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Campaign Trail Update
Friday, October 31, 2008
WNYC's political director Andrea Bernstein is live from Florida with an update from the campaign trail.
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This caller knows NOTHING about Socialism, and the healthcare in Canada and the UK.
Everything Andrea said is correct. American's think socialism is just something bad and they don't know what it is. Americans see socialism as the former USSR and Lou Dobbs's still "Red" China. In fact Democratic Socialism is not a bad thing and neither is social medicine. It's taboo in this country to even think of it. Very sad. Social Security is socialism and it works and it is good.
I just don't understand the, 'Joe the Plumber' phenom.
I'm a business owner. I know what I'm talking about. I'm a registered Republican voting for Obama.
Joe is a guy who doesn't own a company, admitted he doesn't have the money to buy the company, doesn't know the difference between gross and net and yet he's angry -- he's ANGRY -- that he might have to pay a small % more if he could ever get his life together.
How is this even an issue for discussion?
Please explain it to me and why Obama doesn't put out an ad saying the above and shames the whole Republican message machine. Republicans above all certainly can understand this message.
I love it. "It's condescending to say people don't know what Socialism is," and then go on to show that you have absolutely NO idea what socialism means.
Socialism?
It's unbelievable that people are willing to call progressive taxation socialist.
Either they're ignorant, or willfully stupid.
Socialism is most evident in the Alaskan distribution of oil wealth and every Alaskan citizen receiving a $2K (give or take) from oil profits. They pay no income tax, but are subsidized by the state government.
Moisha, you're awesome, and so clear: he's a socialist because he's a Marxist.
Brilliant. You have such a mastery of political terminology. Or, more specifically, you know how to say two political terms that you heard recently.
This 'MOishe' guy who called in is an idiot!
He does not know what Socialism is!.
There are things that are socialist in our country -
Bailing out and giving tax dollars to corporations IS Socialism.
As Andrea has correctly pointed out, the overwhelming majority of people in this country are VERY IGNORANT. EVEN when they have a college education!
This person on the phone has no idea what he is talking about. The bailout, hello! Government buying banks is socialism. Most socialised medicine does not have people standing in lines. I have lived in Europe, and frankly, I like not having $2500 deductables and insurance companies telling me they won't pay for my $100,000 cancer meds. he didn't even know what marxism is. marx actually advocated no government, and the people share in production, not the elite few, like we do now.
Republican Definition of Socialism:
Socialism is when you give money to middle class people. If you give money to Wall Street crooks or Automobile Mfg. nitwits, it's not Socialism.
Good grief. Any mention of government involvement and it's immediately "socialism". Ironic -- given that the government now effectively "owns" or controls the banking sector...
Any the comments from one listener that the UK and Canada are backing away from government healthcare are completely inaccurate. They want the NHS (in Britain) and the provincial health plans in Canada to work more efficiently. Ironically, the most efficient (providing most access to most people for the lowest per capita cost) is in Canada. But horrors -- the government runs it. Ergo it is evil. More fear of words -- along the same lines as the fear of "liberals" and "feminism".
That growth? Who has faired well by it and who has not? Think about the outcome of the free market. The middle ground has it's problems but it works...Social Democracy, a la Europe. Yes you pay high taxes but you get healthcare, education, retirement security, inter alia, and you don't get the extra bill for it. It's paid for in your high taxes.
4 days before an important election and you can see there are still so many "low information" - or as I call them, ignorant, voters. I am hearing - I have made up my mind, don't confuse me with facts.
C'mon! Taxation redistributes wealth. That's what they do. The home mortgage deduction redistributes wealth from the renter to the homeowner. Over the past 20 years, wealth has been distributed from the middle class to the wealthier. So-called corporate welfare redistributes wealth to large businesses. Tipping the balance in a different direction is not socialism; it is an expression of the body politic's preferences at a point in time.
This is hysterical ... the wingnuts are melting down. He's a socialist! He's a Muslim! He'll wreck the country!
What's missing is the observation that John McCain is Bob Dole. He's next in line according to the GOP, so put him up. He has no ideas except that military action is the solution to everything.
red baiting is beneath mccain
'americans' are scared he's stoking the fear.
last caller: politics is war
You know who introduced progressive taxation to the United States? Teddy Roosevelt. Pinko.
Both the "socialist" caller missed the point: Obama's programs follow neither the social democrat model employed in Europe, or the classic "control the means and distribution of production" model of socialism. Obama is not a socialist, let alone a marxist, who would believe in a takeover of the means of production and distribution by workers.
Obama is proposing a national health insurance plan that would provide an option for those who were not happy with or could not buy health insurance on their own. He is proposing a return to Clinton-era tax levels, i.e., a rollback of the policies that permitted the Republican party to look the Clinton budget surplus.
We have had a progressive tax in this country for a hundred years. The issue is whether the tax has gotten out of balance -- which it has -- and needs to be fixed.
Unfortunately, the man who phoned to say that he understood socialism doesn't appear to understand much more than the empty platitudes that he's hearing on Fox News and from the McCain Palin camp. He wasn't even able to remember the simple quotation from Marx-- not a convincing argument that he "understands" socialism.
Number one lie from the hypercapitalism crowd: that England is trying to "get away from" the National Health system. That system has almost universal support-- even from the Tories. Listen to BBC for about 5 minutes.
Capitalism can't survive without socialist controls on its excesses, period.
I really don't understand this socialism argument. What really disturbs me is ow the Republicans can easily switch to nasty nasty rhetoric. My question is if it acceptable to call Democrats Socialists with all of its implications in the United States (i.e. McCarthyism) , is it acceptable to call Republican's Fascists, particularly when Sarah Palin states that small-town America is the "real America." I doubt that anyone, Republicans or Democrats would find that reasonable.
Hey Brian
How about inviting an actual socialist on to your program to to discuss what socialism is---and is not. Hell, put that person on with a capitalist, and let them hash out the variations of capitalism and socialism.
Caller: GET OVER IT! "Obama was disrespectful to Hillary and Hillary supporters"??? When? Where? And he was not remotely as disrespectful to Hillary or her voters as Hillary (and Bill) were to him, or as her supporters were to Obama and his supporters, or continue to be to this day.
As great as Hillary was (and I think she was and is a great person and candidate), there is no question who took the low road -- and who LOST.
Move on.
Please Brian, no more tricks. These randomly sampled completed uninformed yet strongly opinionated Americans have scared me silly. Treats, please!
Typos fixed; sorry!
Both the "socialist" callers missed the point: Obama's programs follow neither the social democrat model employed in Europe, nor the classic "control the means and distribution of production" model of socialism. Obama is not a socialist, let alone a marxist, the latter of whom would advocate a takeover by workers of the means and distribution of production.
Obama is proposing a national health insurance plan that would provide an option for those who were not happy with or could not buy health insurance on their own. He is proposing a return to Clinton-era tax levels, i.e., a rollback of the policies that permitted the Republican party to loot the Clinton budget surplus.
We have had a progressive tax in this country for a hundred years. The issue is whether the tax has gotten out of balance -- which it has -- and needs to be fixed.
Meredith - you need to get over the hurt and vote for Obama. Obama didn't treat Hillary supporters with respect???!! What are you talking about? You guys are still sore that the Clintons couldn't beat a newbie. And if you don't vote for him, then you're just being petty. Once R v W is overturned, maybe then you'll regret your views, because that's what a McCain-Palin presidency will be about.
In response to the caller that suggested that Canada and the UK is looking to move away from a nationalized health care system: this is completely untrue.
In fact, I would say that the vast majority of Canadians, on both the left and the right, value our health care system as a part of our identity as Canadians.
No matter how long the wait for a doctor may be, it's still better than not being able to AFFORD to survive. To me, that's worth a of couple percentage points in taxation and I'm glad to finally see murmurings in your country about adopting a similar sort of social responsibility.
Jesso, I couldn't agree more. It was Hilary who got ugly and nasty and petulant. She did not "deserve" to get the nomination, as smart and competent as she is, although people seemed to think that she did. There's no such thing as "deserve."
In the end, she and Bill have risen above, as I always knew they would. But in the moment of desperation, the two of them pulled out the race card and don't forget the unforgiveable reference to Bobby Kennedy being assassinated-- you can't get lower than that.
It's clear either Brian Leher, his producers/call screeners, or just WNYC in general loves these Hillary supporters. Their hyperbolic views on the primaries are never challenged, outright lies that have been debunked time and time again are never corrected, and Hillary supporters are never challenged on the fact that many say they voted for Senator Clinton only because it was "her time" or any woman's time. I think WNYC listeners need to just get over it and accept this is the political position this station has chosen.
Moisha has no idea what he is talking about.
At least use Wiki before calling a show.
Ignorance begets ignorance (McCain).
I do hope that Obama is a real socialits - maybe he can force ALL media outlets (Cable, TV, Radio) to provide a 1/2 hour of real education to our IGNORANT electorate in exchange for their operating licenses.
This might help to reduce intelligence deficit in the country and my produce a more informed electorate who will not be taking by the demagogues who currently control our country
socialism = rich modern blue states giving subsidizes to poor 3rd world 19th century red states.
And really! Can the call screeners at least see if a caller calling to say they are anti-Socialist have some inkling of an idea what the word means. I think that’s called screening.
maybe AFTER the election BL should have a show topic - what is socialism.
this is a new era?
which states is your money being redistributed to?
http://www.infoplease.com/images/07alm_fedexpendtrs.gif
We are currently experiencing a form of socialism with the wall street and GM bailouts. One thing the Republicans have discovered during elections, is to put a "scary" label on something most people don't understand and they will vote for you. In reality, most people in the US would benefit from a form of "socialism" - healthcare, social security, education benefits. The republican party platform wants to do away with any "social" benefits that now exist in the government, except for corporate welfare.
Thank you "Voter from Brooklyn" for posting 28. I totally agree. That attitude surpressed my giving to WNYC this year.
A few of the points brought up by callers on Socialism and health care, not to mention the McCain campaign are incredibly confused as to what socialism is and what universal health care would mean.
I believe Dennis Kucinich was the only candidate with a platform offering true universal health care, similar to that of Canada or much of Europe. The biggest fear I hear related to this is that somehow it suggests the elimination of privatized health care...which it doesn't. it simply offers the option/guarantee of health care but you could STILL go through a private provider, which i'm sure everyone opposing such a system would do. USPS vs Fed Ex?
Stephen Colbert recently invited the ACTUAL socialist party candidate for president on his show a few days ago to clear up the Obama/socialism debate, an interesting perspective. It would be nice to see a similar interview conducted outside of a satirical context. People seem to not really understand what Socialism is, they only remember Macarthyism. socialism doesn't mean the end of capitalism, nor the end of democracy. At the same time, capitalism and democracy are not one in the same.
I'd like to see possibly an extra issue on the show where this was all explained since it seems like the conversations never get far past some struggled marxist quote from the accusing party and the comment that the concept of socialism is misconstrued from the defense.
SOCIALISM PART 1
Dangerous creeping socialism in the US??? If Obama is socialist, let me introduce you to just a few other socialist institutions:
+ Medicare. Yes....you will use "socialized medicine" when you retire and you will thank God, the gods, LBJ's ghost...whatever that you have it. By the way, medicare benefits us pre-retirees because we don't have to subsidize (or at least reduces) our elderly parents' medical care.
+ Mortgage interest tax deduction for homeowners.
+ Social Security. Try writing a monthly check to your parents for the next 30 years and see if you have enough left over for that new I-phone.
+ Government backing of 30 year fixed rate mortgages.
Thess two 1930's era "socialist" government intrusions into "the marketplace" are the backbone of the US's middle class home ownership revolution for the past 80 years.
+ National Park System
+ National Highway System
+ FDA, SEC, USDA, US Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard.
+ The police and fire departments (socialized law enforcement and first responders). Often early NYC "free market" fire departments used to be criminal gangs.
+ Intrusive government manifestos like: the Uniform Commercial Code, FEMA guidelines for flood control, numerous building and fire codes.
I've made my point. If you don't like laws and government...move to Afghanistan.
To Meredith, the Hillary supporter who feels she was insulted by Obama and therefore cannot vote for him: Meredith, I think I know how you feel. I am an Obama supporter who was so mad when I felt that Hillary Clinton was being disrespectful to Barack Obama that I threatened not to vote for her if she got the nomination. I am happy to say that I quickly came to my senses and that Hillary and Bill's expressions of support for Obama have eased the ill will I had for them towards the end of primary season. Please see if you can bring yourself to vote for Obama, even if only because Hillary is now urging you to do so....just think how you would feel if Hillary had won the nomination but lost to McCain because the Obama supporters couldn't get over their anger.
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