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Thursday, October 02, 2008
WNYC's political director Andrea Bernstein previews tonight's debate between vice-presidential candidates Sarah Palin and Joe Biden.
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Who watched Sarah Palin in the gubernatorial debates in Alaska? The video is available at Andrew Sullivan's blog at 2:50 p.m on Oct 1.
Frighteningly, she rocks the house. Er, at least compared to the Couric episodes. But she really is lucid in these videos. Like an entirely different person and NOTABLY missing the hokey accent she's displayed since being picked. Actually, she's GREAT in these videos.
Which makes me wonder again: has she just been faking us out for the past few weeks with this dumb act?
How do you become a beauty pageant winner? By NOT psyching out your competition? This would be akin to Arnold Schwarzenegger psyching out the competition (in a different manner) in "Pumping Iron."
God, I hope I'm wrong, but I'm half convinced after watching the video that she's going to knock it out of the park tonight.
I am just wondering, what it would be like if Mccain were to win the white house, then have a problem, or die, the palin were to become the president....As she does not beleive in birth control, it is not unlikely that she might become " in the family way" As she would not have a abortion, I guess we would wind up with a issue, that I do not see working out well. I for one would not want a pregnant president.
Eva has correctly identified the issue of the day - hokey accents. Eva should start a club, East Coast Women Who Mock People Who Sound Different.
Bryan, i love your show. At least on this program i dont hear hatres and insults as i do when i listen the conservative radio talk shows. I am sick of them. I cant wait to watcht the debate. At the end of the road, i will vote FOR THE BEST PERSON and capable person to direct the coutnry from the wrong truck. I am a part of minority but that does not mean that i will vote for my representative if he-she is not qualified enough. Independently i vote for the most qualified person who can handle everybody's interests.
Bob, so what you are saying is that women should not be president unless they agree beforehand to have an abortion if becoming pregnant. I liked it better when Eva was talking about Palin’s accent. This board is going to be fun today. Palin rage is reaching an all time high. I hope Clinton will come out today and speak out against sexism again. Then everyone can say that being against sexism is really just a way for Clinton to support Palin. Oh my, I am giddy to keep reading the Palin rage.
eva,
I have not seen the video, so can't comment on how it looks or sounds. I have read some transcripts of what was said and honestly, it does not seem different from what I have seen and heard in the interviews. She speaks only in generalities, does not seem to grasp any issue in a complete way, and goes into liguistic "cul-de-sacs" as the NY Times said yesterday. I wonder if the bar was just set lower for a gubernatorial debate which by definition would not have that large a national audience.
Peter,
eva is not an East Coast woman.
Re: Clinton, I happen to think that if Hillary can make the case against sexism while making the case for Obama, she is way ahead of the rest of her party, IMHO.
bob k,
Sarah Palin is in her mid-40's. That means she is less and less likely to get pregnant, regardless of her lack of birth control
Biden could crush Palin in this debate. He won't be able to because then he'll be perceived as sexist. How the hell is that good for women? Isn't the whole point of women's equality supposed to be that they are, in fact, equal. And, that they can take the heat as well as men can. We're living with some nutty mix of chivalry and feminism which seems to me to be to the detriment of women and the world.
Tami,
And unfortunately, left-wing talk has not helped us in this dilemmma. Instead we have the Ed Schultz's of the world going on about "bimbo alerts." When the "good guys" start acting like the "bad guys," they lose their moral authority.
Women should be able to make their case on the merits. But, unfortunately the left has shown itself to be just as addicted to discussion of wardrobe and hairdos as the right. It makes it difficult to have an adult conversation. The picture of the McCain campaign howling sexism anytime anyone raises a legitimate question about Palin reminds me of Obama supporters (though not his campaign), howling racism anytime anyone did the same to him.
Tami, nice angle. So, if Biden loses, it is sexism, if Palin wins, it is sexism. Angle, angle, angle...
Most TV nowadays capitalizes on the gleeful anticipation of someone screwing up in one way or another.
The debate, sadly, follows that theme.
palindrone - (pa lin drone) 1. [a statement by Sarah Palin] when Sarah Palin says one thing, but means the complete opposite. e.g. "Country First" 2. when Sarah Palin misconstrues something she or Barack Obama does/says so as to be totally ass-backwards, and keeps repeating it, and repeating it, so on and so forth. e.g. "..and as for that Bridge-to-Nowhere, I said ""Thanks, but no-thanks.""
and Tami, withya' on [8]. unfortunately, the bush factor of setting the bar too low is both a factor of the Couric interviews, the repubs' campaign itself, and the media.
I do not consider my comment sexest, only an observation, of a possibility. I wonder why, everything that is perhaps not politic, be branded sexest.
Doesn't anyone find it disturbing that the country invests something like 2 years collectively vetting the number one candidate on the ticket, yet just a little more than a month and a single debate on the number 2, who in this case (if it should be Gov Palin), could very well become number 1 before the end of the term, given Sen McCain's age and health history?
ARE YOU GOING TO DISCUSS GWEN IFILL? Apparently, even the pretense of objectivity seems unnecessary.
QUESTION: Credible or not - the only journalist we could find to moderate this debate is one who wrote a favorable book about one of the candidates and stands to financially benefit from his election?
I have not watched the videos of the Alaska debates, but I can believe that Palin did well in them. I don't think she's a moron. I just think she has never had to engage in, or even think about, the larger national and global issues that she is now being asked about. But she probably is familiar enough with the specific set of local issues in Alaska to speak intelligently about them.
Brian you are such a snarky host
Mike,
Gwen Ifill's book is not about Obama but about the new generation of black civil rights activists. Obama is in the book and is the mot famous (right now) person in the book but the book is not about him.
That said, her not disclosing this to the debate commission upfront was a serious mistake.
Palin is hot!
unfortunately that might be the only reason some people will vote for her/and the old man. There should be an IQ test for voters.
Peter from Park Slope,
As someone who correctly predicted the Palin selection by McCain (see my suggested question that Brian should pose to rep Maloney at the Dem convention segment), even I am shocked by the lack of substance and evident ignorance displayed in her interview & comments. McCain can only hope that people continue to vote for the top of the ticket and not factor her in. The irony is that the Republicans have many knowledgeable, qualified & talented women that could have been selected but unfortunately for McCain several of them are what the hard core calls RINO's and would not have energized the base.
Anyway I have an hypothetical for anyone that knows: What would happen if a candidate of a major party dies in between the nominating convention and election day? Does the VP candidate automatically move to the top of the ticket? I seem to recall that the Dems had to reconvene and select another candidate when McGovern's running mate had to drop out when it was revealed that he had self committed to an institution in his past.
Dorky, what is the IQ of people who hate the elderly? Yes Dorky, by insulting old people, you are really cool. Now all you need to do is attend a racist church.
Did I just hear Andrea say that the first thing Joe Biden had to do at the debate was "not throw up" ? Do I just need to clean my ears?
We 'HOPE' the package is big enough - what a load!!!!
we are getting robbed...
@14 Lance
"he country invests something like 2 years collectively vetting the number one candidate on the ticket"
Baloney.
Obama has gotten a pass from the media and the intelligentsia.
Where are:
1. Occidental College records -- Not released
2. Columbia College records -- Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper -- 'not available'
4. Harvard College records -- Not released
5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released
6. Medical records -- Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- 'not available'
8. Law practice client list -- Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released
11. Harvard Law Review articles published -- None
12. University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None
13.Record of baptism -- Not released or 'not available'
14. Illinois State Senate records -- 'not available'
Makes you wonder how he would run the White House?!
Mike from JC,
Did you read the book, how do you know that it is favorable to Obama? I was under the impression that it had not yet been released.
MC from Bkly,
There were several public announcements about the impending book, e.g. from the publisher Doubleday, and there was a story in the conservative Washington Times. If the McCain/Palin campaign did not know about this then they were asleep at the switch.
Also judging from the description on Amazon and other sites it is not at all clear that the book is pro Obama but rather explores the theme that the old civil rights Black political leadership is giving way to a new brand of Black leadership, the most prominent persona of which is Barack Obama.
Rob from the Bronx,
I agree that it is not clear the book is pro-Obama. My understanding is that it is not about Obama at all.
It is also true that the McCain campaign should have known about it. I still think that Ifill should have disclosed it to the commission. Not doing so looks bad. It leaves her vulnerable to charges that she is hiding something.
@25 & @26
There are also numerous quotes from Ifill that are gushing with crush on Obama.
That and her sister, Sherrilyn Ifill, is a University of Maryland law professor who has taught voting rights, equal protection and restorative justice and is vehemently anti-McCain.
hmmmmm...
Maybe Biden will enlighten us about how FDR went on TV in 1929 to reassure the country. Or about having a wheelchair-bound representative "stand up."
The gaffs in this campaign are Biden's, not Sarah's.
Don't misunderestimate her. She's going to do great tonight!
tonight's debate "moderator", Gwen Ifill, got paid to write the Obama crush piece -- the cover story of Essence magazine -- entitled "The Obamas: Portrait of an American Family.” The magazine is clearly marked "Collector Edition". Nice.
hmmmm.....
Inquiring Minds #27,
Do you have any examples of those quotes?
Also, judging someone's impartiality based on her sister's political leanings is unfair.
That said, she is vulnerable to these charges and should have taken better care. I will be watching closely.
...sorry, Sherrilyn is Gwen's cousin, not sister, and is the author of -- among other things -- “The Relevance of Nooses and Lynching in the Age of Obama.”
An excerpt:
"The challenge for 2008 and beyond is for us to embrace the hope represented by the widespread acceptance of public figures like Barack Obama and Colin Powell, while continuing the hard work of sorting through the lingering effects and reality of white supremacy in our society."
hmmm.....
sooo... judging someone's impartiality on a cousin's leanings - still unfair.
Gwen Iffil on Michelle Obaba:
"A lot of people have never seen anything that looks like a Michelle Obama before. She's educated, she's beautiful, she's tall, she tells you what she thinks and they hope that she can tell a story about Barack Obama and about herself."
Gwen on Sarah Palin:
During the Republican National Convention, the PBS ombudsman fielded numerous complaints about Ifill's coverage of Sarah Palin's speech. Wrote Brian Meyers of Granby, Conn.:
"I was appalled by Gwen Ifill's commentary directly following Gov. Sarah Palin's speech. Her attitude was dismissive, and the look on her face was one of disgust. Clearly, she was agitated by what most critics view as a well-delivered speech. It is quite obvious that Ms. Ifill supports Obama, as she struggled to say anything redemptive about Gov. Palin's performance. I am disappointed in Ms. Ifill's complete disregard for journalistic objectivity."
examples abound.
Inquiring Minds,
Nice list. With the way the media has decided to group hug Obama, your list makes sense. But can you offer a source or two? If I share it with folks, I want to be able to cite more than the WNYC page.
Inquiring Minds,
If examples abound I would be interested in learning about them. Specific words that criticize her, not just the perception from a republican or otherwise that she did not praise her. I noticed that you were quite specific with her statement on Michelle Obama who is not on the ballot but declined to do the same for her comments on Palin who will be on the ballot. BTW her comments on MO seemed to be more about style etc. "she's beautiful, she's tall" which would not be unusual for a publication like Essence, and to state that someone is educated is not exactly gushing praise, I would file that under factual. I await your response with tangible examples.
Inquiring Minds,
I echo both Rob and Peter. Facial expressions and the like are subjective - I would be interested in what she actually said. Also, people writing in to an ombudsman are suspect sources.
I would also avoid conflating what someone says about Michelle Obama with what someone might say about her husband. I was similarly irritated by people who insisted on doing the same with Bill and Hillary.
Your two guests who commented on McCain's and Obama's Israel policy mentioned the actions of Goerge Bush Sr. in 1991 in holding up guarantees of Israel bonds which bonds were going to be used to resettle Russian Jews.
Those refugees were going to be resettled in occupied West Bank territory. This was a policy that many Americans and many Israelis thought was a mistake. Bush held up guarantees becuse he wanted an Israeli pledge that no money that was being guaranteed would go to new West Bank settlements. I was surprised that the Israeli governement and its American supporters made such a fuss. Money is fungible; if the government had given the pledge they could have used other money to resettle the refugees. The US would have had its fig leaf and the Israeli government could still have proceeded with the resettlement. To use this an example of "pressuring" is a stretch. No issues of survival were at stake. At "worst", this was a rare example of the US putting its own best interests first. Shame on upur guests!.
By the way, if memory serves, Bush eventually caved in and gave the guarantees with no commitment from the Israeli government. Since this tempest in a teacup, no American politician has had the nerve to just say "NO" to Israel over anything big or small.If you can't be brutally blunt with an ally what's the purpose of the alliance?
I'm an Obama supporter and a fan of Gwen Ifill but I think the Commission on Pres Debates screwed up bigtime by choosing her as a moderator.
It was incompetent and inexcusable for the CPD to not know of Ifill's book or to discount its importance.
The slightest appearance of a conflict of interest should have led to Ifill being disqualified, regardless of her reputation for fairness.
John McCain owes the nation an apology for choosing someone as absolutely clueless as Sarah Palin to be his running mate.
Wow Danny,
As I recall, Arafat and the Palestinian Authority said for years that American dollars would never go to fund terror, but of course, Arafat lied and used American and Israeli money to kill Jews and Palestinians.
But I am glad you posted, the liberal obsession with Israel while the rest of the world burns is fascinating.
Danny, perhaps your slogan should be, "Anything Jewish is bad, the rest of the world can burn while I focus on Israel." Kind of catchy huh. Or Danny, try this, "I obsess about Israel so I don't have to think about Ruwanda and Sudan."
Interviewer: Hey Danny, what do you think about human rights issues in Ruwanda, Sudan, Russia and UAE?
Danny: Israel is bad.
Interviewer: Danny, what about sex trafficking and slavery?
Danny: Israel is bad.
Interviewer: Danny, what do you think about the rights of women in Saudi Arabia?
Danny: Israel is bad.
The end.
Obama owes this country an apology for attending a racist church for 20 years.
Seth owes this board an apology for asking John McCain to apologize. Word.
Inquiring Minds,
Gwen Ifill's book is a valid reason for her to have not been chosen as moderator.
Sherrilyn Ifill is irrelevant and you got carried away by mentioning her.
Are we supposed to examine the family trees of every proposed moderator including half siblings and third cousins?
Seth, that didn't sound like an apology. Please apologize for direpsecting John McCain and disrespecting this board. Pleae pleae please Seth, apologize. Yeah, apologize.
Seth, pleaes apologize for supporting someone who attended a racist church for 20 years. When Obama calls for change, does that include not attenting a church that preaches racism. That is the kind of change a guy can really support. Did you apologize yet?
Seth, please apologize for the Democratic choice of a presidential candidate with no experience. You owe us an apology Seth because McCain could have only picked Palin because Obama has lowered the experience bar so much. So really, Obama chose Palin, I think you should apologize for that.
Peter from Park Slope,
Take a deep breath and exhale very slowly. Obama left his church and publicly reprimanded Jeremiah Wright. You need to stop grasping at straws.
John McCain disrepected his country by selecting an unqualified, unprepared Sarah Palin to be his running mate.
McCain could have chosen Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Kay Bailey Hutchison, Jodi Rell, or Christie Whitman if he wanted to pander to women voters. McCain lacked the guts to choose any of these women because they aren't social conservatives.
McCain wanted Lieberman or Ridge but folded like a cheap lawn chair before the religious right.
McCain failure to stand up to his own party shows that he lacks the backbone and intestinal fortitude required to be President.
Seth, we disagree, so you must apologize. Seth logic right? Seth, I have a different opinion from you. Take a deep breath and apolize for thinking differently. The Seth way. Seth, you funny.
Seth, I forogt to mention, after taking that deep breath, exhale, then apologize on the exhale. The Seth way. Word.
Seth, apologize for using a term like "intestinal fortitude." I think that term is silly, so you must apologize.
Has anyone watched the palin video yet?
mc,
I hear you on the actual content of what she said. What I found so bracing was not just the relative (relative!) lucidity of what she said, but the delivery. It was remarkable, but esp. after watching the couric videos.
She was totally unrecognizable not only from the nervous woman in the couric interviews, but also from the nastiness of her acceptance speech at the Republican convention. She seemed really straightforward and even and non-partisan in those gubernatorial debates.
I wonder how much she's been coached to wield this phony accent, and to play up her social conservatism. she apparently lacked the accent before she was picked by McCain? I have known many people from Alaska, and none of them talk like the post-vp-pick Palin, who essentially sounds like the female sherriff in "Fargo".
I am really nervous about this debate.
p.s.
the video I am talking about was posted yesterday on andrew sullivan's blog at 2:50 pm
It shows Palin debating before the Alaska governor's race.
full disclosure: I like reading Sullivan, but I disagree with much of his personal criticism of Palin. Then again, I disagree with Sullivan on a lot of things...
Seth,
I agree with you on Gwen Ifill. It is minor, but ANY question about her fairness gives the other side an advantage, and may well prevent her from asking Palin necessary questions.
Eva,
Sarah Palin is either the most brilliant actress of our time or the dumbest politician to ever run for Vice President.
I have a feeling she will expose herself as totally unqualified in tonight's debate.
Peter from Park Slope,
Get a grip and stop parroting the talking points of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. Free your mind and open yourself up to alternative and opposing viewpoints. You have a narrow, close-minded worldview and it's cramping your style.
Peter from Park Slope,
True war heroes don't feel the uncontrollable urge to remind you of their heroism every 5 minutes like John McCain.
#55,
Like Eisenhower, who never needed to remind anyone of his service.
I think that if McCain had kept this part of his life more private, there would be a tacit groundswell of support for him. What he went through is quite remarkable, but it's been overhyped, and the maverick qualities have been lost in the last few years as he's tried to bend himself to the establishment GOP.
But... I gotta pay my respects to one of the few, if not the only, Republican who spoke out against Abu Ghraib, loudly and consistently. And for the guy who pushed to open trade with Vietnam, because it was the right thing to do for them, and our whole involvement there was supposed to have been about helping the Vietnamese, not starving them out or bombing them to bits. But of course, I'm not voting for him, in large part because his earlier, salutary moves have become buried in his more recent pandering. Sad.
Peter from Park Slope,
Obama is not inexperienced, you may not like his experience or disagree with his opinions but that is another matter. Obama was a state senator and a college professor (Woodrow Wilson was also the latter). Moreover, his knowledge base is infinitely greater than Palin; which is where this whole discussion started, the video clips of her are embarrassing, it is obvious that she does not even understand the questions. It is one thing to have a different ideological position but is it too much to demand competence and intellect? As I stated in my earlier post, the GOP has a lot of great female talent and experience, but right now Ms. Palin needs some political maturity and more knowledge that a Cliff Notes sessions with McCain handlers can provide[My personal be1ief is that Obama should be compared to McCain and Biden to Palin]
Peter from Park Slope,
Pertaining to your demand that Seth apologize, I think you are on slippery ground. Many people (thankfully in my view) do not follow all the preaching or dictates of their pastors/priest, were it not so no Catholic would use birth control etc. I say it is a slippery road because religion can both inform and inspire great acts as well as poison the well. One just has to read the old testament prophetic tradition where the prophets (from Israel) were constant saying that the source of Israel's misfortunes were her own fault because of her wickedness. Incidentally this is the same tradition that Rev Wright was preaching from when he made those now famous comments and can be found in many churches throughout the US with less famous attendees. Obama it appears attended this church more for it's social & political connections, I am told that every one connected in Black Chicago attended that Church, to my knowledge he did not take an active role or did not serve in any capacity in the church. Maybe you have other information on this that I am unaware of.
Seth, please apologize for having thoughts that are different from mine. The Seth way.
Rob,
Obama = Palin - both have no experience. Get over your partisan politics.
Rob,
I see, so attending a racist church to get votes is coolio now. Wow, I hope the Democratic party doesn't share your tolerance of racism. But it looks like they do. Seth thinks you should apologize to me because your thoughts are different from mine. The Seth way. Seth is so funny, and so open minded. Seth lives by the apology. Word up to the Sethster.
Seth,
Wasn't it the Clintons who have been reminding us every five minutes how awesome McCain is?
Please apologize for being confused. The Sethster, liking to apology.
Seth, we are not exactly the same, apologize.
Seth,
look out! you really pissed off this peter character, he sounds a little bit like the "kenneth, what's the frequency" guy.
I'm seriously not watching this debate live on tv. Can't take it. I'll watch it later on the internet...
Peter from Park Slope,
You misunderstand me, attending a racist church is not OK and I did not state that it was, I ostensible stated Obama's reason for attending that church. Please note however after watching the Wright video and listening to some of the sermons I do not agree that the church is racist, however it is certainly not my cup of tea. I detected a lot of resentment for the plight of Black people who are the majority of attendees of the church and a lot of anger at the US for what the church views as misdeeds by their country. Again like the old testament it is a radical theology and like the prophets of the old testament people do not like it when there misdeeds are pointed out, therefore expect a lot of controversy. However, if this is indeed a Christian country as many conservatives are fond of saying then such sermons are to be expected. For example if Wright were railing against the "misdeeds" of homosexuals there would have been hardly any controversy, at least from the right. I have heard a lot of people criticize his GD America but very little discussion of the other content of his sermon.
Peter from Park Slope,
I also strongly disagree with you that Obama=Palin, the gulf could not be greater. She could not name a single Supreme Court decision that she disagreed with, or any periodical that informs her worldview. Obama is not the smoothest in interviews (unlike speeches) but I cannot accuse him of being ignorant or uninformed. Again you or I may disagree with some or in your case probably all of his positions, but he is quite knowledgeable and I can easily imagine him meeting with other world leaders and holding his own. The same cannot be said of Palin. I repeat, GOP has a large female talent pool, Palin is not representative of it, but she does appeal to the base. Sadly this does not demonstrate that McCain puts country first, actuarially speaking he has about a 15% chance of not surviving his first term and to risk putting the country in Palin's hand at this point would be reckless.
Congratulations to Gwen Ifill, who, despite legitimate concerns, did a fair and objective job of moderating tonight's debate.
Seems like one of the things that was not put in front of Sarah to read, was Greek myths. When asked by Gwen about what Palin considered her "Achillies Heel," Palin responded with all her and McCain's attributes. She didn't know the meaning of "Achilles Heel." Now that's scary!
Sara Palin's performance was a parced out broken up version of her 'stump' speech. Joe did a wonderful job of pointing out the reasons John McCain should not be President. Sara Palin comment about only being "on this job 5 weeks" speaks to her on reasons why she is not qualified.
what is your commentor talking about?! what people are looking for in a debate is for the candidates to answer the questions put forth period. refusing to answer and regurgitating party rhetoric is a waste of our time.
I'm surprised that no-one has noted how Sarah Palin's speech patterns changed during her comments, what basically amounts to a "tell" in Poker: When she was "folksy" (when her Alaskan inflection emerged, as a means of deflection) she was (literally)acting her role as "hockey-mom-maverick-outsider" (a character as real as the Easter Bunny); When she wasn't (folksy) she was obviously delivering her scripted responses - and when faced with unanticipated questions, she either fumbled around and/or just responded however she wanted.
Is it possible to nominate her for an Emmy?
For me, the big issue is not being talked about at all. It is the Supreme Court. These judges are with us for decades, long after the President who put them in is gone. We can not let McCain put more conservative judges in there. Bush says he is saving our freedoms. But the Republicans wlll choose judges who will likely limit our freedoms.
Aside from one caller on another talk show, nobody elsse seems to have picked up Palin's freudian slip. I don't remember the introductory phrases but she came out with . . . .it's time for McCai to leave (fraction of a second pause) - to LEAD.
When taken with her blooper on a previous show, when she referred to the ticket as the Palin/McCain team, her underlying feeling becomes quite apparent.
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