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Post-Debate Coverage
Thursday, October 16, 2008
WNYC Political Director Andrea Bernstein and Ray Suarez, senior correspondent at The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, talk about last night's presidential debate.
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and who is this joe the Plummer and where do I know him from?
Mccain IS the old boy network!!!!!!
pre-debate, I was driving so perhaps I was distracted, but did Lehrer refer to McCain & Obama as the war hero and the black guy in yesterday's segment? I checked all the comments and didn't see a mention of it.
Democracy Now is opinion?
Biggest outrage- Bob Schieffer’s nutty assertion that calling McCain "erratic" is equivalent to calling Obama a "terrorist sympathizer". What alternate universe is Schieffer living in?
McCain’s stupendous hypocrisy leaves me breathless.
1) I don’t care about Ayers but you need to explain the exact nature of your relationship with him.
2) Obama’s refusal to commit to townhall debates created a negative climate. If Obama had agreed to 10 townhall debates, then Palin wouldn’t have accused him of palling around with terrorists?
3) ACORN poses a grave threat to our democracy. McCain was the keynote speaker at an ACORN-sponsored Immigration Rally in Miami in 2006. (I think Al Qaeda is a bigger threat to our democracy than ACORN).
(Source: ACORN to McCain: Have You Lost That Loving Feeling?, Oct. 13, 2008, http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/acorn-mccain-have-you-lost/story.aspx?guid=%7B9DF1C9E0-F0BA-4509-B4EC-AF741171DEAC%7D&dist=hppr)
4) I’ll never question my opponent’s patriotism, but he’d rather lose a war than lose an election.
5) I’ll always put my country first and Sarah Palin will make a great VP.
Trying to cram all domestic issues into 1 90-min debate is like trying to pour 15 lbs of salt into a 3 lb bag. It’s the ultimate dumbing down of America.
If voters want more from the candidates, they should demand more from the CPD by urging them to adopt a full-length, unabridged debate schedule.
McCain’s request for a series of townhall debates was pure baloney. I want the candidates questioned by the best and brightest minds in our nation not by Joe and Jane Sixpack. I want them questioned by panels of experts from liberal and conservative think tanks.
Instead of 1 90-min domestic policy debate, hold 7 single issue 3-hr debates with 6-7 min to answer questions:
1st debate – Taxation, Govt Spending, Debt and Deficit, and all other economic issues
2nd debate – Energy and the Environment
3rd debate – Healthcare
4th debate – Science and Technology Policy
5th debate – Education
6th debate – Immigration
7th debate – Executive Privilege, Unitary Executive, Federalism, Judicial Appointments, Congressional oversight, other general governance issues, etc.
Seth, really? Seven three hour debates? I spaced out before I got to the end of your post!
But seriously, there has got to be a better middle ground between the sound-bite fests and three hours of parsing policy. In the grand scheme of things, last night was pretty good. For instance, Obama was able to directly combat the Ayers sound bites with actual information and insight.
#5 Roger,
I'm willing to bet that most sports fans easily spend more than 21 hrs watching their favorite baseball, football, or basketball team during their respective seasons. If they can spend that much time watching their favorite sports teams they should be willing to spend about 20 hrs to get adequate info to select the leader of the free world.
Seth, please apologize for calling plumbers jerks. Plumbers are people too.
@7 seth
Joe the Plumber is the archetype for the small business owner, those who are the engine of job growth in the country.
Joe, like others, are rightly worried about Obama's socialist, distributionist attitudes.
Oh, and it is a complete lie that keeps getting repeated here about Obama's 95% tax cut baloney! Nearly HALF of Americans pay NO FEDERAL TAX; You cannot give a tax cut to people WHO DON'T PAY -- Obama is going to give them a refundable tax credit...AKA a WEALTH TRANSFER.
I lost it everytime Obama said "Buffet" -- it was one of those "my-dad-is-tougher-than-your-dad" comments. Buffet is not a plan!
I also liked the obfuscation about Ayers...
I look forward to 4 -- or 8 years -- of this.
Moderators:
Would you let anyone on this list call Obama a moron like Maya did in post 10? Probably not. Calling Repulbicans names is cool and snarky, but call Obama the same name and the moderators swoop in to protect liberal listeners. Moderators = Obama lovers. Quick moderators, delete this post before your listeners find out that it is possible to think differently.
Inquiring Minds:
Don't you know it is racist to suggest that Obama has done anything wrong? Hanging out with terrorists like Ayers must be good because it is Obama. Say otherwise, and the old "conservative" label gets taped over you. Let me give you a lesson on Obama. He can do no wrong - this must have something to do with white guilt. He attended a church for 20 years that preached racism, but that must be cool, because it is Obama. He started his political career holding hands with a US born terrorist, but that must be cool too because it is Obama. And what a great excuse, Obama was only a child when Ayers was actively killing Americans, and Obama can't be expected to read a book or newspaper. Asking Obama to read or watch the news is racist. Asking Obama not hang out with a terrorist is also racist.
#9, pity Mr. Archetype can't be bothered to register to vote.
seth,
I like your idea about debates -- I actually thought last night's was the most substantive but we could do still better.
Inquiring Minds:
You should amend that to say that nearly half of Americans pay no federal *income* tax, a key point. The payroll taxes that everyone pays are the most regressive taxes and fall as a proprotionally heavier burden on low-income people.
Peter and Mary,
I agree, I think there is a lot of name calling on these boards of people who do not toe the Dem party line. Perhaps people are reacting to the name calling they hear elsewhere, however, if we want to think of ourselves as the good guys we should act more like it.
#8 Peter
I have nothing against plumbers. We couldn't get along without them. Joe the plumber represents Joe, he doesn't represent every plumber in America.
Mary,
Did the Joe that was interviewed in Toledo, OH say that he was not registered?
Seth,
So what you are saying Seth is that McCain's idea to go around the country debating Obama several times a week for the past three months was actually a good idea? Shame Obama is scared of such depth and turned McCain down. Obama has 20 years to spend praying in a racist church, but can't find the time to debate McCain properly. For once we agree Seth, Obama did something wrong. So, you don't have to apologize Seth for that point, but please apologize for everything else you say because we tend to disagree.
Note to moderators: please delete this post to make it painfully clear just how far in the Obama camp you really are.
Seth,
Please apologize for your support of Obama.
Moderators: Please delete this post to prove that only people on the left get to say silly things. This board must be fair and civil - towards liberals. Field day on the McCain supporters. I can't even believe I am still typing, doesn't WNYC have a hand than can reach out of my computer and stop any thought that is not supportive of Obama?
Seth, keep writing. I enjoy the double standard you represent on these boards.
Regardless of who wins on Election Day, we'll still be left with a horrible system for choosing our President.
Dem and Repub prez nominees should be chosen by popular vote not be delegate totals and the gen election winner should be chosen by popular vote and not by electoral vote.
The public must change this unfair and undemocratic process.
What I find depressing is that neither of them is really credible on the economy. They both have big plans for new spending and the savings that they claim, I don't think will materialize. Whle IT will help in delivering better quality in health care, a worthy goal, most research shows that it will not yield a lot of savings. And the idea that you can balance the budget by eliminating earmarks is absurd. As is the idea that you can provide a tax cut to "95%" of Americans ( a dubious figure) and spend $150 billion on infrastructure, $65 billion on health care etc., etc.
They are both lightweights on health care policy. While I prefer the Obama plan largely because I don't think we should tax employer provided benefits until we have a better alternative, and because a $5,000 tax credit will not begin to cover it, both guys are talking through their hats when it comes to controlling costs. If we don't get a handle on the 6-12% health care inflation along with other reforms that we all want, we will rapidly run out of money and will.
#19 Peter
McCain was right about holding more debates but wrong about having ordinary voters asking the questions at each debate. The avg voter doesn't have the expertise to ask the most informed questions. 2 or 3 townhall debates is fine but I'd like more debates where think tank experts pose the questions.
seth,
I agree with you on #21 to some extent, however, I worry about unintended consequences. If we just do popular vote in the gen election then they will only spend time in CA, NY, IL and TX, not a great alternative to what we have now. I would like to see an elimination of the senators in the electoral count. That would reduce states like SD to one vote. There would still be more weight per voter to smaller states, but that would be moderated.
I would also, in the primaries prefer to scrap the caucuses and see how that goes before we despense with delegates altogether.
Good morning, mc,
According to the Daily Beast. He's been interviewed by everyone who could get a mic in front of him, so I'm assuming it's credible. And besides, if he's been putting in 10-hour days, seven days a week, as Mc Cain claims, who has the time to register?
mc,
You're justified in having reservations about Obama.
The tipping point question should be the 3am phone call scenario.
The thought of McCain or Palin dealing with a 3am phone call sends a cold chill down my spine.
I have no faith in the ability of McCain or Palin to successfully handle such a crisis.
On the whole Joe the Plumber thing-- this seems like a reiteration of the old right-wing canard that moving into a higher tax bracket somehow discourages people from wanting to make more money. So let me get this straight, Joe wouldn't want to start making more than $250,000 per year because income over that amount would be taxed at a higher marginal rate by an Obama administration? Seriously?
Why "Joe the Plumber" matters:
Just the other day I had a small business owner -- entrepreneur -- sitting in my living room talking about the economy and his business. He was wondering whether he should EXPAND or not, that is, lease new space, buy fixtures, and hire more people.
With stocks crashing, super-low interest rates, etc. people with "risk capital" aren't earning anything on their money. There is an ENORMOUS amount of capital sitting on the sidelines....
It is essential, if we are going to "regrow" this economy that we don't have anti-business, high-tax, high-regulations going forward.
Otherwise, a whole cadre of entrepreneurs -- aged 40 and 50 something -- are just going to sit it out and protect their ASSETS.
These people create the jobs that we all need --whether that worker votes Democratic or Republican.
b.t.w. In my experience, these small business owners are not IDEOLOGUES, they are MODERATES.
Peter and Inquiring Minds,
By Election Day, Joe the Plumber will either have a book deal, a radio show, a reality tv show, or he'll be a very rich plumber because someone will give him a few hundred thousand dollars to grow his business.
There is a lot going on here, and I'd like to thrown in my two cents, if I may. First of all, 95% of people under 250,000 getting a tax cut is ridiculous. Inquiring Minds above is right, a boatload of people don't make enough money to pay taxes (although I think 50% is kinda high). People don't realise, that people who are that poor are not entitled to tax cuts or credits. The people who need it most. people only pay payroll taxes on the first $102,000. So the rich get the rest of their income tax free after Fica. Don't forget, capital gains and estate taxes are not subject to payroll taxes. if they paid their fair share, that's billions of dollars to pay the debt, health care, education... rich people use social Security and schools too you know. Only $18 mil in the budget are earmarks, a drop in the bucket. Cutting them and saying you're fiscally responsible is a laugh. Come on, Obama a terrorist? Are you really serious? Reagan supported terrorists and drug dealers. Remember Iran-Contra, Noreaga, and teaming with bin-Laden in Afganistan? What about McCain's associaion with that crook Charles Keating? He got $3 billion from from the government gave $115,000 to mcmcain, his wife gave Keating $355,000 for a mall, and took turns on his private jet. Please.
I wonder which Plumber McCain likes more: This guy Joe Wurzelbacher or G. Gordon Liddy? I know Joe got 21+ shoutouts, but the G-Man, convicted watergate fellon, gave McCain at least $1000. (from: http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/donor_lookup.php?name=Liddy )
Hey Brian,
I watched the debate last night with the liveblog open... it was great to chat with you and the rest of the WNYC crew! Also, it was interesting when John O'Keefe (sp?) told us the method by which comments were chosen: he and an assistant were trying to process 100 posts a minute... and yet, the dialogue was much more civilized than it looks to be so far here. Anyway, great job last night, and thanks for the updates on the game!
My question for you and Andrea: did anyone notice McCain's Palin-esque moment towards the beginning of the debate when Schieffer asked McCain if he'd like to respond directly to Obama's statements on the economy, and McCain said "No"? Take that, you media-filtering Bob Schieffer!
Keep up the awesome work, and I can't wait for this week's Digesting Politics!
yes -- lumping in "transplants" with cosmetic surgery...
some commentators (most notably on MSNBC, Matthews and Rachel Maddow) were saying McCain's belitting women's "health" and the way he held up his fingers to put it in quotes will KILL him (Matthew's word) in suburban areas, with independent women, etc.. Brian, could you and your guest(s) pls comment on this...
Oh excuuuuuuuuuse me, Peter! Let me rephrase. I'm sure McCain meant "implants" but honestly...what an endearing, bumbling old man. How charming. Isn't he cute?
Is it fair to say that McCain supporters (Inquiring minds, Peter) are asserting that the media is against McCain?
I think the bigger problem is that McCain is against McCain. He campaign sign onto the Rove tactic and its backfiring against someone like Obama who, like most Americans, sees through its shallow vale of fear and lies. This is not the McCain we once knew.
Josh (31)- I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, but earmarks are $18 BILLION, not million. (significantly larger, but still comparatively minuscule.)
woops, you're right #37. it was just a typo.
Peter, Inquiring Minds,
Don't despair! The dreaded liberal media that you both love to hate will do their best to bloody up Obama in the next 19 days to give McCain a fighting chance. It's not in their financial interest to have a blowout. They'll pull out all the stops to bring Obama's poll numbers down and push McCain's poll numbers up.
mccain is a walking talking cliche! he is disrespectful and rude. You would think by now that he has learned Senator Obama's wife name! Still trying to distract us with rhetoric and lies. I think he has alzheimers already.
I believe Joe (blow) the plumber knew hwo he was voting for when he decided to confront Sen. Obama you can tell by all the sweat on his forehead, and the republicans used this theme to exploit in a desperate attempt to sway ignorant voters who will be fooled by this desperate measure I dont know any plumbers even in NYC that make over $250.000 a year, Give us a break!
#39
good point. totally agree.
Joe the freakin' Plumber was a plant so that mccain would have something to talk about last night just in cast the moderator didnt bring up the ayers or acorn slander. How did he know about that conversation anyway??? Not even registered to vote..what a laugh!
Come on, people, I'm so sick of "liberal media". Let me remind you, that it was the media who went after Bill clinton for lying about sex, but not after Bush for a WAR. Both the IAEA and UN gave Hussein a "B" for cooperating. The Times sat on the eavesdropping story for a year, then apologised for it, but refused to let it be used in a movie. Now let's talk about radio. The "liberal media" does not have anything close to Limbaugh or Dr. Laura. And Fox News, please. O'Reilly is the hightest rated news show in the county. If the media is so liberal, why is it it all owned by corporations, like republican stalwart Rupert merdiock and Mort zuckerman. Let me remind you that the New york Post and Daily news, both conservative papers, kick the Times' ass in circulation.
I think McCain is confused about Sarah Palin's baby. He kept mentioned Autism, but her baby has Down's Syndrome.
Sorry, but Joe the P. IS registered to vote, as a Repub, and voted in the primary, according to the Toledo Blade (his hometown paper)
Spot on Laura, autism down syndrome all the same to mccain b/c palin is also another failed campaign strategy! He knows zero about either illness.
This debate was a joke, How any of those two candidates appeal to anybody, I have no idea. The best example of this, is when they were asked what programs were they going to cut because of the increasing deficit, and guess not not a straight answer from both of them. Good luck people,
people get the government they deserve.
Yeah Josh! What does Bill Clinton's issues have to do with the price of tea in china? He is a totally different human being, Senator Obama is another.
This fear mongering around the label of "socialist" is a decoy (based on remnants of cold war fear) used by the republicans to obscure the fact that their policies have always favored the rich. Why are we not talking more about the war and the financial black hole that it has burdened this country with. What justifies spending trillions on a war while children still have no healthcare, while our public schools are failing and while our prisons are becoming virtual criminal training camps. If we really want to fear a centralized "socialist state" then why are we not more weary of handing the Bush administaration so much power by greatly expanding the role of the executive office? Doesn't Cheney's notion of such a powerful executive branch resemble Communist Soviet policy or Maoist China more than the egalitarian progressive policies of the Democratic Party? What does Socialist mean actually? Does it mean spending OUR tax dollars on educating OUR children? Giving the people healthcare? Is it more "free" more "democratic" to hand huge checks to banks and corporations? to create the biggest prison system in the world and a giant failing war machine?
Sure Brian, there seems to be a disconnect b/c mccain and his people keep bringing up the same old arguments that he has answered to before! A person can get weary defending against the same old issues! mccain refuses to move forward and address the economy for more than 10 seconds!
Obama did not appear "irritated," as you assert.
He appeared unflappable and bemused, in the face of McCain, who evidently thought he had come to play pinata -- blindfolded, swinging wildly, but never landing a punch.
some of these comments are too long!
# 35 , Maya
LOL! That's great!:)
Character attacks and that smirk are distractions!
Of course it's all a code for race!! I'm surprised that Bill Ayres hasn't launched a law suit against these guys for defamation of character.
mc [25],
have you heard either candidate address specificaly urban issues (i.e. mass transit, etc.)in this campaign? in any national campaign? you won't until our votes count as much as someone in iowa or nabraska's.
until then we will continue to pay farmers not to plant crops, and subsidize 24/7 air conditioning in nevada, while getting nothing from the feds until the next time we take a hit for the good ol' usa.
Chris @ #46 then what the heck is he doing having a conversation, pleading his case to Senator Obama?
Here's a link to the full encounter with Obama and Joe Wurzelbacher, the plumber. It's much ado about nothing. At most Joe's taxes would go up $800 this year and he probably benefit more from Obama's breaks for small business.
It's hardly the crushing of the American Dream McCain portrays.
http://www.youtube.com/v/ElPBxiVxVEw&hl=en&fs=1
Hi,
What I want to know from McCain is what money will be used to buy up the bad mortgages? Taxes? I'd like to know with what money he plans to do anything with?
Thanks for comments.
The Ayers thing IS racially charged. Note the plurality when Palin says, "palling around with terrorists." It may be a stretch, but to many McCain-Palin supporters, terrorist(s) = Muslim. It's sad, but if McCain-Palin meant to draw the distinction, they fell far short.
I'm having withdrawal symptoms with no more debates to watch.
Could the CPD have chosen 3 worse moderators than Lehrer, Brokaw, or Schieffer? These guys were pathetic. Freshmen high school students couldn't have done any worse.
Blah, blah, blah...
Everyone complains about the debates,
"Let's change the debates!"
"We should have more than 3 debates for the first time in 48 years because McCain said so!"
Everyone complains about the content and repetitive talking point nature of the debates. They are that way because, unfortunately, a vast number of Americans cannot, will not or are too lazy to make an honest effort to inform themselves on the policies of the candidates. The information is out there, you can supplement the debates by paying attention, remembering what mattered to you and doing some research regarding such matters.
Or you could be like Joe the Plumber and expect the candidates to personally explain themselves to you regarding your specific situation which is impossible.
Or you could just parrot talking points, exaggerations and rumors which is the domain of the super-lazy.
@#50 Gramsci
Thanks for you comment. These are questions which I find more relevant than anything i've heard on the campaign trail so far.
[53] the truth
word!
I'm happy the debates are over. I want Obama to be elected already so we can get on without all the drama.
They didn't say anything new last night.
@48,
Thank you for your blessing. It means so much to us that you took the time to float down and let us "people" know that even though you know that we're all wasting our time that you wish us luck all the same.
How noble of you...
Obama's spent more money on negative ads more than anyone EVER?! EVER?! More than Ulysses S. Grant spent on smear handbills? More than Millard Fillmore spent on negative sandwich board sign men? More than Rutherford B. Hayes spent on men with bullhorns!?
Well Zak #70, I guess he should know, after all he was there!
#65 AWM from UWS,
I agree with your point about voters doing their homework beforehand but I think you're letting the CPD and the TV networks off too easily.
3 90-min debates is a joke when you consider the complexities of the problems the country faces and the enormous responsibilities that the President has.
The Bill Ayers / Barack Obama relationship has existed and it should have been more meaningfully explored by the news media. Two interesting articles on the subject; one is the Bill Ayers speech in Venezuala in 11/06 and the other a more recent op-ed piece.
http://billayers.wordpress.com/2006/11/
http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon1006ss.html
don't for get Thomas Jefferson said John Adams was a hermaphrodite
Looking at the video, Joe the P! Smiling and shaking hands with the Senator. Gets on a phone interview with Fox News and slams Senator Obama, coward, Oh I wasn't star struck he says..yeah whatever! A plant like I said.
Senator Obama was so gracious, he even told the man, even if I don't get your vote I will be working hard on your behalf. I am done with the Joe the P topic!
Is it true that when discussing nuclear energy McCain said, "Senator Obama is concerned about safety" as if this is a bad thing.
@70
Zak,
If obama has spent so much on "negative adds" why dont i ever see them? I dont watch tv that much so I dont see any adds first hand, but the "negative adds" I do see being reported on come from McCains camp.
please explain......
@75 Lew Monetti: What does this have to do with Obama? Nothing.
He holds left wing views, with do not resonate with many Americans. As do many teachers, social services workers etc. You will find plenty of right wing views which do not resonate with many Americans coming from talk radio and these to represent a fringe. Is McCain responsible for these?
Are you responsible for the actions of people you know through association? Does everyone you associate share your view on everything? Look in the mirror before you accuse.
It is correct, Senator Obama told him face to face the first $250k will be cut 50%.
ich bin ein Plumber!
A few comments have been edited or removed for violating the WNYC posting policy. Remember to keep your comments civil, on topic, and productive to the discussion taking place on the air.
Ik ben een Plumber
HJS #83 - I don't know what that means but right on!
LOL
#83, hjs
good one
but who really is Joe Wurzelbacher?
@87 Drora: The free market works well for craftsmen, when eveyone else in encouraged into the corporate education machine. There is a UK TV-show "Posh Plumbers" which shows their life, kind of like "Cribs" - you'll see it on you-tube! Good for them, I say.
@ #66 SF in nyc: thanks!
Ohh got it HJS! Good one, I was a little slow on the uptake, need lunch brb.
#80,
I was being sarcastic...pointing out that spending more money than anybody in history is a pretty meaningless statement. I don't feel that Obama has been as pervasively negative as McCain.
As for why you haven't seen them, we're not exactly an important market for either campaign: Obama knows he has New York; McCain knows he doesn't stand a chance in New York.
74 Seth,
I don't have any control over the media. If I stood between them and a dollar to plead for more substantive reporting I would be trampled.
The severity and complexities of the problems our country faces should force its citizens to become better informed and, thus, more focused on the trajectory of the country. Iraq and the current financial crisis were not overnight phenomenon, they gained momentum over time in an environment where those with power had bad and selfish intentions and the public at large didn’t have a clue. People have to be proactive rather than reactive. They should enjoy accumulating knowledge in order to be prepared rather than acquiring the bare minimum necessary for a tit for tat spat.
Seth,
No, I don't think the media is liberal, I think they are simply in love with Obama. This is the same media that through the Clintons to the wolves how many times? No, not liberal, just in the Obama camp and blind to his many deep, deep flaws. Sure, McCain is pro life (and I am not), but I can respect the differences I have with McCain. But it shouldn't take republicans to remind us about Obama's racist preaching church and ties to an American terrorist. These are real issues that the media has all but ingored until the right screamed and kicked enough. Since when is attending a racist church for 20 years and running for president not a story?
Be good to your plumber. Society tends to break down when it can't flush.
Get ready for the dirtiest 3 weeks in the history of presidential elections!
Joe the Plumber will be co-hosting Brian's show next week and expect to see him on Leno, Letterman, Stewart, and Colbert before Election Day.
hey joe do your part. paying taxes is the price you pay to live in a modern nation.
Peter,
First of all reverend Wright did not preach racism. From what I have heard he is simply saying whats on the minds of many black people around this country. Yes there is still deep racism in this great country and there are great inequality and America has a troubled past around race issues.
So stop this story line Wright's preaching of racism. It makes me sick!
Last night in the debate there was a heated exchange over this whole thing about negative ads. Although I would never claim to be the first person to bring up the history of attacking one’s opponent “semi-slanderaly” (I just coined that term by the way), this is obviously nothing new. There was, however, a strange coincidence for me last night. After the debate I went to bed and read a chapter from a book that happened to be talking about the election of 1828. Using the attack advertisements of the day, pamphlets (so I guess they could be refered to as attack pams), Andrew Jackson’s people accused John Quincy Adams of acting as his maid’s pimp while in Russia years earlier. Instead of taking the high road and being the more refined party as they were considered, Adams’ crew claimed that Jackson’s mother was a prostitute. Just a bit of perspective I guess.
Peter,
That hasn't been a story since the rest of America woke up to the fact that 7.5 years of Bush have trashed our economy and trashed the reputation of our free market system. (And that's not even counting what Clinton signed into law, between repeal of Glass Steagal and the Commodities Futures Modernization Act.)
irresponsible lending, irresponsible borrowing. end of story. Anyone like myself (appraiser) who got in the way was swept aside. Continues today, new legislation (HVCC) will insure that it will continue in the future no matter what any politician says.
90 AWM
I have no faith in the majority of my fellow voters to educate themselves and do the research to make informed decisions. I wish the lazy, uninformed voters would just move to another country. It's annoying to see so many voters daydreaming or sleepwalking thru this campaign without lifting a finger to learn anything.
91 Peter from Sunset Park
The media's love affair with McCain predates it's affair with Obama. Obama has repudiated Wright's offensive remarks. What more do you expect him to say or do about Wright? Obama explained his ties to Ayers. What more will it take to satisfy you?
Mark my words, the media will push McCain across the finish line.
[86] Zak,
EXACTLY!
Guys. - McCain has close association with Terrorist groups -He supported the Contras in Nicaragua and the Death Squads in El Salvador.
Not only were thousands of innocent civilians killed and terrorized by these terrorist groups, Americans were targeted and assasinated. McCain in the 80's supported the terrorists who kidnapped, brutally raped and tortured American nuns in El Salvador. I think it is a closer association to terrorists when you support and rationalize these violent activities while Obama denounces Ayres while he was only 9YO and worked with him on education. NOT in promoting his terrorist activities as McCain did
#97
an excellent point
#97 Leo Queens,
This deserves closer scrutiny but I'm not holding my breath. The media doesn't have the guts to pursue this story.
#97
The media would actually be doing its job for once if they ever did investigate this.
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