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Re: this experiment... sometimes the converse is true, and humans are kind to each other. In WWII, as an infantryman, I saw a long line of released concentration camp prisoners lying by the side of a road, and a Gypsy was chewing a piece of bread and then feeding it into the mouth of the toothless old Jew next to him. Such sights give me confidence about the basic goodness of mankind in terrible situations.

I wonder how this experiment would turn out if all the prisoners and guards were women? Would it be different from the men? We will never know.

The Movie "Das Experiment" based on the Stanford Experiment explores what would happen if the experiment was not stopped.

I agree with Wendy Bellows that we teach our kids to conform and not to disagree. We teach that authority is to be trusted and do not challenge it. This has consequences with how we view advertising, TV, education..

Re: "But I am wondering why Dr. Zimbardo chose to say that people who grow up in the ghetto grow up in an 'environment of evil'."

Yes. I found that statement very jarring; however, I did enjoy the show very much. I even found the BBC documentary online and watched it, too.

I've had this book on my wishlist for some time. Maybe, I'll buy it now.

Important segment. I want to concure with Jessica V. Well said.

More people should hear this, it is what Public Radio is all about!

Great show.
But I am wondering why Dr. Zimbardo chose to say that people who grow up in the ghetto grow up in an "environment of evil". Is he pandering to his imaginary audience? Exaggerating? Had a rough childhood?
Don't do that. Stop. Grow up.
So some of his buddies became criminals does that mean that the residents of the South Bronx or the thousands of ghettos in the US are evil?
I am not saying to romanticize the ghetto but acknowledge them as the complex and/or difficult environments that they are. With all different types of people, personalities and situations.

I think, in today's society, we explicitly teach people NOT to be heroes, NOT to take up causes, NOT to fight for what they believe in. I see this all around me. Even if it's not a dramatic event in which one person saves the life of another, there are so many smaller events that reflect this. For exmaple, a parent who doesn't want to speak up for fear of retributions that might affect their child. What kind of example are we setting for our children by doing that?!

Your comment that it seems likely that situations like Abu Graib are probably more common than we are aware, given what we learn from this experiment. This may or may not be true, but I think it's the best argument for why we have guidelines, and supervision, and consequences for straying from the guidelines, for the treatment of prisoners, etc.

What is different about this adminstration is a complete disregard for guidelines such as the Geneva Convention and similar domestic laws. We throw the book out the window, and all the systems for enforcing the book, and we have dehumanizing social breakdown. It was very telling that your guest said he gave the "guards" very few guidelines--don't use "force," not much more. What a wonderful argument for the rule of law.

Fabulous show! Couldn't tear myself away!

No one, right up to general Sanchez has been sanctioned? What about the female general who got busted?

I'm wondering how Dr. Zimbardo's experiment compares with Jane Elliott's dividing her class into blue-eyed & brown-eyed children to show how prejudice works. (And so many other questions I know you don't have time for.)

2 million Jews killed in Auschwitz???? How about 2 million people! There were also many non-jews killed by the Nazis, and it is offensive that they should be written out of history by careless language.

Your guest refers to the Eichmann trial at Nuremberg. The trial was actually in Jerusalem many years after Nuremberg. Hannah Arendt covered the trial for the New Yorker there.

have you heard of the work of Bert Hellinger?

Naomi Wolf, in The End of America, examines how a society gradually accepts increasingly intrusive government action. Do you see any analogy to a person's willingness to inflict torture?

Your guest's account is similar to Ron Jone's experiment in a Palo Alto HS documented in "The Third Wave."