On Demand
Obama and Jackson
Thursday, July 10, 2008
Ta-Nehisi Coates, journalist and author of The Beautiful Struggle, and John McWhorter, senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, discuss Jesse Jackson's comments that Barack Obama talks down to black audiences.
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I think Obama has largely ignored his black audience in favor of white liberals at first and now white moderates. I would guess he is counting on them, and why shouldn't he, they support him by over 90% !
Jesse Jackson's dislike of Obama can only help him in the election. I do not believe that Jackson's comments have any merit at all and the underlying motivation for Jackson's venom is jealousy in my opinion. This is not the first time that Jackson has made negative comments about Obama. Jackson's attitude and cooments have actually caused ongoing friction between Jackson and his son (who is part of Obama's campaign).
Jesse Jackson is a bumbling old idiot.
Even his son wants nothing to do with him.
Jackson is irrelevent.
What Jackson does or says is meaningless.
I agree Harry. When Obama finally decides to challenge america he picks on poor blacks. Why not challenge American's on its imperialistic tendencies, economic inequality instead of pandering to poor ( yes they atre poor not middle class) white Americans with screwed up notions of what America means.
Barack Obama is running an inclusive campaign, which addresses all races, classes...
Jesse Jackson thrives on victimhood, and Barack Obama is a direct threat to his "business". How quickly would Barack's campaign crumble if he were to address only African Amercian issues?
Big deal. So Jesse Jackson said this. It is not a big deal. Our society is getting so bad someone can't sneeze. This is a free society. Anyone can say anything to anyone.
Hasn't anyone else ever made a mistake? Did you ever tell off your boss and wish you hadn't or snap at your spouse or partner and hit below the belt and felt remorseful afterwards.
Give me a break! I think it is kind of funny.
Wow, good for Obama. Sounds like he may know people in NYC who live above 125th St. Obama should ask Bill Cosby to join his team.
Jesse Jackson...a good Christian man? Compare him to Clarence Thomas' grandfather who raised him. No comparison!
What's Jackson doing on Fox news to begin with?
Once again, so-called establish "black leaders" issuing an apologia for unacceptable behavior by blacks (men and women) as it relates to responsibility to their family and community. Obama's comments show precisely why he will be the presidential nominee and Jackson could not succeed when he tried.
What's with Jesse Jackson and open mikes? Remember Hymietown.
Could there be another political calculation here? Might it be that Obama is trying to speak to black women (who might understand very well what he's saying), particularly with an eye to black women turning out in greater numbers to vote than black men?
BORED AND HARRY ARE BOTH OFF OF THE POINT. He was speaking in a black church on Fathers Day. Should he have been talking about Iran? It was appropriate Jesse Jackson is simply jealous, and old.
Yes, Mr Jackson thrives on victimhood. He is yesterday's news.
Two words: Jessesaurus Rex. Jesse is damn near an extinct species.
Go Obama,
let's talk about personal responsibility! hello, people, wake up and be responsible.
"Ignores poor blacks"
"Picks on poor blacks?"
Please. So no black leaders can disparage the negative behavior of our people? I think he's acknowledged and spoken intelligently about the history of black people in this country and it's implications and consequences. But you don't want to hear that, for some reason you want him to say things that a man running for president can't say just to assuage your rage.
It's not that his remarks were condescending towards blacks, it's that they were uninspired and uninteresting. This debate -- personal responsibility vs. structural racism is soooo tired! We need new paradigms that actually resonate with young black men, and Obama AND Jesse are missing an opportunity to capitalize on the excitement generated by Obama's candidacy.
So now the sheep have found a new leader. Black people are doomed we have bought hook line and sinker what white conservatives have been selling America. Jesse jackson is saying the same thing ralph nader said, when does Obama speak to the White power establishment. When does he speak to power instead of kicking the powerless.
We lived in Chicago during the late 60s early 70s and I was very impressed that Rev. Jackson's Operation Push message was just that - personal responsibility. Has he forgotten that?
Jackson's remarks are silly. However, Obama talks of taking responsibility, but has he?
Campaign financing - flip flop.
Israel - flip flop.
NAFTA - flip flop.
Wire tapping - flip flop.
I was never a Muslim - I was born a Muslim.
I am the President of all America - Muslims, stay out of my photo ops.
Racism must end - just forget about my 20 years attending a racist church.
Such a shame that Jackson doesn't take Obama on for his real faults, not for silly jealousies.
This "social context" argument doesn't work. It was a speech about personal responsibility. Referencing potential "excuses" would have detracted from the force of his arguments. This is about Jesse Jackson's frustration that he is becoming increasingly less significant.
How stupid was Jackson to make comments like that in a studio near a mic -- Fox loves to trip people up and he should've realized the potential. Obama was right to say what he did. The truth ain't always pretty and the black community went after Bill Cosby a few years ago when he said basically the same thing. Jesse Jackson, while prominent on the national political scene, is hardly the paragon of virtue when it comes to stellar moral actions.
@ You miss the point, He spoke with Cameras from all the major networks there.
As someone who is part of a minority group that historically has been extremely unjustly treated by the US government; I still must say that being constantly reminded of the victimization and injustice is ultimately not helpful. It is important to work for social change and understand one's history but it is equally important to believe and be reminded of one's personal power to influence and chart the course of your own life. Too many well meaning white liberals and non-whites with misguided or shady agendas constantly drill in the victimization mind set and the result one gets from this is that non-whites are completely powerless over the circumstances of their own lives.
I think that what you are seeing here as that African-Americans have the same divide between
Boomers and Millennials that White Americans do. The new generation of all races just sees race and gender in a different way and Obama is part of that. He is not inclined toward the incredible divisions of us boomers and I, for one, see that as a very positive development. We need to come together on values we share and policies we need, not continue the same old, same old. I speak, by the way, as a White boomer who worked with kids in the same Chicago neighborhood where he did community organizing--when he was probably about eight years old.
OK. First of all.. I'm white.
Second of all... Yeah, so what? I don't see hip-hop reducing the out of wedlock birthrate.
Perhaps a strategic answer (a massive job retraining program) which gives ALL americans a SKILLed trade would be a good start
(look here for details on what is a good start
sos-newdeal.blogspot.com/2008/07/mandatory-draft-alternative-service.html )
PS: I agree that Jackson is fro
Thank you BL show for focusing on the most constructive of Jackson's comment and for inviting such informed guests to speak on this issue. I've thoroughly enjoyed their assessments thus far.
Please remember ... this was FATHER'S DAY!! He was speaking to keep the theme of the day.
Pathetic people sitting home, disparaging Jackson who has accomplished more than they ever will, who has fought and worked harder than they ever will; disparaging Obama, who has more decency and intelligence than they ever will, just disparaging. I must disparage you, you who have done what exactly?
If Obama becomes President, he will probably get picked on a lot worse, it goes with the territory of being in politics. I listen to a Progressive radio commentator and they make comments about Republicans just as Republican commentators make comments about Obama.
SNL will probably have a field day with this one.
And Obama is right that too many fathers are missing. 9 children, 3 with 1 woman, and again and again, dad can't be there for all of them.
Obama is telling men to be men and grow up. Good for him, he's got the cajones to be President. He has gone up a lot in my opinion.
I am surprised that Jesse Jackson was so taken aback by Sen. Obama's comments because I saw him on the stage with Bill Cosby who was making similar statements not too long ago. Jesse sat on the stage and nodded in agreement.
Maybe Mr. Obama has ovbiously touched on something MR. Jackson who has to admit having an extra matrial affair inwhich he fathered a child "Out of Wedlock" a few years ago. Jackson is nothing but a hypocrite
TOO MANY FATHERS ARE MISSING - HALF OF ALL BLACK CHILDREN LIVE IN SINGLE PARENTS HOME. What he is doing with the child he fathered out of wedlock
as a young black man, this incident just confirms my view that the older "black leaders" are stuck in the politics, egos and rhetoric of yesterday. the truth is, while there is young black americans understand the past, we see the obamas as more representative of modern black life than folks like jackson and sharpton.
the press needs to stop lazy journalism and recognize that jesse jackson no longer represents "black america". it may be hard for rev. jackson to accept it, but please can the media stop feeding his ego.
Gibson #13,
Wasn't Father's Day almost 2 months ago...That's a long time for a "supporter" to carry around this vitriol. What was more interesting was the facial reaction of Reid Tuckson. Tuckson looked a little put off by Jackson!
What about the possiblity that Obama was presenting his actual beliefs about the social problems blacks face? Why does all this have be seen as posturing?
Please stop calling Jackson's remark a "vulgarity."
It was a common slangy colloquialism.
YOU should try to avoid talking down to your audience.
Obama is pulling a Clinton circa 1992. Remember when he attacked Sister Soliga?
Whites like seeing someone give blacks a stern lecture. When Obama does it, it makes him more palatable to whites like Bill Cosby.
Plus, Jackson's vulgar comments will help Obama. A lot of whites probably don't like him. So the attitude of whites will be "well if Jesse Jackson has an issue with him, he can't be that bad"
I think Jesse Jackson knows this and probably said what he said on purpose, to help Obama.
Where is the voice of black women in this discussion .. they are the people left holding the responsibility of raising children when men walk away from their responsibility.
Jesse jackson is correct in raising the issues of putting into context the role racism as it works in the job market and lack of resources that face black men.. Jesse and Barack are balencieng out each others ideas .. not in opposition.
As to your having a conservative middle class Sun Newspaper writer to comment and allowing him to be unchallenged when he implies "younger" black men and women are not concerned with the issues that the "older generation" of Jesse Jackson is .. is just butting on Clarence Thomas glass and looking at the opportunities the world offers to black men and women who suck upi to the white establishment. Jackson was smart in quickly taking charge of the way the story would be played in white tabloids.
I'm a single mom by choice...I'm not African American, but all this talk about fathers ... implying of negative repercussions when absent makes me irritated. My family is a matriarchy, and my child is not missing anything, nor will suffer for any lack of father.
BORED,
Yeah. You get it, we don't.
Now provide us and Obama with another theme, a realistic alternative to his message that won't flush his chances down the toilet.
Although the Moynihan Report, William Julius Wilson (The Truly Disadvantaged) and others set the tone that increasing the pool of marriageable men in the African American community can rest at the heart of social policy to address poverty, doesn’t this just give us a way to gloss over the deeper social issues?
I couldn't agree more with Ida!!
Let's not take any of the responsibility away from the women in these situations. "Knees together ladies" Having a baby for a man will not keep him in your life. Protect your womb! Young women need to know this and young men need to hear what Senator Obama said also!
Jackson is fighting to remain relevant.
Julia Chance
Mr. Jackson respectfully to you I say "A hit dog will holler!"
I think Jesse Jackson's remark had less to do with fatherhood and more to do with Obama taking away from Jackson's franchise as the moth called to any black incident. Jackson is losing clout to Obama and he doesn't like it.
to Post 31 - When Obama becomes President, he will be picked on and picked apart a lot more! Trust me, I am sure he is expecting it and probably already accustomed to it by now.
I think the caller from Huntington is wrong. Obama can take the Black Community for granted. I would bet that at least 95% of blacks vote for Obama and that is how he calculates his campaign strategy. He doesn't want to scare whites or Hispanics.
on the side. new york is not the richest city in the world. zurich and geneva are just two 'richer' cities. i hate when people throw around phrases like that.
http://www.citymayors.com/economics/richest_cities.html
This caller Michael is wrong. Black illegitimacy was at 18% in 1962 and two parent households were proportionately high as well, now it is is over 65% and the single parenthood is well over that due to divorce. It certainly has grown. Don't manufacture your own facts!
Further to my last comment on Jackson:
Operation PUSH, an acronym for People United to Save (later Serve) Humanity, was an organization which advocated black self-help and achieved a broad audience for its liberal stances on issues of social justice and civil rights.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow/PUSH
The caller is right. There are economic problems in this country that affect all people, and being warm and fuzzy towards your children won't help that. If you gave every black man a well-paid job, they would get married.
You should read today's Wall Street Journal about a community in Arizona in which 20% of the men are in prison, and consequently mothers and grandmotehrs must bring up children.
call is off the mark
of course 2 parent homes are better than one parent homes!
This campaign on all sides has been played in snipets. So I am going with my gut. Bill Cosby was right. Barack is right. We can do better as a people. What is so wrong with saying that.
John McWhorter's claim about studies regarding two-parent families is simply FALSE. The studies in the US to which he is referring are _all_ funded by groups or done by groups with a "pro-family" axe to grind.
There are many countries, mostly in Europe, with far higher divorce rates that do not see the problems the US does.
Part of the problem in the US is that when one parent is gone, our society offers very nearly NOTHING by way of public support, particularly, again, in comparison to European countries.
This notion that a bad marriage is better than a good divorce is grossly laden with religious and political bias in the US.
Moreover, one can still make a case for two parent involvement even if two parents don't live together.
That last caller was off base. Single-mother, single-income households don't have an effect a child's upbringing? White or black doesn't matter. Of course it impacts. I'm white and it impacted me (but, pace #40 above, not necessarily because I lacked a father figure per se). But no one says addressing the issue is some kind of panacea. Sure plicy's important as well.
I disagree, two parent homes are NOT guaranteed better than one parent homes! People stop making sweeping comments like that. Several one parent homes are that way for reasons of abuse, death etc... think before you speak please.
@ AWM
You mean that thisc was the topic that Obama was going to win on.HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
I don’t know the answer to this question so I’m just being the devil’s advocate. Why is it that other ethnic groups who are just as discriminated against if not more then black folks (like the Chinese who built the railroads in the 1800’s under slave type labor conditions) seem to be able to prosper and have more intact family units and lower incarceration rates? Again, I don’t know the answer, I’m just asking.
Remember when Dan Quayle was berated and mocked for commenting on the Murphy Brown character having a child without a father? The fact is that, regardless of race, children do better in 2 parent families.
#58 is right. Sweeping statements. Two parent home is not good if a parent is molesting a child, abusing the child, cheating on the spouse and the parents are constantly fighting, emotionally distant from the family and not involved.
Every situation is different. What is best for the child. On the flip side, if a parent whether in a two parent or a single parent home, are you a emotionally and mentally healthy adult? Do you take care of yourself as well as the child?
Oh yes, single parent households are just great!
I gather some who comment like this here on this don't have children.
@ kev does Barack Obama now represent Black America?
I dont know about the upper west side but here on the upper east side you RARELY see white couples with their children, you USUALLY see the white children with their black nannies.. How about some speeches emphasizing the upper middle class obligations to THEIR kids. If you want to see whole families.. go to Queens and see the (native) Mexican families. P.S. now if Barak can get Farakhan and Sharpton to say the same thing as Jackson he wil be REALLY getting a subset of white folks on his side...
Bill, #57 - You are way off ... This could be an opportunity for the black community to make a societal impact that transends all groups, but unfortunately, instead is just adapting this patriarchical worshipping of the man - Can we stop commodit-izing the male as an all important "figure" that determines everybody's fate, and give the power to the women and children!!
Karen,
but Murphy Brown could afford the best for her child unlike in any poor woman.
As a black man, I don't understand why anyone would not agree with Barracks message to black men. I would prefer the discussion shift to the shameful role racism plays politically inside America i.e kentucky and west virginia and the disgusting religious xenophobia of many Americans.
Jon P. The males of the other groups were economically empowered to take care of their family units. Whites shut that down for Blacks, specifically the men.
For a time this government would only take care of the Black family if there was no male in the household.
We remind white people too much of the devastation their ancestors caused and they have tried everything to get our ancestors to "go back where they came from" so they wouldn't be reminded of that everyday. even though they kidnapped them from their true home.
There are still alot of older Blacks who this hatred was instilled in for a long time and and they passed it on through the generations
but it is changing, slowly.
Thank you Harry. And I gather these same people didn’t grow with just one parent. You can be raised right by just one parent put its real hard if there is no outside support system like other family members or if the parent is never around because they are working to jobs just to make ends meet as single parent.
BORED,
Senator Obama is Bi-Racial, he represents diverse America, not Black America.
you RARELY see white couples with their children, you USUALLY see the white children with their black nannies..
What, is this something new?
truth
do whites force black to drop out of high school?
The Obama News of the morning has NOTHING to do with Jesse Jackson's comments. Let's talk about something that matters to America: FISA capitulation. C'mon Lehrer, you can do better.
First of all, one black man should NEVER talk about castrating another black man if he know ANYTHING about the history of Africans in America! Jesse Jackson should be a shamed.
Secondly Barack Obama's black father did leave him and had lots of children with lots of different women. So it's possible that his resentment towards his father led to these comments. If he's talking down to black people then so is Cosby and every other black person who makes suck comments about black fatherhood. (Just a thought)
Finally, Mr. Lehrer's guest talked about white parents walking behind carriages on the Upper West Side. WRONG! Black women are walking behind both sets of carriages as single mothers AND as Nannies! Let's get some historical and social context Brotha! Don't just talk out the side of your neck.
@69: Slavery ended in the US a LONG time ago, so there has been no "kidnapping from their true home". Couldn't the same also be said of the Irish, Polish, Jewish, Italians who were unwillingly forced to leave their homes and emigrate through famine & purges in Europe?
#60,
The problem is that you don't know the answer to your question.
HJS,
Nope and they don't force the hispanics, jews, Germans, Islandics or Scotts to either. But everything is relative and trickles down to what the childs home life is...granted some, just simply give up and leave.
What is bi racial.
Phoebe,
But they settled here in the US!! Their white faces bought them entitlement.
Again,
This is not a racial issue. This is about Barack speaking on one specific issue, on father's day, in a predominately Black church.
annnnd, here is more of what is wrong with this country..Black Church, White Church, Chinese Church, Jewish Synagogue!!
AWN,
That’s why I asked... What do you do when you have question you don’t know the answer to? Do you sit there remain ignorant?
BORED...what are you challenged?
Black Father + White Mother = Bi-Racial
mike humphreys:
That is because they are invested in hate. They hate tradition, they hate the family, they hate patriotism or anything that calls on them for responsibility or duty, in short narcissists. Both my wife and I work and we share responsibility for our young children. It would be nearly impossible for either of us to provide a good supervised and purposeful environment if we were single parents!
#62: Why doesn't that go without saying? Of course a single-parent household is preferable to a two-parent household marked by abuse.
#66: If patriarchy's a delusion the community labors under then by all means appeal to it to get men to be responsible. All-or-nothing idealism gets no one anywhere. Be willing to take steps. As I said above, I wasn't disadvantaged by the absence of a father figure as such, but my workingclass, single-mother household put us both at a disadvantage, so burdened was she by the responsibilities, financial and parental, that would otherwise have been shared by two. If some toxic household would have resulted from my parents staying together could that have been worse? No doubt. But I don't see how it isn't obvious that the problem this segment was concerned with isn't a cycle that needs to stop somewhere: son of broken family father's broken family, etc. Anyone who thinks these guests really think this is a panacea is making the sweeping generalizations themselves.
Senator Obama is running for President of the United States of America, not of the NAACP or Urban League.
None of the various clergy persons recently defamed by some in the media are running for President.
Neither Presidential candidate is running for God.
The truth may often be "inconvenient."
However, it is time to face the facts and act accordingly and constructively for the sake of our posterity and posteriors.
People have and make choices, and choices do have consequences.
Please continue your responsible use of the media, discussing the issues rather than irrelevant distractions.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Dr Martin Luther King, Jr (1963)
--30--
@80: Not at all true. Research the issues all immigrant groups have faced in moving to the US. They banded together, helped one-another, and eventually blended into the (white) mainstream. But all faced discrimination on entry to the country, and a "white face" brought no entitlement.
Jon P.
Nothing wrong with asking questions. Unless you were of course being sarcastic.
Brilliant show! Brian, your capacity to faciltate meaning dialogue on issues and to include multiple perspectives is extraordinary.
What I like about Obama is actually quite similar. I think he has the abiity to recognize that there are multiple perspectives on complex issues, and there may be some validity to many of the various points of view. So he can discuss issues (like fatherhood in the black community) from these multiple perspectives while seeking common ground for solutions. Is addressing personal responsibilty a key element in dealing with the issue? Absolutely. But my guess is that he also believes that part oof the solution includes dealaing with the overall economy and yes, addressing issues of systemic or historical racism. (For example, I believe he continues to support affirmative action).
I think many people want to put him in a box that makes it easy to pigeon hold or label him: flip flopper! progressive! betrayer of progressives! tax and spend liberal! But Obama is more complex than any of these easy labels.I hope he continues in his efforts to clarify and articulate his nuanced views on difficult issues.
Obama's father left him behind when he was 2 (I do not know the details). Seems like it worked for him, although he is an exceptional individual.
Phoebe, keep researching, I bet your great grandfather received more "favor" than mine. I bet you $2mil right now.
the truth,
Nope, no sarcasim. Just asking the question. That’s why I put in the "Devil’s advocate" disclosure because I don’t know the answer.
Phoebe,
Listen to what you are saying "then they BLENDED into white mainstream society" How does that work for mine?
Actually, he died in the trenches in WW1. Great favor. Stick to your victimhood, and enjoy.
The Truth: How it fits, in any society... get an education, dress well, speak well, take responsibility for your own actions, behave in a manner which is fitting to your social status. This transcends race.
Chris O...Another great comment! HAHAHA
Obama was raised by his MARRIED grandmother and grandfather!
Get your facts straight!
truth
if u have 2 mill than ur better off than i am so what's your point.
blacks - time to move on and take care of your families, put the pain behind you and act like an adult
I'd like to get a bit more prosaic here, and say: Jackson would be at Fox Studios, and be so unguarded, *regardless* of whether or not his mike was on? WTF!!!???!!
Dude! That is ENEMY TERRITORY. Whether you are black, white, Oreo, old school, retro, paleo, blood red, pale pink, yellow or blue dog. If you are any kind of liberal activist, you are on enemy ground, and you have got to have your damn wits about you.
Which leads me to the unpleasant supposition that perhaps-- just perhaps-- for reasons I don't completely understand-- the "gaffe" was a deliberate one.
Harry,
I said Obama's father left him when he was 2 years old. You say my facts are wrong. Sorry buddy but what I wrote is a fact.
And Harry,
Get your facts straight in your first post. The speech was given before a mostly black audience. Duh.
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