?