On Demand
Education Minutes
Racing to the Top
Gotham Schools.org editor Elizabeth Green talks about New York's chances of qualifying for federal Race to the Top funds, now that the guidelines are out.
Two Million Minutes
In the 2007 documentary, 2 Million Minutes, venture-capitalist-turned-filmmaker Bob Compton critically compares American secondary education to its Chinese and Indian counterparts. The film's newly-released sequel, The 21st Century Solution, explains how American students could better spend their 2 million minutes in high school.
- About the Brian Lehrer Show »
- Staff Bios »
- Contact Us »
- Tapes and Transcripts »
- Latest Episode »
- Show Archive »
Features & Series
Podcast
Stay up to date.
Subscribe to the Podcast
YOU PRODUCE The Brian Lehrer Show
Be a listener-producer with facts, questions and people you'd like to hear on the air.
More
The Brian Lehrer Show Scrapbook
Visit the scrapbook for daily photos and miscellany from The Brian Lehrer Show.
More
Shop at Amazon!
The Brian Lehrer Show picks
Start your Amazon shopping on WNYC.org and a portion of your total purchase goes to WNYC.
More
Comments
Refresh
from what I understand, China is moving more towards what American education used to advocate - creativity, individuality, etc. and the US is moving more towards what China's system was - test-taking, teach-from-the-book, etc.
Is this true and if so, which way points towards educational progress?
thanks! great topic.
Gabrielle
Let's nominate 5 of those minutes on a lesson called "Birth Control".
Please ask Mr. Compton about his company's work to out-source college-level jobs to cheap sources such as India and China. I saw him make an impassioned plea at a Yale U. conference on American and global education in Feb 2008 that outsourcing is good for America. What is the point of improving American education if executives and entrepreneurs like Mr. Compton keep creating jobs overseas at the expense of creating high-quality jobs in America? He will say "I can not find enough quality American grads" when in actuality means "I cannot find enough quality American grads willing to work at Indian or Chinese wage levels." Just because a person is rich enough to make a documentrary to espouse the free market, globalization idealogy that has cost this country so dearly over the last 40 years does not make him worthy to have his views heard on a great show like yours. He deserves a voice but do you have someone scheduled as counter-weight to his views?
Do these "Charter Schools" use teachers in the teacher's union?
How many/what percentage of this "super school's" incoming students drop out before graduation and go back to a regular school?
How many/what percentage of this "super school's" incoming students drop out before graduation and go back to a regular school?
What about race and socioeconomic lines? It seems to me these kids get the shaft.
So this guest will tell a 'disruptive' 8-year-old to take a hike?
And if every school is allowed to do this, these kids get tossed into the street?
Bob Compton sounds like a good little fascist.
As an 8th grade teacher in Brooklyn, I really want to reiterate the 1st callers sentiment about the types of students that we have in our schools. We have a mandate to educate EVERY child. Many of these students are coming feom abusive, broken homes, I personally have had homeless students. I am certainly the type of man that tries to say yes rather than no, but these are real barriers to learning for everyone that have to be addressed in order to extrapolate models like BASIS to the entire nation.
I strongly object to the notion that some kids "don't want to learn." They may have a number of barriers to get over before they can focus on school--child abuse, homelessness, hunger, etc. And schools like this one are prepared to throw them away like garbage. These are CHILDREN. We cannot hold them to the same level of personal responsibility as adults. This is the kid of logic that keeps our jails full, and the students who graduate from this school will have to pay the cost of housing those who were left behind.
Even though children are chosen by lot from those who apply, the pool of applicants is strongly self-selected
Thia guy is illiterate. What to expect from an American corporate zombie? Yes, the best school is in America, yes, everything American is the best, yes his opinion is the best.
Dear illiterate corporate zombie pre-programmed for life.
Yes, American students ask questions (as ordered) and are praised for asking the questions (as ordered). Did it occur to you, that there can be a difference in quality of questions? Did it occur to that maybe, maybe the most independent student doesn't follow the orders and ponders real issues and finds profound answers without participating in this zombie game? Did anyone tell you that Michelangelo and the like spent years COPYING before moving on. Etc. Disgusting product of dismal corporate education. Why is he on NPR?
the most important key stat here is 80% are not certified. as a former teacher this means they are content experts first, then learn technique to be teachers. this is the key. passion for subject is the critical element for a teacher, the technique of how to teach can be learned, the reason to care every day can not.
So that explains it! He is using his business background to evaluate schools. In a business you can fire the bad apples. When you are educating a generation, that is NOT ENOUGH!
Great topic. In this borough, The first few years of grammar school promote the students w more potential, relatively, whist the better students after grammar school are offered no "gifted students" programs aside from some AP.
Where the public schools do seem to excel -- and where most of the "special" resources are directed -- are bringing SLOWER and TROUBLEMAKING students (every class has a few) closer to "normal". Gifted students transfer out to the child after their wonderful grammar school educations.
If a child is being disruptive, just throw him or her out? What about finding out *why* they're being disruptive & addressing the problems that are causing this behavior, whether it's neurological (like ADHD or Tourette's syndrome) or familial (like abuse)? Compton's approach sounds like the opposite of Geoffrey Canada's in the Harlem Children's Zone.
Children are not GETTING fundamentals in school! My 4th-grade daughter has to write these in-depth analytical response essays and she can't spell, make a sentence, or use proper punctuation! Guess who has to drill her in these fundamental skills...ME! Parents are being used as unpaid teacher's aides because the work is not getting done in class - teachers are too busy prepping for state and federal tests! In a country that constantly preaches family values and family time, we are letting homework and schoolwork invade our houses, invade our family time and create unbearable stress. Ask any parent about the homework witching hour. Ask any parent about the fights, the tears, the frustration. Ask any parent about the sleep! Kids these days are horribly sleep-deprived as a result of too much homework and the pressures of teach-to-the-test. They have no time to play anymore. Stop the madness!
It sounds very much like the high school I attended to in Bogota Colombia,for 12 years called REFOUS that was funded by a Swiss man and followed a very similar model down to the Pre calculus and the Socratic method.Plus Math and Music were very intense,we learned in French and Spanish and received English language classes from the age of twelve years old.
It was open to everyone from different socioeconomic levels but to STAY in it, you could not be disruptive, problem kids were expelled,people that comment here about the kids with disciplinary challenges are missing the needs of the ones that are gifted academically.My classmates and graduates went on to Ivy leagues schools in America,(Myself as well as four of my classmates of a class of 25, got into Columbia University), and best universities around the world, the track record of my school is very impressive, not to mention that the school produced one of the best Mayors of Bogota who has recently advise Bloomberg to create the bicycle day here in NYC!
Give me these "the best" for some questions about World history and I will be a judge not some corporate zombie.
dr anna
I dream of such schools for my kids. However inclusion is the path chosen by NYC schools. Disruptive and even violent children are mixed into the fold and as a result teachers are hamstrung and unable to fulfill their own dreams about excellence. I have had enough of this corporate mindset that its the unions and teachers that are failing the system. These anti worker tyrants disregard the stetting itself. I know from family members that the NYC Dept of Ed spends millions upon millions for international consultants to improve the system. Lower class sizes and proper settings for disruptive students is not even in discussion by these high priced problem identifiers. Enough. Fix the setting and the students will show improvement
17/Madeleine --
"Parents are being used as unpaid teacher's aides"
i must disagree w you. we have a child about the same age and i view the process adamantly as a team process. my child can only learn so much during school and in that process -- some of it must be reenforced or retaught at home. this viewpoint also gives me the chance to supplement not only to my child but to some degree direct the class's activities, such as books and publications read and even field trip activities.
Admittedly I wouldn't necessarily say this is the "best" practice, it might be better if the child got all his or her schooling in school. But I barely trust any school to school my child, let only completely do so, so any involvement is my opportunity to take some control. Lessons I've helped w include food chain (seasons, factory food, visit a farm) and community life.
Bottom line is that it is so hard to be a parent, especially a single and/or working one.
Education is such an emotional issue, it's hard to have a sane conversation... First, my background: I have lived in both Arizona and New York. My children attended both charter and regular public school in Arizona, and my son attended 3 years of high school at an "alternative" public school in Manhattan. I was a certified teacher at one point, although I did not teach for long.
There is one big difference between public charter schools and most regular public schools in most states: public charter schools can limit the size of their student body. That means they don't need to take every child. In Arizona, they have to have some kind of unbiased way of choosing the students (such as a random raffle)-- but when a grade level is full, it's full. That's not true of regular public schools, at least not in Arizona. This, of course, has all kinds of consequences and implications. Essentially, the students (or their parents) are choosing to attend there and are usually thrilled that they got in. This is of course NOT necessarily true at a regular public school (although in some areas, there is a "choice" system available).
Despite the above difference, THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T LOOK AT SUCCESSFUL SCHOOLS SUCH AS BASIS AND LEARN FROM THEM. We may need to modify some of it to make it work at a school where less kids are happy to be there -- but still, we can take some of the ideas and implement some of them, even if in a modified format.
Regarding the discussions about disruptive kids, these students are often "thrown out" of regular public schools as well and sent to a "special" (regular) public school. However, it's true that you START OFF with less disruptive kids in most charters because the kids/parents have requested to be in that particular school. In a regular public school, you have a much higher percentage of students who are just "there," without having requested to be there. So, obviously, that raises the amount of disruption that is tolerated before a student is "thrown out."
wendy, don't understand your second post -- disruptive kids are sent from regular schools to special schools?
it reminds me -- here in nj schools that used to send troubled kids to great places like highland park (nj's) center school are increasingly trying to simply integrate them into the regular school population to save $. Some parents argue this alone is the nut of the problem of reduced expectations of so called normal kids at high schools. the teachers are teaching to the lowest denom and the systems are losing what had been a set of valuable and wonderful institutions filled with psychologists and other specialists.
asdf, let me try to explain... When we lived in Arizona (until three years ago), a COUPLE OF TIMES I personally knew of a child who was sent to a different public school, rather than that child's "neighborhood" school. They had to improve their behavior or performance or both before being allowed to return to their regular, neighborhood, public school. I admit, I have no idea what it took to get to that point. I'm sure numerous suspensions or other forms of (controversial) consequences occurred first. Hope that helps...
1st, full disclosure: My wife and I are both New York City DOE teachers. Our 2 sons both successfully went through the city system; one of them attended a "test in" school, Bronx HS of Science.
The response to the 1st caller was very telling. We are continually fed info about how newly designed schools and curricula will help children be successful students, generally with the implication that the source of the problem is the quality of the teachers. We are told that if we improve the teacher, get rid of tenure, use merit pay and we'll see improvement. Then we find out these new schools are in reality improving the student population 1st by being selective. Unfair comparison! I am very resentful of the constant harangue that teachers aren't doing enough to motivate students. Klein once said that good teachers make good schools, the implication being that if a school is bad it's because the teachers are bad. In reality, good students make good schools; good teachers make good students better.
I would like to see Mr. Lehrer lead a discussion about whether or not our schools in NYC are indeed failing or if this is a misconception based on false yardsticks promulgated by people who stand to gain from the idea of a failing schools (consultants, venture capitalists, etc.).
I am a college professor and mother of a son with ADD/LD.
For students with difficult personalities and challenging learning disabilities, it sounds like you are suggesting a "separate but equal" type of system. This is most troubling.
If we really want to follow the models of other countries, we would institute tracking systems and sort our students out at a young age for their careers and trajectories. If that's what you're trying to promote, why don't you just come out and say it? Problem is, it's not very democratic.
Tina: Who are you addressing?
In terms of the overall conversation, I believe that the guest was looking at models of other countries for good ideas, not simply for the sake of copying schools in third world countries.
For your first point, I see people arguing "separate," but I don't see people arguing "equal."
The whole point of separating the easiest students to educate from hardest, or vice versa, is that their needs are NOT equal.
jjl: I was addressing Bob Compton.
I was trying to be a little ironic but I guess it didn't work. Obviously separate is never equal, that was the point of Brown vs. Board of Ed. Charter and private schools have the ability to weed out under-performing students, so where are they supposed to go? And why should they be weeded out? If the teachers and schools are that great, then they should be able to deal with them, that is part of their job as teachers of children. Their job is not to get the highest test scores. Contrary to Arne Duncan, education is not a "race."
Second, the U.S. is trying to superimpose pieces of education models from other countries. Here in CA, for example, they adopted the math standards that are used in Singapore! Singapore tracks students and puts low, middle, and high performing children in different types of classes starting around 6th grade. Supposedly we don't want to do that in the U.S. because allegedly every child should have the chance to go to college. But none of these other countries (India, France, etc.) operate on that assumption, they all track, with the assumption that only the brightest will go to college (which the govt. will pay for).
Our education system in the U.S. is supposed to be democratic -- equal opportunities for all. I don't see that happening in the charter school movement, nor in the Race for the Top game. When teachers take on the hardest students, and they are not rewarded for their hard work, they get discouraged and leave.
"Contrary to Arne Duncan, education is not a "race." #29
Tina, everything is a race in a fascist/Social Darwinist/"dog eats dog" society.
Can anyone explain to me why all these Geckos are allowed to run the country's education? Shouldn't most of them be in prison or asylum?
"What's key here? Eighty percent of the teachers are NOT certified! And that IS good! Instead of false accreditation, the teachers are very knowledgeable in their respective fields of study. It's all about content!"#31
Yeah, life is simple. And it doesn't matter where they acquired their knowledge (in some "the rich are rich because they deserve to be rich" school, for example), who their master is ("the rich who deserves to be rich") what the goal of education is (preparation of corporate zombies serving "the rich who deserve to be rich" in a hope to become "the rich who deserve to be rich") etc.
No hope for the world.
Leave a Comment
Please stay on topic, be civil, and be brief.
Back to EpisodeEmail addresses are never displayed, but they are required to confirm your comments. Names are displayed with all comments. WNYC reserves the right to edit any comments posted on this site. Please read the WNYC.org Comment Guidelines before posting.