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Are You Hearing This?
From drum circles to garbage trucks, noise is a fact of life in the city. We're joined by two guests to discuss the issue: Donald Williams, president of the Mount Morris Park Community Improvement Association, who fills us in on the latest battle between drummers and condo residents in Marcus Garvey Park, and Manny Velazquez, chair of Community Board 12, who updates us on the problems of noise and garbage in Inwood Hill Park.
Let's Hear It: What noises do you hear in your local park? What do you make of these complaints? How do we strike the balance between public space and peace and quiet? Comment below!
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Comments
The drummer issue was already resolved in a compromise brokered by the parks department and community leaders...
THe new york times article that came out this past weekend was a shameful display of journalism by portraying this disagreement as ongoing when in fact it has been resolved.
from what i understand the drummers were given a permanent location that was designed and built specifically for them, and based on the prospect park drummers circle. they are now under the protection of the parks department.
The other thing to note, is that over the years, other residents around the park have had issue wtih the drummers and the drummers moved when asked. but when this request was made by so called new comers, a controversy erupted.
I believe this a issue that in essence relates to the problem regarding the type of transplants that are arriving to our city!
They come to our city for all the great things it offers but when they move in they want to change what makes our city great.
Drumming in the parks is nothing more than a primitive fire dance which reminds me of the opening sequence in the movie "King Kong". There is constant drumming in Union Square park, sometimes as late as 3:00 in the morning. Calls to the police to enforce park rules go unanswered. Most of the drummers don't care at all about how they might be bothering others. Regularily, the drummers "drown out" other legimitate park activities.
I say gather up all the drummers and give them a spot somwhere in the East River, where they can drum their asses off without interfering with the peaceful enjoyment of our parks.
I've lived in Washington Heights and Inwood for ten years and have never found barbeques or noise or music in our gorgeous and vibrant parks a problem. The more people who use Highbridge and Fort Tryon and Inwood Hill Parks, the better. Because of their design and natural characteristics, you can always find quiet and solitude.
What they do suffer from is being forgotten for maintenance. Trees blown down last winter, let alone in last month's storm, are still blocking paths, including the most direct path from the neighborhood to the Cloisters (tourists come a different way). Would this be tolerated in Central Park? At the Met? Anywhere rich and middle class people predominate? No.
The primary aspect of this issue that should be discussed, is the type of transplants that are arriving at our city!
Many come from a relatively sterile background, and move to our city for the wonders it offers but when they arrive they want to change it the very bland place they came from!
We hear people playing loud music until 4am on the weekends and people driving by and let their cars idle with the music blaring.
The Drummers in Central Park by the lake just to the west of the Fountain at 72nd Street have faced occasional harassment over the years based on the complaints of wealthy residents of the UWS. There are (and likely always will be) er, "challenges" when people of different cultures come together in public space. I love the Latin influenced African rhythms of the Brothers byt the lake, but dislike the 'random' street beats of the drummers by the Bandshell. A matter of taste, I suppose.
Most of the city's parks ban grilling (open fires) but the law is rarely enforced. The problem really is people leaving their garbage behind. This is completely unfair and utterly selfish behavior and typical of a broad cross-section of American society. Many of the State Parks have removed garbage cans and have "carry your trash out" rules that they strictly enforce. This would be fine...if we had the $$ to have real caretakers in our parks.
New York is changing. I live in Washington Heights & Gentrification is pushing everyone north. The neighborhood is now getting more diverse (compared to the rest of Manhattan).
You just know in a couple of years the yuppie scum will price everyone out & put an end to anything that might disturb their beauty sleep.
To paraphrase:
"The Philharmonic in the parks is nothing more than a primitive Waltz which reminds me of the a sequence in the movie "Birth of a Nation"
re: Inwood Hill Park
1. There is no place for city apartment dwellers to cook their own barbecue, or even to have a family reunion. This is a quality of life issue. Also many suburban parks, like Tibbetts Brook in Yonkers are closed to New Yorkers. You must have a town resident permit. I live across the street from the Inwood Park, but when family comes in from out of town, we have to go to Tallman or Harriman State Parks, very far away.
2. Dominicans (and Mexicans) are very family oriented and on the one day that many of them are not working, they come out to enjoy the park. They play softball. They have birthday parties. The whole family is there. However, there are some in the neighborhood who would like to see Indian Road to be a quiet zone like the Sheep Meadow where the yuppies would go to get some sun and read the New York Times Book Review. This borders on racism.
Also, where are the soccer players (mostly hispanic) on the soccer field? I see that they have been replaced by lacrosse and, my God, ultimate frisbee.
We live in a large city and there are few places to enjoy the outdoors. Not all of us can afford to go to the Hamptons or the Shore or upstate.
Also the PEP workers are few and ineffectual. I've heard that some of them work 8-4 on weekdays.
Dennis of Inwood.
what I think is disturbing is the way that the police race thru poorer neighborhoodsin the middle of the night , with sirens blasting and wailing. then get south of 96st street and park ave and go silent with only lights flashing.. there is no excuse for that.
Is this issue really about cultural differences or is their another issue at work here, who are these people that move in into a city that is majority of people of color!
Most of these new arrivals are from a usually sterile areas and when they come to a diverse and wonderfully synergistic cultures, they balk, and want to revert the city to the sterile background were they came from!
It's the sounds of the street that put me to sleep. Grew up in the Bronx lived on the ground floor on a main thoroughfare my bedroom was facing street and all night walkers-by would bang on the then tin garbage cans under my window and fire trucks from the firehouse up the street would go by horns and sirens and all, the traffic and busses all night are what put me to sleep. On quiet nights here now I can't fall asleep, I need that street noise to fall asleep. Dead silence freaks me out and I stay awake all night.
#2
"primitive fire dance"?
Why are you dancing around what you really want to say,hmmmm?
I live next to Morningside Park. I don't mind the noise that arises out of the park, especially on summer weekends when families get together to barbecue or celebrate holidays and birthdays. This is a healthy use of the park and is exactly the type of public use of green space that parks are intended for--New Yorkers fortunate enough to escape the city for their green shouldn't be the only ones with access to places to cookout and hangout. The vibrancy of these park celebrations is only a natural extension of the vibrancy of this city. I am, however, bothered by the mountains of trash left in the park following these parties. Many people make use of the trash cans, but a very visible number of picnickers make no attempt to throw their garbage out--I have often witnessed adults and children alike tossing bones, rinds, soda bottles, plates, and paper goods onto the grass. Additionally, there are cans to receive coals from grills, but residents often just pour their coals on the ground and smother them in water, leaving a sticky, stinky mess. I don't know what to do about this very basic lack of consideration--it feels like an assault on our space. Perhaps, we can have park employees ask those who are throwing picnicks to sign a pledge promising to clean up at the end, in addition to handing out extra black garbage bags for free?
Any reason why my postings are being held back? I had to send two twice to get them posted all the ones that were sent once are not posted. They're not dirty or indecent!!! What's up?
Why don't the people the condo building move back downtown! This is Harlem!
I've lived in NYC for 11 years and in inwood for 4. I love this neighborhood, precisely because it contains a diverse, lively population who actually make use of public spaces like our gorgeous parks. Sure, the fireworks can get annoying late at night and I'm not a huge fan of blaring reggaeton at 8AM. But people LIVE here. Dogs barking, neighbors practicing their opera singing, babies crying, happy birthday being sung at a party in the park...its a sign of a neighborhood that is alive and participating in normal human activities. People just get fiesty when the sounds they hear aren't familiar to THEM. Which has a lot to do with racism and classism. Inwood is one of the last stands for a working middle class in manhattan. Let us make our joyful noise.
move out of the city if you need silence or get ear plugs or build sound proof buildings
What do you call a guy who hangs out with musicians?
A drummer.
Why is the incessant noise of automobiles somehow shrugged off and tolerated? Do we all accept it as part of life? Honking does very little to solve a traffic problem, it is merely a venting mechanism for the person in the car who has his windows up, ac on, music blaring or cell phone jabbering - the environment of the person walking down the street or inside a restaurant or their apartment suffers, and everybody accepts it, including the police. There seems to be entitled behavior of people in cars, they double park, they park in crosswalks, bus lanes, bike lanes. They are also 'victims' of gasoline prices, insurance, difficult parking - but that is not the problem of the rest of us ! GROW UP, get out of your car walk around and join us---
Sometimes it's too much!
if the police need to SERVE that's thier job. And all Black people Riot. Right. Awesome representation on New York's Finest.
Set up hours to drum, residents get a break, and no dramas.
A-- Buyers should learn ALL the aspects of a neighborhood before they purchase.
B-- The brownstones and a lot of older brick and mortar buildings blunt outside sound. The newer constructions all tend to be structurally transparent to sound. Glass, metal and sheetrock do not insulate like two feet of brick and mortar or blocks of brownstone.
I think the cop said "riot" because of the potential conflict with the police. Af-Ams may resent their involvement.
If the drummers were there for 30 years, I think that is asking for a riot. I agree with the police officer.
We are not going to be ignored.
"Drumming in the parks is nothing more than a primitive fire dance"
Judith, you say this like there is something wrong with it.
well-to-do people with a sense of entitlement
are draining the soul of this city
Thank you officer for forcing them to hit the nail square on the head!
I am Black and I have to tell you, there is not a whole lot of things on my list that I want to do for 12 hours!!
Now I don't have all sides of the story here but, 12 hours of drumming is certainly excessive.
I also agree with lonnie post #19.
I thought they played the drums till 10pm at night?
Urban renewal at the price of the cultural vibrancy, New York is only a tenth of what it use to be!
never minded the drums while living in harlem or the uws, but setting a reasonable time for noise/drumming seems a reasonable compromise, owing to children who need to sleep, etc.
what is a shame is that people use the parks to barbeque (morningside, prospect, etc.), and leave them trash-filled every weekend. those who do should be issued trash bags or other means to clean up after themselves, and that this be enforced. it's sad to have to step around the trash the next day, and it seems a huge "screw you" to those who have fought hard to have safe and well-manicured places to recreate.
the bicycle trail that runs through the areas north of the hudson river park (130s on up) are is un-passable every weekend. the cops stand off to the side and enforce little. as a woman who used to enjoy cycling through the area, i am sickened by the lack of respect.
btw, brian--barbeque-ing is NOT simply a working-class activity. don't bait the guest, please.
City = noise… It always has. I can’t believe this is even an issue. It’s like someone moving next to a set of railroad tracks and then complaining about the trains going by… Simple answer to the problem, think before you buy your million dollar condo…
We have to teach people not to throw garbage around in the park? Leaving garbage behind in a public park is a cultural thing? G-d help us!
I would like to take issue with the first gentleman who spoke about the drumming in the park. If you take into account the history of the drum in the United States and its legacy with respect to slavery, the issue has many racial implications. Implications that the drummers are well aware of.
I live directly across from Inwood Hill park on Payson Avenue. What Mr. Valezquez is avoiding is the whole issue of the west end of Dyckman street adjoining Inwood Hill Park, which is the location of late-night bacchanalias from sunset until approximately 4 am. Cars parked there blast music at such levels that it can be heard ten blocks away. I am disappointed the Mr. Valazquez has done a quick two-step around this matter. Trash is not the most important matter here!
Until 2 years ago I lived on Indian Road in Inwood across from Inwood Hill Park. The problem was the way the barbecue parties and their cars commandeered the park and the adjoining streets all weeked every weekend all summer long. Early on weekend mornings the visitors take over huge sections of the park with tents, tables, furniture and grills and boom music from their cars parked nearby. We had to weave through them to use the park and dodge their mounds of garbage. The insult to us was always the wya these folks imposed themselves on us with no sense of shared use.
I love city noise, I love drums, I love music, I love my people! I DON'T love all of that together at one time for 12 hours!!
I agree w/Jeff's post #24 too.
I spend each weekend listening to the alienating symphony of the city’s ceaseless building boom -- constant jack hammering, bulldozers scraping, and dump trucks loading... That is, sadly, the characteristic noise of my neighborhood (park avenue south/flatiron/murray hill), even on Saturdays, for 8-10 hours from the early morning until the early evening.
I would MUCH rather listen to the sounds of my neighbors coming together and enjoying their surroundings, be it drumming, singing, playing whatever.... To me that is a positive part of life in a big, diverse city where our outdoor spaces are truly common spaces. At least it starts after a good night’s sleep!
and why turn barbeque into a race issue? most people like doing it, but know it's illegal in the parks. i have watched people douse chemically-treated briquets in lighter fluid, setting fires that jump up and damage overhead trees. perhaps the compromise is to limit barbeque to a particular area, bounded by concrete/other flameproof building materials. the cooks can then ferry the food to picnic-ers in the park outside.
yes, the city has always been noisy, but the bass-boosting car stereos of today push the limits of "reasonable". every weekend, the noise set off car alarms at all hours in our neighborhood. i seem to remember a law brought about during bloomberg's first term to enforce reasonable noise levels. the police clearly don't see this worth their while.
The DOT should be issued decibel meters and write $150 tickets for anyone blasting music from their car. It would be a good source of revenue for the city.
In the meantime, I hope $4 a gallon gas will make a difference.
As a new resident of Inwood, I'm of two minds about the picnickers in Inwood Hill Park. On the one hand, I'm leery of attempts to turn yet another neighborhood into a professional class dormitory. On the other hand, neighbors tell me that most of the picnickers drive in from other parts of the city, bringing additional traffic, double-parking, and idling.
All things considered, I find myself reluctantly siding with the residents who want to move the picnickers because those who drive in from other parts of the city do not really express the culture of the neighborhood, and while I don't mind the noise and bustle, I don't want their cars (or anybody else's, for that matter) in my neighborhood.
"Not all caucasians are anglo-saxons."
yeah, but in manhattan it seems like they all WANT to be.....
Do you really feel satisfied, that by having 2 upper middle class people discuss this issue, re class and race, you've done your job? Where was the input of the majority with $26,000 incomes? No doubt the riot waiting to happen will take you by surprize, not having any idea how accumilated frustrations of the ignored, marginalized and dissplaced need only another inevitable Sean Bell to set them in motion . Shame on you.
Peter,
People coming from outside the neighborhood into your park? Last time I checked, all New York public parks are open to everyone. Even someone like me from NJ! That’s the most arrogant and ignorant comment I have heard in a long time. It’s like me saying only folks form NJ can hike on the NJ section of the appellation trail because only NJ culture should be allowed on this part of the trail. Sounds stupid, doesn’t it?
Michael Henry Adams - you sure like to suggest riots, don't you? Every time I've seen you in quotes the last few months, whether this or the 125th Street rezoning, you've mentioned rioting (even though you don't exactly come right out and encourage it, it's pretty clear...). You sure have tarnished your good name and reputation.
Shame on YOU sir!
uh, brian claims bbqing is 'working class'? forgive me for sounding politically correct, but that seems simply wrong.
The cop was abolutely right. The drummers will dig in their heels. Old time resident may not like them, but will support their right to stay. If the police are forced by the very vocal new residents, it aint gonna be pretty.
The man who described him self as African American sounded like a well eductted TOm to me..
Welcome to Harlem. ISnt this what you came for? Oh, it was the price.
Go home then
I've definitely noticed better enforcement in Inwood Hill Park, but what Manny Valazquez
gets quite wrong is that it's not the influx of new residents causing the noise pollution, trash and car violations, but more often people coming in from other areas such as the Bronx, New Jersey, lower Washington Heights. People who live in Inwood generally respect the park and its beauty; that's why they moved there in the first place.
Also, he fails to address one of the biggest problems in the park; the baseball diamonds.
Nothing against baseball, but the men playing drink openly during the day and into the evenings, urinate in front of our children, and leave appalling amounts of trash.
As to the caller who complained about a select group being able to decide who uses the park, I am bewildered. It's a matter of city laws being enforced. I love a good picnic too, and do not want to stop law-abiding citizens from enjoying the summer or the park. But this is not the wild west -- and I happen to know that the caller is my neighbor who is in fact leaving the city for the west coast in a few weeks so the problems we are dealing with will not affect her and her family. I do not mean this to be an attack, just a statement of reality.
Nicole Sprinkle
It's interesting that there are charges of racism here against people who have recently moved into the neighborhood and are white. If I choose to live here, am I not entitled to a clean and relatively quiet park, regardless of my race and regardless to how long I have lived in Inwood? Does it make me racist if I decide not to go to Dyckman Fields because there is too much trash on the ground to let my child play?
This debate is not about culture or race, as much as many journalists would like it to be. It's about people acting neighborly and following the law. There are many Dominicans up here in Inwood who would like their parks cleaner and their nights more peaceful. Blaming white Yuppies is a cop-out, and it makes me think that those who do must be the ones littering and making noise.
Here's hoping for a cleaner and quieter Inwood, one that we can all enjoy together.
The characterization of conditions in Inwood Hill Park as a "flare up”, and/or motivated by race and/or class are inaccurate, misleading and most probably politically motivated.
As a long time resident of Indian Road (directly across the street from one of the many entrances to Inwood Hill Park) I have witnessed increasingly deteriorating conditions including public urination, defecation, exposure, fornication, uncollected trash (which exacerbates the rat infestation problem) illegal drug and alcohol sale and consumption, double and triple parked cars, boom boxes - in general, out of control conditions.
The only thing classist and/or racist about this issue is that if these conditions were allowed to occur in Central Park at all, enforcement would have put a quick end to them.
My neighbors - of every race, ethnicity, gender and sexual orientation are only asking for the same level of service and enforcement that other, more economically advantaged and far less diverse communities have been receiving all along.
Perhaps Mr.Valazquez would like to address how not calling upon city agencies to deliver the same level of enforcement to underserved communities is the real race/class issue here, unless, of course, he has another agenda, in which case it would be useful to just say so instead of creating divisions where none exist.
Rose said: "People just get feisty when the sounds they hear aren't familiar to THEM. Which has a lot to do with racism and classism."
Amen.
I've lived in Inwood for 11 years. I moved here because it was one of the few neighborhoods in the city where I could afford to live. It immediately felt like home, even though I was distinctly in the minority at that point. When I moved here, I adapted to the neighborhood; I didn't expect the neighborhood to adapt to me. In the past four or five years, Inwood has been flooded with people who seem to arrive with rigid expectations. They invoke "quality of life" issues. The question is: whose quality of life?
I wish that people could observe, and learn, and listen to their neighbors, and try to understand what the real issues are in a community, and be willing to be changed, and adapt, and THEN try to make a contribution--before demanding that things be a certain way.
My perception is that the folks who complain most vociferously about "quality of life" issues don't really participate fully in the community. (I can think of a couple of notable exceptions, though--you know who you are ;)). The "rigid expectation people" care about themselves, and their own comfort, and their own desires. They have blinders on.
True civic mindedness involves listening and learning and has to be a dialogue. Civic mindedness does not consist in the projection of one's desires and expectations onto a community.
Jon P (#43),
Did you read my post at all? I never suggested that parks should only be for locals.
My whole point was that I'm deeply conflicted about new arrivals leaving their (usually bland and conformist) mark on a neighborhood. In this particular case, I would be all in favor of letting the picnickers enjoy their picnics in spite of all kinds of violations, if it weren't for the one behavior that I consider truly antisocial and anti-urban: unnecessary driving, which brings double-parking and idling cars.
The upshot is, I don't mean to exclude anybody at all, and I don't even care about flagrant violations of park rules. Enjoy the park, grill a steak, have a beer, wherever you're from; just leave your car at home. The A train stops just around the corner.
Brian,
As of this summer, there is a new organization in Inwood called DIN Action. DIN stands for Dyckman Inwood Noise. We have a Yahoo site:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DINaction/ This site has a place where anyone can submit their noise complaints onto our database and there are useful links to the noise code and other important items.
We are just gearing up, but have already compiled quite a few noise complaints and our organization will only grow bigger if the media and press recognize us. It is we, not Manny, who have been unable to sleep for Years on summer nights living within a few blocks of the motorcycles, the all night parties, the boom boxes and insanely loud music coming from cars, and the restaurants that blast their music. It is we who have complained to the 34th precinct and have attended the Precinct's community meetings for Years, and have gotten very little result from our expenditure of time. In a recent Manhattan Times article, Inspector Capul has admitted he doesn't have the resources to deal with the noise issue. I've always wondered whether most of his officers are deployed during weekdays and not when they are most needed. We never get the answer.
I hope you will take a look at our website and join DIN Action, posting the 311 calls you make on our database. We needed to do this since the 311 listing for Inwood does not show any complaints about motorcycles or loud music, so we have to do it ourselves.
Everyone has a different take on what is happening in the area.You can see what is foremost in most minds of the bloggers minds.
There is a validity to all , on one level or another.
I don't believe residents of this area want to deprive residents of enjoying the park and surrounding area at all. The issue is respect. It's like going to someone's home as a visitor. You respect their environment and belongings. If you disrespect you are never asked back and usually asked to leave.
If visitors and residents ONLY respected what is offered to them by our community then we would have no complaints.Of course there are those that have no respect and very poor judgement so they are the biggest violators I think.
Lets just put out our expectations of what we want and eventually people repect that or just do not come back. That's fine too!
This thread is closed.
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