Word maven Patricia T. O’Conner answers your questions about the English language! Give us a call at 212-433-9692 (212-433-WNYC) or leave a comment at wnyc.org.
there are tons of bad biblical translations. the NRSV is my favorite these days. The New Jerusalem Bible was translated into French, and then from French to English. Both retain a lot of the prose & poetry, which is lost in something such as The New American Bible.
Aug. 27 2008 02:39 PM
Score: 0/0
Tisha
from Ho-Ho-Kus, NJ
Well, I guess it really depends on what translation you read, but I always heard it "of those to whom much is given, much is expected," and when I asked our very learned parish priest the origin of the expression, HE told me it was from St. Ignatius Loyola (who was probably paraphrasing (or even translating) Luke anyway.
Impressed as always at what all the listeners have contributed to this question
Aug. 27 2008 02:28 PM
Score: 0/0
Frank Deis
from New Jersey
You mentioned Pinyin and I thought you were going to lay out the full answer but you didn't quite get there. Here it is.
The answer is that it has always been BEIZHING in Mandarin. The old systems of Wade and Wade Giles go back to a Jesuit system that put a heavy emphasis on apostrophes. The problem is that English speakers are generally not prone to notice apostrophes, and the old system hinges completely on paying attention to them.
For example we have the Tao Te Ching which, with no apostrophes, should be pronounced Dao De Dzhing. Several consonants move from voiced to unvoiced with the addition of the apostrophe. And Peking, with no apostrophes, was intending to be pronounced as Beizhing. With apostrophes, P'ek'ing, it would actually be something like "Peking" but that is a word which really never existed. I think we are stuck with it as a descriptor for ducks, living or roasted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade-Giles
Aug. 27 2008 02:19 PM
Score: 0/0
John
from Woodside
LUKE 12:48 "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." This expresses the concept that the Christian God is just: he does not require any less faithfulness to the Gospel from those who have much material wealth and power. On the contrary, God seeks more committment from those who, through their earthly circumstances, have more ability to help their fellow man. john,Woodside
Aug. 27 2008 02:19 PM
Score: 0/0
Julia Paterson
"...to whom much is given, of him much will be required" comes from The New Testament, the gospel of St. Luke, chapter 12 verse 48. Hope this helps -- Google is wonderful! Julia
Aug. 27 2008 02:04 PM
Score: 0/0
R Meyer
from Manhattan
To the one whom much is given...is from the Bible. I forget where though. I suspect that it has been translated with sexist language (i.e., to the man....) Inclusive language linguists prefer "to the one...."
Aug. 27 2008 02:00 PM
Score: 0/0
Steve (the other one)
from Manhattan
"For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48
Aug. 27 2008 01:58 PM
Score: 0/0
Bo
from Brooklyn - Prospect Heights
To whom much is given, much is expected. - Luke 12:48.
Aug. 27 2008 01:57 PM
Score: 0/0
robert
from park slope
At what point should one no longer be offended at widespread grammatical faux pas and accept that the language has changed?
Aug. 27 2008 01:56 PM
Score: 0/0
Betty Ann
from UES
Can you ask her about the word "jabip." It's a slang term my mother from Pennsylvania used to use when she didn't want to tell us where she was going (i.e. Christmas Shopping).
Aug. 27 2008 01:52 PM
Score: 0/0
Michael -
from west village
On the show - please dicuss the growing use in recent decades of the pronunciation "rahhther" rather than the American "Raaaather"
To what do you attribute this?
Aug. 27 2008 01:49 PM
Score: 0/0
donovan
from Brooklyn
Pat is asking herself why she is even in this segment...
Aug. 27 2008 01:48 PM
Score: 0/0
Kelly Chang
from NYC
Peking is a tranliteration of Cantonese or Southern "north capital" pronounced closer to "buck" + "king". In Mandarin, the same characters are pronounced "bay jing" or Beijing in pinyin spelling. There is a J sound in mandarin. very close to the english, less like a soft j many westerners think it is.
Aug. 27 2008 01:48 PM
Score: 0/0
Vic
from NJ
...PS Turn this reference around, Chinese would refer to their adversaries as, "running dogs."
Aug. 27 2008 01:46 PM
Score: 0/0
Paulo
from Paterson, New Jersey
I saw a commercial (think it was for a phone company) where two parents are talking to their daughter in Chinese. And the daughter asks if her mother's making Peking duck. While I couldn't understand a word of it, she definitely said a word that sounded like Peking. So maybe Peking refers to some other detail of the city of Beijing.
Aug. 27 2008 01:46 PM
Score: 0/0
jackie
from Midtown
Why "Nueva York" from some Spanish-speaking communities? On the contrary, I've never heard Puerto Plata referred to as "Silver Port."
Aug. 27 2008 01:43 PM
Score: 0/0
T. Scott Lilly
from Brooklyn
You should play the They Might Be Giants song Istanbul!
The origin of the name "CHINA"...? In ancient Greek, "cina" is "dog" Is this, perhaps, just another cultural "dis." that got lost in translation?
Aug. 27 2008 01:41 PM
Score: 0/0
SKD
from brooklyn
On the subject of house versus home: I think "home" became a buzzword with realtors who wanted to make their product more appealing. That explains why smaller houses are more likely to be described as homes than larger houses, in order to bolster the less grand product. Also, in this unfortunate time of high mortgage foreclosures, I think we hear talk of foreclosing homes instead of foreclosing houses in order to call up the emotional aspects of the situation.
Aug. 27 2008 01:38 PM
Score: 0/0
Christopher
from East Village
I have a problem with the pronunciation of "divisive". I have always pronounced it with a long "I" ("eye) sound on the second "I". Then I started hearing President Bush saying it with a short "I" (as in "miss"). I've looked in my dictionary, and the "miss" pronunciation isn't there. And now I hear Obama saying it in the same Bush way!
Aug. 27 2008 01:38 PM
Score: 0/0
Norman
from Toronto
Hello!
Leonard, your knowledge of Chinese is so correct and impressive.
However, in Mandarin the word "Beijing" is prounounced with the "j" like "juice" or "jack", not "zh", which is a common mispronunciation.
Your show is amazing. And I absolutely adore the segments involving Patricia.
Aug. 27 2008 01:37 PM
Score: 0/0
Paulo
from Paterson, New Jersey
Farsi is the Arabic word for the Persian language (Arabic has no "P").
Aug. 27 2008 01:37 PM
Score: 0/0
david
from riverdale/NYC
The chief executive of the US is addressed as "Mr. President;" the chief executive of a city is addressed as "Mr. Mayor," yet the chief executive of a state is addressed as "Governor." - Why the discrepancy?
Aug. 27 2008 01:37 PM
Score: 0/0
Its_just_me
I wish Greece had its Hellenic name: Hellas .. what happened?
Aug. 27 2008 01:37 PM
Score: 0/0
hunter
from LES
which is more commonly spoken in chinatown, cantonnese or mandarin?
Aug. 27 2008 01:36 PM
Score: 0/0
alex
from NYC
According to All Things Considered, Beijing should be pronouned with a hard "j", like the beginning of juice (not soft, as in azure).
They reprimanded the NBC staff for this. Lucky they haven't heard Leonard Lopate.
Aug. 27 2008 01:36 PM
Score: 0/0
Frago
from 2 feet from the monitor
A House is Not a Home is the 1953 autobiography of New York madam Polly Adler
House = house of prostitution
Aug. 27 2008 01:33 PM
Score: 0/0
alex
from NYC
A House is Not a Home is the 1953 autobiography of famous New York madam Polly Adler. (Wikipedia).
Aug. 27 2008 01:30 PM
Score: 0/0
Chuck D
from Jersey City
I have been hearing a lot of people using the word "(dis)orientated", instead of "(dis)oriented". Is orientated a real word? I didn't think so. Has the whole world gone mad?!?!
Aug. 27 2008 01:30 PM
Score: 0/0
Marc Naimark
from Paris
A question for Patricia: I love your appearances with Leonard and I enjoy reading your blog, but I'd like to know what language-related blogs you read and radio programs and podcasts you listen to, or would recommend to the non-professional language lover.
Aug. 27 2008 12:06 PM
Score: 0/0
Elie Walters
from New York City
Hello In England they use the word 'homely' in place of 'homey', as in "the room feels much more homely now". Which came first? Is one idiomatic and one proper English? thanks
Aug. 27 2008 11:38 AM
Score: 0/0
Marc Naimark
from Paris
Patricia's back!
Aug. 27 2008 04:48 AM
Score: 0/0
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Comments [33]
there are tons of bad biblical translations. the NRSV is my favorite these days. The New Jerusalem Bible was translated into French, and then from French to English. Both retain a lot of the prose & poetry, which is lost in something such as The New American Bible.
Well, I guess it really depends on what translation you read, but I always heard it "of those to whom much is given, much is expected," and when I asked our very learned parish priest the origin of the expression, HE told me it was from St. Ignatius Loyola (who was probably paraphrasing (or even translating) Luke anyway.
Impressed as always at what all the listeners have contributed to this question
You mentioned Pinyin and I thought you were going to lay out the full answer but you didn't quite get there. Here it is.
The answer is that it has always been BEIZHING in Mandarin. The old systems of Wade and Wade Giles go back to a Jesuit system that put a heavy emphasis on apostrophes. The problem is that English speakers are generally not prone to notice apostrophes, and the old system hinges completely on paying attention to them.
For example we have the Tao Te Ching which, with no apostrophes, should be pronounced Dao De Dzhing. Several consonants move from voiced to unvoiced with the addition of the apostrophe. And Peking, with no apostrophes, was intending to be pronounced as Beizhing. With apostrophes, P'ek'ing, it would actually be something like "Peking" but that is a word which really never existed. I think we are stuck with it as a descriptor for ducks, living or roasted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade-Giles
LUKE 12:48
"For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." This expresses the concept that the Christian God is just: he does not require any less faithfulness to the Gospel from those who have much material wealth and power. On the contrary, God seeks more committment from those who, through their earthly circumstances, have more ability to help their fellow man.
john,Woodside
"...to whom much is given, of him much will be required" comes from The New Testament, the gospel of St. Luke, chapter 12 verse 48. Hope this helps -- Google is wonderful!
Julia
To the one whom much is given...is from the Bible. I forget where though. I suspect that it has been translated with sexist language (i.e., to the man....) Inclusive language linguists prefer "to the one...."
"For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48
To whom much is given, much is expected. - Luke 12:48.
At what point should one no longer be offended at widespread grammatical faux pas and accept that the language has changed?
Can you ask her about the word "jabip." It's a slang term my mother from Pennsylvania used to use when she didn't want to tell us where she was going (i.e. Christmas Shopping).
On the show - please dicuss the growing use in recent decades of the pronunciation "rahhther" rather than the American "Raaaather"
To what do you attribute this?
Pat is asking herself why she is even in this segment...
Peking is a tranliteration of Cantonese or Southern "north capital" pronounced closer to "buck" + "king". In Mandarin, the same characters are pronounced "bay jing" or Beijing in pinyin spelling. There is a J sound in mandarin. very close to the english, less like a soft j many westerners think it is.
...PS
Turn this reference around, Chinese would refer to their adversaries as, "running dogs."
I saw a commercial (think it was for a phone company) where two parents are talking to their daughter in Chinese. And the daughter asks if her mother's making Peking duck. While I couldn't understand a word of it, she definitely said a word that sounded like Peking. So maybe Peking refers to some other detail of the city of Beijing.
Why "Nueva York" from some Spanish-speaking communities? On the contrary, I've never heard Puerto Plata referred to as "Silver Port."
You should play the
They Might Be Giants song
Istanbul!
Mandarin: "bei" = "north"
Cantonese: "pek" = "north"
Bei/Pek + ing = Beijing/Peking
The origin of the name "CHINA"...?
In ancient Greek, "cina" is "dog"
Is this, perhaps, just another cultural "dis." that got lost in translation?
On the subject of house versus home: I think "home" became a buzzword with realtors who wanted to make their product more appealing. That explains why smaller houses are more likely to be described as homes than larger houses, in order to bolster the less grand product. Also, in this unfortunate time of high mortgage foreclosures, I think we hear talk of foreclosing homes instead of foreclosing houses in order to call up the emotional aspects of the situation.
I have a problem with the pronunciation of "divisive". I have always pronounced it with a long "I" ("eye) sound on the second "I". Then I started hearing President Bush saying it with a short "I" (as in "miss"). I've looked in my dictionary, and the "miss" pronunciation isn't there. And now I hear Obama saying it in the same Bush way!
Hello!
Leonard, your knowledge of Chinese is so correct and impressive.
However, in Mandarin the word "Beijing" is prounounced with the "j" like "juice" or "jack", not "zh", which is a common mispronunciation.
Your show is amazing. And I absolutely adore the segments involving Patricia.
Farsi is the Arabic word for the Persian language (Arabic has no "P").
The chief executive of the US is addressed as "Mr. President;" the chief executive of a city is addressed as "Mr. Mayor," yet the chief executive of a state is addressed as "Governor." - Why the discrepancy?
I wish Greece had its Hellenic name: Hellas .. what happened?
which is more commonly spoken in chinatown, cantonnese or mandarin?
According to All Things Considered, Beijing should be pronouned with a hard "j", like the beginning of juice (not soft, as in azure).
They reprimanded the NBC staff for this. Lucky they haven't heard Leonard Lopate.
A House is Not a Home is the 1953 autobiography of New York madam Polly Adler
House = house of prostitution
A House is Not a Home is the 1953 autobiography of famous New York madam Polly Adler. (Wikipedia).
I have been hearing a lot of people using the word "(dis)orientated", instead of "(dis)oriented". Is orientated a real word? I didn't think so. Has the whole world gone mad?!?!
A question for Patricia: I love your appearances with Leonard and I enjoy reading your blog, but I'd like to know what language-related blogs you read and radio programs and podcasts you listen to, or would recommend to the non-professional language lover.
Hello
In England they use the word 'homely' in place of 'homey', as in "the room feels much more homely now". Which came first? Is one idiomatic and one proper English?
thanks
Patricia's back!
Leave a Comment
Register for your own account so you can vote on comments, save your favorites, and more. Learn more.
Please stay on topic, be civil, and be brief.
Email addresses are never displayed, but they are required to confirm your comments. Names are displayed with all comments. We reserve the right to edit any comments posted on this site. Please read the Comment Guidelines before posting. By leaving a comment, you agree to New York Public Radio's Privacy Policy and Terms Of Use.