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Comments

• [1] George from Bay Ridge October 12, 2009 - 03:40AM

  How is foreign language instruction different between the two countries? Chinese is difficult for westerners.

  
  
• [2] Megan from MIllburn October 12, 2009 - 10:32AM

  I refuse to have my kids to become a drone. The east Asian style of teaching does not allow creativity. The test score do not tell the whole picture. I was raised in Taiwan and educated until middle school. The education system there like China is test driven and it does not work!!!

  
  
• [3] JT from Long Island October 12, 2009 - 10:33AM

  I know many parents that don't want to pressure their kids too much at an early age with simple things like the alphabet and reading. They'd rather wait until their kids are ready, whatever that means. They also think math and science are hard so they don't present it to their kids.

  How can people in the US complain about our system v. the Chinese system when most people seem to be against the methods used in China and India.

  
  
• [4] Randall from Manhattan October 12, 2009 - 10:34AM

  Aren't we talking apples and oranges? The issue in China is that you have so many people going after fewer jobs and positions of power. I would think a testing system is a way to filter people out.

  Whereas in the U.S. there have been traditionally many ways for you to make money. And, it's very hard for you to live in real poverty.

  And, doesn't the exam process in China date back to Confucius times?

  
  
• [5] yun ning hu from brooklyn October 12, 2009 - 10:38AM

  what i found the best part about the US education is the emphasis on the thought process. The Asian grading system is all about the final result, the final answer. The US system wants to see the thought process of how you get to the answer. You get credits for getting part of the answer correct.

  but the asian system is great on respecting the value of education. teachers and knowledge are highly valued in the society. I was appalled when I saw students openly sleeping in the classroom.

  
  
• [6] mozo from nyc October 12, 2009 - 10:39AM

  Children in the US aren't getting the basic skills they need in elementary school. As a result, adults in the US can't use math, read analytically or put anything into any historical perspective.

  I taught English for three years in Japan in the public school system. The average Japanese high school student will wipe the floor with your average US student when it comes to math and science. Plus, they are a heck of a lot more creative in those fields.

  There is a lot of rote learning but those fields do require it.

  
  
• [7] John Blaser from Brewster, New York October 12, 2009 - 10:41AM

  I have spent more than 30 years in education. I have a sophomore in high school and fourth grader. I have read Dr. Zhao's book and heard him speak. He is right on target. The over-emphasis on tests and test-taking has taken away classroom time that can be spent on project-based learning and collaborative work by students. Something is wrong when my fourth grader comes home with test preparation packets to complete because of upcoming New York State tests instead of learning-based projects to do. Unlike many times in the education's past, things have gone way too far in one direction.

  
  
• [8] anna from new york October 12, 2009 - 10:43AM

  These women are terrifying - a scary combination Eastern and Western zombiism. I wonder how many cliches can one use in one sentence.

  Yes, Americans are trained to think and that's why they enjoy working 80 hours a week, love their bosses who force them to do this, hate universal health care, vacations and affordable education.

  
  
• [9] IC from New York & Montreal October 12, 2009 - 10:43AM

  My son and I were both education in mixed systems between east and west (not the same route). He went through the Canadian system in dual language, then boarding school in the US and recently transferred to one of the top selective public high school in NYC in two languages again. Good as the school did in US ranking based upon test scores, my son was stunned by his history class where none of the kids were able to identify Thomas Jefferson. I wonder if the US is really teaching kids the necessary knowledge to go forth in this global world, not just the global economic world.

  
  
• [10] Maya from Brooklyn, NY October 12, 2009 - 10:44AM

  Scan through the comments of any show, any topic, any date.....count how many times people pluralize a noun by adding apostrophe-s. It drives me INSANE.

  (Example: scan through the comment's of any show....count how many time's people pluralize a noun...)

  
  
• [11] Nick Lento from NJ October 12, 2009 - 10:49AM

  THE deeper questions have not been seriously asked.

  Brian is wayyyyyyyy too much of a diplomat.

  There is a direct conflict between an authoritarian state that will KILL you if you challenge it and inculcating the capacity for CREATIVITY.

  Creativity requires FREEDOM!!!

  America's school system is indeed screwed up.....but at least we have some FREEDOM!!! Therefor we get a modicum of creativity and innovation.

  China doesn't just "copy" lol. It STEALS!!!

  Further the talk about how "moral" the Chinese are is sheer bullshit. They have abused capitalism even worse than we have.......so much of what they make is literally toxic so they can make a few cents more on each "unit".

  They have no public healthh system any more....hundreds of millions of theor people get no education and are treated like slaves.

  Unless you have money there, you are a total peasant. It's a dog eat dog nation where only the most ruthless and unprincipled "rise".

  Tianenmen square taught the Chinese kids to swallow authoritarianism or be shot.

  To discuss the Chinese educational system as if it existed in some kind of vacuum is downright stupid.

  Great topic....but superficial milquetoast bs production/interview.

  
  
• [12] anna from new york October 12, 2009 - 11:02AM

  Yeah, Nick, Americans are sooooooo free. Continue repeating this ... as ordered.

  
  
• [13] Simon from Upper West Side October 12, 2009 - 11:02AM

  An education philosophy does not exist in a vacuum. There is a whole host of cultural values upon which we draw hints on how to treat and educate kids.

  We (the Chinese) treat children as an extension of the family rather than as individuals, which resulted in our Asian values of "repecting elders", "never question authority".

  Under that culture, it is logical to send our children to become "drones", and to present "hard" subjects like math and sciences to the kids, because they're expected to just suck it up.

  I grew up in Hong Kong under that system, came to the States for college, had a breeze getting a Bachelor, but had to work very hard to get my Ph.D. We're not built to be creative thinkers.

  To be fair, however, I see merits in both philosophies - I still cringe whenever someone needs a calculator to do simple multiplication - but taking the "best of both worlds" involves much more than innovating a new education philosophy - it involves innovating a whole new cultural paradigm on what the role of children is in society.

  
  
• [14] Donald from Trenton October 12, 2009 - 11:18AM

  I had an IM friendship this past summer with a woman in rural China who was teaching English to 5th graders. The text she used was very dry, entirely non fiction, no children referred to in the text. British English was taught. I was surprised to learn she taught school on Saturdays and through early August.

  
  
• [15] A from Queens October 12, 2009 - 11:21AM

  Readers/ listeners should not only look at how Asian countries are showing up the United States. The US is below European countries as well. Look at the TIMSS and PISA studies of student performance at the 4th, 8th, and 12th grades. European and Asian countries consistently out-shine us.

  The source of the problem? The curriculum is terribly watered down. Furthermore, experimental ideas, such as constructivist math (aggressively imposed during the Joel Klein tenure), has been shown to be an abject failure.

  A poster earlier this morning (Maya from Brooklyn) noted that comments are peppered with apostrophe-s for plural nouns. The source of this is a two generation tradition of discarding grammar. Not only are youths using this kind of erroneous syntax, I am seeing my younger colleagues (teachers) using this same kind of punctuation. No wonder CUNY colleges have to ask NYC school graduates to sit for remedial classes --grammar-free English classes have resulted in inadequate writers.

  As any educator that has had contact with foreign-schooled students, these students will tell you that they had to work harder for their grades in the country of their birth.

  We shouldn't pursue longer days or longer years; this would just involve more of the same low-standard, watered-down methods that are mis-educating our youths.

  PS, I'm disturbed by the anti-Chinese undertone of some of these comments. (Again, look to the TIMSS and PISA results --it's not just the Asians that are putting us to shame.) We can contrast our education systems without getting bulgar.

  
  
• [16] Laura from NYC/Beijing October 12, 2009 - 11:34AM

  When comparing the educational systems between USA and China, ordinary Chinese parents with money have an extremely limited understanding. Most of them want their kids to have an American accent first, to get some connections in American society, maybe to locate a job in USA.

  Moreover, many researchers in education do comparison in pure pedagogical techniques rather than looking into the social factors that affect educational practice.

  However, if youngsters have received a good enough basic education in China and a higher education in US/western nations, the most common pattern of making Chinese young elites, they will bring new ideas and new ways of doing thing and new (not just western) thinking to China.

  These will be very important factors that will influence Chinese families and society. Eventually, they will affect the practice in Chinese universities and secondary schools and elementary schools and kindergarten.

  The latest economic development help the expansion of education in China. As a product of both educational systems, I hope this phenomenon would provide a stage for an Enlightenment in China, so that the globalization will benefit more people beyond the material domain.

  
  
• [17] Bob Abate from Yonkers October 12, 2009 - 12:02PM

  For the past ten years I have been a volunteer Math Tutor in the South Bronx, Yonkers and Westchester County, working with several hundred students ranging from 5th graders through adults at a local community college. During that time, there have not been twelve students who fully knew their Multiplication Tables - a most fundamental underpinning for Math success. Of course, virtually all knew their 2x, 5x & 10x tables but beyond that they virtually hit a wall. At that point, many would immediately whip out their calculators to find the answer!

  I demonstrated to these students the benefits of mastering the Tables - today and for the rest of their lives. Once they saw it, they were excited and agreed. I then devised a very simple and highly effective way to teach these students the complete Tables in a half-day.

  The only resistance to any of this was from the "educators" - most teachers, principals and administrators. They objected to what they called memorization and "drill and kill". They had "no time" for teaching the Tables because it wasn't part of their syllabus, schedule or upcoming test. They wanted their students to "think", not do "drill and kill."

  Once they have passed their Algebra, Geometry and Trigonometry exams/regents, most students will rarely use those subjects in real life. Some will go on to do so in the sciences, engineering and business related areas. However, each and every student can use their mastery of the Tables in everyday life from supermarket shopping to most every other transaction of their day-to-day life.

  We often hear the term - "return to the basics" - used over and over but this is one area where I firmly believe Failure Is Not An Option.

  Bob Abate

  rpa63@bestweb.net

  
  
• [18] anna from new york October 12, 2009 - 12:20PM

  "Readers/ listeners should not only look at how Asian countries are showing up the United States"

  Correct. My friends' son took a leave from his second year of college in Warsaw, Poland and spent a semester in graduate program at a certain Ivy institution. After a semester, he returned to his second year of college disgusted by the low level of the graduate program here (geology).

  
  
• [19] donna from NYC October 13, 2009 - 08:36AM

  Yong Zhao was incredibly thoughtful and wise. I think this interview should be listened to by anyone making decisions that affect our children's education. He was enormously compelling in his explanation of how the obsession with testing is harming our children's growth, learning, ability to engage in critical thinking, and creativity.

  
  
• [20] Martha from NJ October 15, 2009 - 01:02PM

  I haven't read his book, but based solely on this interview Yong Zhao is right about overkill in testing, but wrong elsewhere. His observations seem anecdotal.

  The fact is that on the 2006 international PISA test, the U.S. ranks near bottom in math and science, behind all other industrialized nations. Conversely, we rank number one in highest cost per student.

  In a 21st century, global economy driven by science and technology, the U.S. won't be able to compete with other nations who have highly educated populations working for lower wages.

  Also, how can a democracy continue to function if its citizens are poorly educated? We vote on matters like science, healthcare, and war, yet many still question evolution (because they don't understand the definition of a scientific hypothesis) or know Iraq's history.

  Maybe Brian could do a counterpoint show on US education, and how it relates to our future survival. He can look at the 2009 McKinsey & Co. Report, "The Economic Impact of the Achievement Gap In America's Schools." It's a real eye-opener.

  Creativity is great, but lets make sure all our kids get the basics first. Our democracy and economy depend on it.

  
  
• [21] Mosi from chicago October 24, 2009 - 05:02PM

  I think that it is important to emphasis the basic fundimental of education with in the system. Basically if you cant comprehend the basics then your creative capasity will always be limited in the same way that those who only focus on test results. the truth is that the basic princibled of education in the United States has changed and the system has failed to change with it. It not so much about the focus of the system but making that focus relative to todays climate. The reason we lack in the areas that we have low scores in the U.S. is not because we can't achieve higher, it because we don't desire to. The average American believes it is not important to learn beyond a certain point of subject a area because it is not viewed as relative to his or her everyday life. This is true to a certain degree (I can not remember the last time I used what I learned in chemistry to everyday living) although there are chemist hard at work developing new things for everyday life use. That's why educating the population must be current and relative not just a systematic structure. If you can do this than there will be a natural balance between evaluation and creativity that will flow effortlessly into the social structure.