On Demand
Group Project: MTA's Service Cuts and Your Commute
Thursday, December 18, 2008
(Boojee/flickr)
In this group project, we ask you to go through the MTA's budget proposal below and help us understand how New Yorkers will be affected. Here's how:
1) Click on the link below to access the budget proposal.2) Read pages 19-23, which provide an overview of the service cuts.
3) Comment below, telling us where you live, what your commute is like, and how the service cuts will affect you.
4) Be specific! Note: The proposal below is the Nov. document. Several minor changes have been made since, the most relevant being slight decreases in the level of fare hikes. Current estimates are that: the express bus fare will rise to approx. $6.25, not $7.50 as proposed below; the base subway fare could rise to $2.50; the cost for a 30-day metrocard could be as high as $100. Again, these are all estimates, and the purpose of this group project is primarily to focus on the affect of service cuts.
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My service, specifically, is not personally affected but the section "Eliminate or restructure local bus routes that duplicate the subway" (pg 22) seems to discriminate against seniors and disabled travelers. A lot subway stations aren't terribly accessible if you're not among the fully mobile. This seems fairly ageist of the MTA.
Sorry that my comment is not personal but I think it's worth noting.
I have lived on or near PPW between 9th Street and 15th street since 1974. Elimination of the B69 on weekends will be a hardship for those of who want to go the the Grand Army Plaza Central Library, The Brooklyn Museum, The Brooklyn Botanic Garden and the hugely popular farmer's market on Saturdays. I often work weekends or go to the gym in the GAP area and returning home in the dark or burdened down with local produce from the Farmer's Market will be impossible. I do not have a car...nor do it want one. ever.
I live in South Williamsburg, near the Marcy Ave. stop on the JMZ trains. Losing the Z train, little as it runs, will result in move overcrowding during my morning commute, when I already frequently have to wait for at least one train to pass before I can fit on. I also frequently travel to Astoria, Queens, where the Q will now share space with the N. The comment that this will "potentially reduc[e] reliability" makes me very nervous about how much time that already long commute could talk. As well, being a frequent late night traveller, the news that trains will now run every 30 minutes, makes taking a cab home sound even sweeter. But where will that money come from if I'm paying over 25% more for my monthly unlimited card?
The only change that affects me is the increased load but considering such overcrowding happens anyway, what's the difference (unless I'm missing something in the revision)? As someone who rather wait for another train than cram onto an ungodly crowded one if I can help it...will this ensure that I never have that option again and that I will always be faced with an overcrowded train during the weekday?
The MTA had a budget surplus 2 years ago, and now we are in record deficit. Why didn't they save the money for a rainy day like I do daily. Now my G line will be cut drastically and shorten it more!
I only use MTA weekly, so cuts do not directly affect me.
However, in the Hudson Valley we pay to drive, often pay to park, certainly pay to park to take the Metro-north train.
I think the bus and subway system in NYC is a bargain. I wish we had more public transportation in the Hudson Valley.
I cannot read while I drive!
I take the 2, 3, 4, 5, and Q trains -- no major cuts. My impression is that service has already been slowed over the past year.
I anticipate significant increases in crowding and delays. The Q is typically mobbed going inbound. I have waited through as many as 5 trains before being able to board.
It must be noted that this is a _regressive tax increase_, proposed by people who oppose _progressive_ tax hikes (as Paterson has opposed a millionaires' tax).
If the Q runs with equivalent freqeuncy to Astoria as the W, it will not affect me that much; however, getting to lower Brooklyn from Astoria will become very difficult with the N going local now.
Also, monthly riders have been screwed for a long time! The base fare has been $2 since '03, and from from '03-'08, the fare has gone from 57 dollars to 81!!!
I hope the M18 bus on Convent Avenue is cut. I suspect the line can't be profitable; it's never full. In fact, I've only seen a half-dozen people on the bus at one time! I'm a monthly MetroCard holder as well as a car owner, so I'll also be grateful for the extra parking in the neighborhood when the buses stop rolling.
Do you really save much money by shutting down the Z and increasing J service?
the b69 is the only bus that can take me to work in the navy yard. allready it comes every 30 minutes!
the closest trains to me are the G, J, Z-but they are each more than a half mile away.
I depend on the B38 bus, specifically the limited service, to get out of my neighborhood (Bed-Stuy).
My son takes the B38 and the G to get to school. It's already pretty crowded at rush hour, and if it comes less frequently he's more in danger of being late to school and later getting home, which affects his school and time ot do homework.
Goodbye G Train...
I DONT UNDERSTAND because we just gave you more money. Our fares went up, our ridership continued and you mishandled the money. HOW DID YOU MISHANDLE THE MONEY?
PLEASE DON'T TELL US YOU FEEL TERRIBLE. This is enough to drive us to Philly.
Please add the rest of the cars onto the G Train! I remember when they came off, and it was unclear why, and while I am happy with the amount of calories I burn running the 4 cars' length EVERY DAY, it's not worth the risk of injury and angry bosses when it pulls away as I hobble towards it in heels. Also, the G is extremely crowded, we could use the space!
If they built a light rail for the 7 line extension and second avenue subway wouldn't the mta save billions?
By eliminating overnight crosstown buses that go through Central Park (M66, M79, M96), can we expect that more police will be patrolling these transverse roadways to protect pedestrians? We live on the upper west side, and my wife is a physician who works on the upper east side who sometimes needs to go into the hospital after midnight to cover a case. Taxis are a luxury for most, including us. Buses do not run often in the middle of the night - is cutting service in full a real savings? Tell us how much is saved by cutting one of these 3 routes?
I live in Greenpoint on the G line.......we are already pretty isolated here, and further cutting our services doesn't help. If you were cutting back G service but adding to the bus service, it'd be one thing.
But we need to travel to other neighborhoods (or the city) for services....
I've been working on a start up business, which requires access to the city and Astoria and elsewhere in Brooklyn.
I got a car two years ago b/c it's so difficult to get around. I am actually starting to think that it is not worth starting a business here, and am starting to look outside of the city or moving to Philly.
The people making these decisions don't use public transportation in these areas.
I am a "G" user, already a ridiculously short, slow train. I think the MTA's cuts reflect a desire to not affect Manhattan, and to dump the burden on Brooklyn, not to reflect the number of users, as your guest is saying. There is an unspoken class bias here, Brooklyn being the home of the working class, Manhattan of the elite, who invariably have better political representation. In addition, this is a completely regressive action in light of global warming, to punish people who are doing the right thing by using public transportation. Also, "impactful" is not a word.
I use the #1 train and then switch to the #2 or 3 at 96th street going downtown in the mornings, there is so much congestion at 96th street cause by commuters switching from the local to the express and oft time we have to wait for several trains before we can get on. It would seem to make sense to have some trains go express (#9 train perhaps) in Manhattan, especially since the express train empties out by the time the train gets to either 14th street or even sometimes by 42nd street. I once sent a letter to the MTA on this matter and they thanked me but failed to address the suggestion, perhaps it is a terrible suggestion, at least they could have told me why.
I don’t live on the G train (anymore), but one common sense expansion of a line in all of these cuts would be extending the G to 4th and 9th in Brooklyn. Extending this line one stop so residents in greater Park Slope can connect with greater Williamsburg could be a boom for businesses in the area. It’s already hard enough to travel within Brooklyn, these cuts make it much worse. (in addition to the deplorable state of most Brooklyn metro stations)
Though my daily trains will not be affected by route changes, the proposal does seem to suggest fewer trains and more crowded rides on most lines. I don't know *how* my commute could be more crowded in the morning -- both the L and the 123 are so packed that I and other commuters often have to let trains pass before we can squeeze on.
G Train commuter
I live in Greenpoint and the G train is already compromised. Since the cars are already shortened, you have to RUN to get the train most of time.
What is happening with the idea of ferry service to Manhattan?
The B71 in Brooklyn is the primary (only) direct link connecting the waterfront neighborhoods of Carroll Gardens/ Cobble Hill to Prospect Heights (including service to Park Slope, Botanic Garden, Prospect Park, Public Library, Brooklyn Museum, Grand Army farmer's market). If weekend service is discontinued, this will severely restrict the ability of people to get to these great public spaces and also to support the Garden, Museum and greenmarket!!!
They want 125% on the 7?!?! It's already nearly that load many hours of the day! People who ride the 7 are not all on a 9-5 work schedule. Many of the city's immigrant restaurant workers, domestic workers and maintenance workers take this train at "off-times". I would only agree to this adjustment if the MTA execs and Bloomberg have to take the train into Manhattan every day from Sunnyside like I do. I'm sure they'll enjoy the S&M experience that is the 7 train.
The Staten Island ferry is free to and from Manhattan.
These proposals are completely unacceptable. I understand the elimination of the M, G and W services. However, the N skipping trains downtown, and closing stations is ridiculous. The "reasonable" walking distance with the 4 does not make sense. The 4 goes up the East side and the N ends up on the west before Queens, where the 4 doesn't even go to. How is this reasonable? I work for the city so I understand taxes vs service = debt. I take the 2/3 to work but it does affect me since I do go out a lot on the weekends, but taking the trains like the 4 where I have had to wait for one or two traisn to go by before I could get on. What's going to happen now? I avoid the buses now because of extreme inadequacy. The buses would be completely useless after this. There are other revenue options the government could have taken and abandoned. The subway has long been the pride of NYC and envious of the world. I am now embarrased to be called a New yorker. The commuter tax reinstatement would being in more then half of the shortfall, and the elimination of the propert tax rebate would fill the reast. Why do we keep ignoring it?
Dear Brian & Doreen:
We have created a website to save the M8 bus, which the MTA is planning to eliminate:
www.savethem8.org
In just a couple of days we have gathered 422 signatures. Here are some comments from our signers:
"PLEASE do not eliminate the M8 bus! I have small children, live at East 11th & Ave B and use this line all the time. Not living near a subway is inconvenient; living without the M8 would be horrible. Trim the fat, don't decapitate!"
"Please please please. My wife is pregnant. She has gone back to school at the new school, and that bus is her LIFELINE. I am really surprised that this is an option. Please please please. There must be another way."
We have also mapped our signatures and found a huge amount of the signers are well beyond a 1/2 mile from relevent transportation.
Who should I deliver our signatures to?
Thanks,
Quinn Raymond
COBATA
(Coalition of Block and Tenant Associations)
keep the G! it is the only option for a HUGE portion of brooklyn. eliminate the E instead, it's always empty, same with the 1...
I note that the B69 and B75 buses are both slated for significant cuts, especially on the weekend. The logic is they duplicate service the F line. The problem however, is the F line on the weekend is often a bizzare maze of detours due to construction projects with stations being skipped, requiring backtracking, or rerouting on other lines. I guess my main problem here is that the low ridership statistics cited as reasons for cuts problably aren't true, especially on weekends. If anything, there should be MORE buses on weekends allowing the MTA to fix all of the stations they have left in disrepair.
Are you sure these service cuts haven't been in practice on the A line for months already?!
Only a few weeks ago, it took me one solid hour to go a distance of 30 blocks on the A train, at 7 on a weekday evening -- can it get worse? Can it get worse than riding 200 blocks on a local train from my weekend job, only to then transfer to a shuttle bus for the last 30, due to construction?
Once again the G train is the forgotten step child of the transit system. The cruel truth is that the MTA really doesn't care. The fact that they are claiming that the current economic situation is a joke. It reminds me of GM or Chrysler holding out their hands. Didn't they see this coming? They are so entrenched in corruption and greed that the lowly rider - especially on the G! - gets the shaft.
Most of the train and bus lines that they constantly cut run through the poorer neighborhoods. I lived in NYC for forty years and they constantly cut the service on the "G" train and B69. This official is clearly clueless! The "L" train is overcrowded as well.
I am a rider of the Z and G trains and often come home late at night after working at a bar in manhattan. I am a single woman who lives alone and night time safety during my commute is always an important issue. In light of all the cuts, I will be forced to take a car home more than twice a week which is an increase in my transit budget of more than $200 month. Why not just increase the fare costs, as ultimately that would save me money. Are you looking at the fact that the lines with the "lowest ridership" are also servicing neighborhoods of lowest income where people rely more heavily on public transit?
Cutting service on the G train will crowd the L train which is already beyond capacity during Rush Hour. It is impossible to get on the L train at 1st Ave since it is full coming from Brooklyn. With the City Sponsored regentrification and development of Greenpoint and Williamsburg, to single out these lines is completely backwards! Service needs to be expanded in these neighborhoods.
What exactly is "rush hour", since the G train schedule is not consistent from 7-10am anyway. There doesn't seem to be better service during so called rush hour as compared to off-peak. There really doesn't seem to be an accurate timetable for service to begin with, so to make cuts around this seems futile.
Currently there is a wait for 25-45 minutes in the evening for the G train, why not just shut the line down in the evenings (like some other cities) so we will know to use other measures. The buses from Long Island City i.e. B61 need to be increased in the evenings when the G train is slowed.
Why is the Staten Island Ferry still free with all the current MTA budget problems? Making it subject to the same subway fare fee it would bring in huge amts of revenue.
I am outraged at the cut backs planned & believe it can only result in an increase in car/taxi use, increasing traffic congestion & pollution.
Yes, the MTA has bought several new subway cars… on the QMNRW (the track I live on), the Q, then N, then M and W cars were replaced. It seems the R train serves more commuters than the M and the W, but these lines were upgraded, the R has not been. Go figure. I support the elimination of the W, it runs largely parallel to already serviced stations and runs practically empty through most of Manhattan because (unlike the R) it does not service Brooklyn.
I live in an area where I can get the train or bus or express m=bus. However, I think that it is ridiculous to "balance the budget on the backs of commuters!" Also, raising the express bus fare is too much. For a person going to Manhattan, this would be more than $90 a week.
Additionally, I can use the Senior Citizen's riders card. However, increasing the fares and reducing the service is ridiculous. I have been on platforms where the train didn't even stop because there were so many people.
What we need is either a total MTA board restructuring or a rider boycott!!!
I live in Clinton Hill Brooklyn and daily take the B69 bus straight across Vanderbilt avenue to reach Prospect Heights, Park Slope, Grand Army Library, Museum, Park etc. The elimination of the B69 on weekends is terrible news for me. It already comes LATE almost routinely and sometimes doesn't show at all on top of it being only 2x per hour anyway. More riders would ride if it was a reliable bus that came more frequently. We also use the G train frequently to reach many other destinations. Cutting that service in half is also a blow to our neighborhood.
The main problem that the MTA has is the cheap fare it charges, seriously what is what "real new yorkers" want? a free ride? have the new yorkers (that complain complain and complain) been in other cities around the world? Train stations are beautiful and clean. I wouldn't mind pay 10% 20% 40% more if it means that the subway system will have a real improvement.
The services cuts at night are the worst thing ever, many many times I HAVE no other option than grabbing a cab who charges me at least 20 dollars (and God protect me if i don't leave a "decent" tip")! I do it at least 4 times a week . please increase the rates for a best service.
Eliminating the M train running during rush hours to Brooklyn would cut the last direct connection from the Park Slope area to Williamsburg. Those areas are not well connected at all and this would cut the last available direct line.
You tell me - how am I supposed to get to Manhattan for work during the morning commute with my toddler son? We can't take the Q or F trains with the stroller, and there is no way that I will be able to afford the express bus with the proposed increase.
What are people with little kids supposed to do???
I think that using MTA money to replace the trains with new trains like on the L train is a mistake and waste of money. I used to ride the L train and the little video screens with commercials and electronic read-out of stops (which is more confusing than the map) are not an improvement over the older trains. What people want and need is service and improvements to stations which are ugly, decrepit, filled with trash, rats. More stations need public art, better tile, better light, no leaks (or floods)...
I live off the 9th Ave stop on the D/M, and about 1/3 of the time in the morning I take the M to the N to get to work (depending on which train comes first). I'll no longer have this option if the M is cut in Brooklyn, and the N goes local in Manhattan. (Not as grievous as the folks who are getting their only train/bus cut, I know, but still.)
I'd much rather a few bus lines or train stops get saved than have those annoying digital signs telling you how late the train is in loud robot-voice announcements every two minutes in every station like on the L!
Why spend money de-grafitti'ing these trains now? Live with the graf and cut less service. It is my favorite part of MTA heritage... roll with it!
My commute begins on Staten Island at 6:40 am. On the best days I arrive at my job on the upper west side a few minutes before 8am. There are VERY few good days. I usually arrive about 8:10. So my commute in is 1 hour & 20-30 minutes. Coming home it is 1 hour & 40-45 minutes (and longer when the trains get jammed up and sit in the tunnels forseveral minutes). So I am a hostage of the MTA/DOT for 3 hours every work-day. The 1-2-3 lines are heavily congested with many trains skipping stations that are packed with waiting riders. The excuses given many mornings at South Ferry is that "increased ridership" is causing delays. GEE...EXCUSE US, YOUR UNTHINKING CUSTOMERS WHO DARE TO ASSUME THAT PAYING THE FARE MEANS THE SUBWAY SERVICE IS FOR US TO ACTUALLY USE! Switching to the express at Chambers accomplishes NOTHING: I wind up back on the same local train I left and occasionally even the train AFTER that. Bus service is horrid on Staten Island with buses in poor repair, dropped routes without notice from the ferry, and surly bus drivers. My monthly transit will be going up again to over $100 a month. That may make it cheaper to drive. Why are Staten Islanders so hated by the MTA?
I have to tak exception with the guest assertion that fixing an old system is inevitably more expensive. The mindset of the guest is the reason that the MTA continues to waste taxpayer dollars. Instead of engaging maintenance programs, the MTA has consistently allowed the transportation system to irrepairably decay, then engage in massively expensive capital projects to fix condition they could have avoided.
No! Fixing an old house is not more expensive. It is only more expensive when you don't know how to fix it. And when one see projects like that the MTA undertook on the A/C line, where perfectly good tiles were covered over with new tile panels, the MTA clearly shows that it has no clue or inclination to save taxpayer money through effective maintenance.
Mike in Brooklyn.....
B71 continued from my comment above...
The main reason more people don't use this route is that it only runs every 1/2 hour, and so is not so convenient. We need increased service on this route and then more people would ride. If early morning service is cut, as MTA is prescribing, a whole group of people, including children, are going to lose their commuting line (to early morning voluneer projects as well as jobs). It's a long walk from the water to 4th avenue or Park Slope and beyond every morning. Please keep this bus service.
with all of the development that has happened in the last 10 years...many of these developers have been given tax breaks as incentives.
What is the relationship between the intense development and related population growth? They're are making money and walking away...and this has been encouraged by the powers that be.
If they are creating more densely populated neighborhoods how are they offsetting the increased costs of the mta in servicing these riders? Can there be a more Holistic approach to the obvious?
Luckily i live in Boreum Hill which is centrally located so I have options, but I have lived here for 17 years and with the growth in greenpoint & williamsburg the G train (formerly known as the phantom G train) has become crowded over the last few years. Sadly the frustrations will mount and the city will lose good people as they move because it takes 90 minutes to get to work!
I love the MTA. They ask for more money year after year and the trains come less and less. That means higher salary, better health care, and less work for the hard-working workers. Oh wait, I don't work for the MTA. Bummer...
My commute time will be increased by at least half an hour due to the reduction of weekday Q75 (which only has 2 to 3 buses every hour as of now). I will have to take 2 buses and 2 trains to get to work.
I am heavily dependent on the R(arely) train as the first stop in any commute. The only thing that makes that trip remotely bearable during rush hours is the bonus of the M train; eliminating will make the mornings as bad as the weekends are now. Also, given how inaccurate the MTA's current "headway" estimates now, I think we can safely take their forecast for the average additional ride time added by these changes and triple them.
Good public transportation is one of the main benefits of living in New York City. If this keeps up, I may be forced to take my residence (and tax dollars) to Jersey and buy a car.
An overall comment about this report is it is very hard to read. It is written in a confused way and filled with jargon. First we get the justification for the change, then we get a less-than-straightforward description of the change. Is the public supposed to know what a "headway" is for example? It's easy to think that the MTA is trying to obfuscate with this report.
My own personal experience starting on the "G" train in the morning is having to wait for a second train to arrive because I could not even board the train. I've lived in this neighborhood for 7 years and never had this experience until last month. As I'm sure many people reading this know, the "G" train comprises only 4 cars. Don't ask for more money, run the trains behind schedule and then roll in with a train that I can't even get on!
First, all my empathy to those who ride the G train. As a former Brooklynite that was my train, and I would defend it as being better than was reputed. Someone posted that they had to wait for another train because it was too full?
Never saw that. Late night though it was the worst commute I ever had to deal with. Don't know how many times I opted to walk from the C instead of waiting for the G. Cutting the G service whatsoever is bad and a slap in the face to its riders.
Currently I ride the 1 train getting on at 231st, which is the third stop going south. At certain times you can't get a seat and if you're going downtown that's a long time to be standing, which I've had to do. Someone mentioned a return of the 9 train. Why not? Oh, we're not supposed to think about adding, but taking away. Ask about anyone who rides the 1 train downtown, boarding south of 238th St. and see if they think trains run often enough.
One more thing, they mention getting rid of overnight service on BX10.......look at the route that bus takes and imagine how many people late night would have no way getting home from the 1 train. BTW there is no BX20 overnight, so that strands a lot of people who live in Riverdale.
I ride the F between Brooklyn and Manhattan and it looks like the already idiotic service is just going to get worse. I routinely wait 10 or 15 minutes during rush hour for a train and the trains are often even more crowded later in the evening when they run even less frequently.
Why increase fares when Staten Islanders get a free ride every day? Why not reinstate a fare of just one dollar for a round trip? No fare? Not fair!
I am very concerned by the proposed elimination of the B75, which I take most mornings and many evenings along with many other commuters. It's a good alternative to the F which can be very crowded. Also, the proposed elimination of the weekend B71 is a big problem for me, since I often take it on weekends to go to the farmers' market, Prospect Park, library, Botanical Gardens, etc....
We were a little behind in our mortgage this pass fall. The mail started pouring in from all these different companies that can help avoid forecloser, reducing our mortgage premiums and everything and any thing possible under the sun! I just instictively knew that his was just to good to be true, I decided to work with my bank instead.
While I could see why the MTA would like to reduce overnight service and low performing lines I wonder about the working class people who use the service to get to work and home again- especially at night. I think the mid day reduction of the 1 and 5 trains are ludicrous. These lines need to be expanded not reduced. Anyone taking the 1 train at 3pm with "boisterous" high school students will tell you that it is NOT a pleasant experience. I do not trust the MTA. I do not think they have the customers best interest in mind. I think they let too many vendors over charge for services badly rendered. I also know that is the MTA increases their fares they will not collect extra money from this customer. I have my bicycle ready and I will only use the subway when there's snow or ice in the ground. I would not be surprised to hear more and more people deciding to do the same.
While the 125% load will not make for a pleasant (or - likely - timely commute with more people blocking doors) the things I'm most concerned about are the long wait times late at night (unsafe) and overnight bus lines being eliminated (also unsafe). I'm sure there will be no increased personnel in the stations when you're stuck there with half-hour train scheduling at 3am (akin to the PATH train).
The safety - and as someone else mentioned, the discrimination against the disabled/elderly - is concerning.
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