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Open Phones: Obama on Guns and Death Penalty
Monday, June 30, 2008
Listeners weigh in on presidential candidate Barack Obama's response to last week's Supreme Court decisions on gun control and the death penalty. Is he moving to the center?
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Comments
I don't like the Supreme Court decisions, but I think Obama's got a reasonable stance on both and I think it's important that he takes stances that tack to the right.
do we want obama him to win?
Why is anyone surprised about Obama's movement to the middle - this has always been a man who will say what he needs to say to keep himself on top. Just like all successful politicians. I'll vote for him, sure, but with a heavy heart.
Obama signed a questionaire stating that he was opposed to the death penalty before he ran for the US senate.
Obama supporters are really whacky! They've all drunk the Kool-Aid.
No matter what Obama does, they'll justify it somehow. Death penalty? Guns? Universal health care that's not universal? No problem!
I'm voting for a 3rd party candidate too.
I am against the death penalty but I think raping a child is in many cases worse than murder.
A man that rapes a child is a real monster while a murderer lurks in all of us. The death penalty for this type of person is certainly reasonable, if a death penalty exists.
"I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views."
Barack Obama
I think many people on the left have projected their own ideas and opinions on Obama. Now they are shocked that he is a centrist - a realist, mainstream politician. What's wrong with that? He will move the country to a more progressive position but he is not going to usher in radical change. He will change America for the better, but he will not completely reshape country. Anyone who thought so should get out of the clouds and join the real world.
Obama is still the best candidate that the Dems have had in decades.
Also, I would like to hear a favorable segment about Obama on this show once in awhile.
I am completely against the death penalty under any circumstances, and I do not believe in the right to bear arms. But I will continue to support Obama. My support is not predicated on his 100% agreement with me on all issues. That would be ridiculous. My own husband is pro-death penalty, and I'd vote for him.
I support, instead, Obama's overall vision for the direction of the country, which remains untarnished in my eyes.
What about Obama's position on passage of the FISA bill and the president's power to surveil U.S. citizens with impunity? I believe we've already heard the deperate plea, "Just trust me," before.
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/06/24/obamas-support-for-t.html
1. He oppsed reforming the 1872 mining act. The reform would have required mining companies to pay royalties when extracting precious minerals from federal lands.
2. He was in favor of the Class Action Fairness Act, an Orwellian named act that made it harder for plaintiffs to bring suits in state court where they usually get a fairer hearing.
He was never a "progressive." Wake up and pay attention, people.
I am more disappointed in the voting public, than the candidate, so focused on *winning*- We need to be more scrutinizing of our "heroes" and nominate and elect people who represent what we *really* believe in. Obama may be this season's celebrity, but he could potentially be a leader who doesn't look out for our interests.
Triangulating to the detriment of The fourth amendment and the constitution is not acceptable. By the time the general election arrives, I fear the only reason to vote for Obama will be future Supreme Court Justices.
Obama on...
GUN CONTROL
He wants to win the West.
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
He remembers what happened to Dukakis in 1988. Dukakis's debate response, when asked whether he would favor the death penalty of someone who raped his wife, is what sunk his campaign.
Also...
It is only because all of these issues -- FISA, capital punishment, gun control -- lined up in the same week that we are talking about this at all.
Everybody needs to calm down
I consider myself pretty liberal (I may have gotten a little more conservative over time), but I'm not sure how I feel about these supposed "Progressives," like your caller. Do they realize how unrealistic it is to think their positions will ever be supported on a national level? Isn't it better to have someone with a fairly liberal agenda in the White House, than the opposite - 4 more years of Bush or the like. In life, there are such things as compromise. Especially if is gets you closer to your goals, than farther away.
To those who would vote for a third-party or write in Hillary... we really need to run up Obama's popular vote. I think there is a pretty fair chance that he will win the popular vote by millions (more than Gore's M.o.V) but still lose the electoral college. If 2 elections in 8 years overturn the popular will, we can push to do away with the electoral collage once and for all.
Comment on the last caller- "you can't complain if you don't vote". I can't stand it when people say that- I don't remember seeing that in the Constitution. She said she couldn't support a candidate who supported the death penalty, so for whom will she vote this Nov? A non-vote says just as much about this system as a vote for the usual mediocre candidates. At least Obama has stronger opinions than the 2004 dem candidate. We don't want to lose again to a 3rd party candidate. We shouldn't vote just because some people say it's our responsibility.
Dumb segment. Comments on Supreme Court decisions are meaningless. After they rule, that's the law and, absent a constitutional ammendment, it's all just bloviating for effect. Whether anyone likes it or not, the Heller case was correctly decided. Get over it. The Supreme Court's death penalty jurisprudence is pulled out of thin air, but that's the way it is. At least Obama understands the constitutional issues. No other politician seems to.
Waldo,
They are called Democrats. It's about 40% of the country. Another 35% are Republicans. Another 30% are independent and they overwhelmingly vote for the Republican or Democrat. Welcome to our political system, no kool-aid required.
I am greatly encouraged by Obama's comments on these two issues. I am an independent, but would not even consider voting for a Republican in a national election after the mess they have made in the last 8 years. However, two of my biggest problems with many democratic candidates are their opposition to the second amendment and the death penalty. It is extremely refreshing to see Mr. Obama willing to deviate from the party line on these issues.
Remember, who ever wins the White House nominates federal judges, but they have to be confirmed by the Senate which will likely be controlled by Dems.
i have a feeling the people, who claimed to be obama supporters but now can't vote for him for this reason or that, never were going to vote for him anyway.
the rest of us are looking at the big picture.
Interesting the we keep talking about HUNTING. The purpose of the second amendment was to allow people to protect themselves from the GOVERNMENT.
Excuse my math in #19 but I hope you get the point.
The reason I have been told that many jurisdictions abolished the death penalty for rape makes perfect sense: you cannot be executed twice. If someone rapes a child, what reason is there for them not to kill the child, given that the child is the best witness to the crime and eliminating the best witness may very well eliminate the possibility of the rape conviction and that the penalty will be the same regardless?
Most jurisdictions use commmon sense on this issue. I expected better from Obama, but I'll still probably vote for him, given the possibility of a kook like McCain in the White House.
Any criticisms of Obama on these lines exactly apply to Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Al Gore 2000, JOhn Kerry 2004. It is disappointing but expected. For those self-declared life long Democrats that voted for these other Democrats but now all of a sudden won't vote for Obama, you have to wonder why? And there is not a lot of wondering required to arrive at a conclusion.
Is it me, but Brian seems to be on a crusade to take down Obama!!!
If the death penalty is imposed in a case in which the crime is not murder, the victim will have to live with the knowledge that a person was executed on their account. That kind of justice is barbaric.
I never had any illusions about Obama. He is a conservative democrat and people have projected on to Obama what ever they wanted. No real left leaning- I don’t meaning a liberal-progressive- has a chance in a national American election. Since, Americans for the most part are conservative. We get in politician who we are.
So stop complaining “progressives” and get real, and vote for Obama and let’s move on to another 4 years of who knows what.
“Yes we" can have hope in the establishment to come up with new solutions to our problems. They have failed before.
Ralph, it is you. Brian is just doing his job, and fairly.
You don't agree with Obama's position on the FISA bill. Okay. Neither do I. But do you prefer McCain's or Obama's position on:
-the need for health care reform?
-the war in Iraq?
-taxes and tax breaks?
-energy and environmental policy?
-the economy?
Would you vote for McCain (and I include "third party" votes and "staying home" as votes for McCain) because you don't like Obama's thoughtful, nuanced positions on FISA or capital punishment the second amendment?
I find this position incredible. Are you a progressive? If so, why would you vote for McCain?
"Progessives!" Listen to someone with an independent mind...
There is more to life than whatever upsets you today, tomorrow, next week, or any other time in the immediate future.
After 8 years of GWB & Co. we will have a democratic president & congress and there will be a policy shift that will indicate this.
If you silly people got your way you and many others would vote for the third party candidate, you would be successful in "punishing" Obama and his supporters when he loses to McCain, then we get more supreme court decisions like the ones you are moaning about... for decades... and they will be more severe and profoundly conservative.
But I guess it won't be so bad for you. At least you'll have more to complain about, more to feel betrayed about.
By the way, why don't you start a third party with the conservative posters & callers who pretend to be disgruntled progressives/HRC supporters?
chris o #26,
Some of us have trouble with the double standards. People excoriate a candidate for behaving this way but excuse anything at all if they happen to like him/her. I find it intellectually childish.
Ayanna,
They both suck on health care reform. McCain just sucks harder.
We don't do permanent banishment from our communities, and there are some crimes for which it would be immoral to export the perpetrators to other communities.
And so, there are some crimes which merit banishment from the human race. That's the death penalty. Priests who prey sexually on children? The killer of John Lennon? They simply have lost their right to live.
In spite of this, I am still opposed to the death penalty. That is, I think that some crimes merit the death penalty, but I do not trust that we use it in a fair/unbiased/infallible manner. If minorities and/or poor are more likely to get the death penalty that whites and/or the rich, then it is applied unjustly and I cannot support that. If the standards are different from one group than for another, even with exactly the same crime, then it is not simply a punishment for the crime, and I cannot support punishing people for their skin color or lack of money.
This is a punishment that cannot be revoked. There no way to compensate someone wrongly put to death.
The problem is in the implementation, not the idea that some crimes -- even other than murder -- call for such a pentalty.
Shame on WNYC for running, unrebutted, McCain's hypocritical slur of Obama over rejecting public campaign funding.
McCain himself is UNDER INVESTIGATION after disobeying the Republican chair of the Federal Election Commission. McCain made an explicit contract with the FEC to accept public financing for the primaries. After he won New Hampshire, however, he claimed he could just unilaterally opt out. See:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-burrell/mccains-public-financing_b_109478.html
FEC chairman David Mason wrote a letter explicitly disabusing him of this mistaken interpretation of the law and insisting that McCain was still bound by the terms of the public financing system.
McCain has since exceeded the public financing spending limits by millions and will be tens of millions over the cap by the convention.
Sadly, WNYC is not alone in allowing the Republican attack machine to levy this allegation unfairly and without context. McCain's getting the kid gloves all around.
This is what happens when we nominate someone we don't really new.
AWM,
From one independant to another: I feel perfectly capable and comfortable voting for Obama in Nov., while at the same time criticising him for positions I disagree with and laughing at his supporters who voted for him because of the "chamge" brand.
I oppose death penalty but not because I feel sorry for person sentenced. First reason is that capital punishment is not prevention. My little acquaintance with criminals tells me that they do not think about severity of punishment. They normally think that the person who was punished is just stupid though they are smart and will never be punished.
Second is that in many cases the crime is not proven sufficiently. We had recently many people sentenced to death are proven innocent.
Third, I believe that the person who executes the person who is unable to resist is getting into the monster over the time himself/herself. Unless capital punishment is done purely by computer it is not a good task for the human.
As to owning arms I support it with proper reservation and liability insurance attached to it. This way it is not government but insurance companies will decide who can and who can not have a gun. We all have insurance policies for cars and they are not made to kill anybody. Attaching insurance to guns will stop gun running when one person is buying few guns to sell them on the streets of New York. If they need to apply for insurance at the time of buying them this business will disappear.
mc #38,
So comfortable.
The point is to criticize without whining about how he somehow betrayed a progressive agenda that many of these people projected on to him, an agenda that NO candidate could win with anyway.
"Change" doesn't happen in a vaccum, you have to view the process in the context of reality and with pragmatism. The only change these people need is a diaper change.
AWM,
I'm not whining, I am so comfortable.
I agree about the diaper changes. Anyone who bought the brand was not paying close attentin. They get no sympathy from me if they have buyer's remorse now.
See my post #7. By his own admission he is a blank screen.
mc,
Wasn't calling you a whiner.
Try this quote from him...
"Actually, one of my favorites during the political season is 'Maggie's Farm,'" Obama said of one of Dylan's tracks. "It speaks to me as I listen to some of the political rhetoric."
In the song, Dylan sings about trying be himself, "but everybody wants you to be just like them."
You will never move the agenda by capitulating to positions you find entirely immoral. There has to be some point at which you say "so far and no farther."
ask assembly woman whether she owns a gun
#43,
YES! And right now, in this time of peace and prosperity, it the best possible time to send a message to Obama. A McCain presidency will show him!
AWM,
I didn't think you were. I like those Dylan tracks too.
I wish people could be more pragmatic but also more plugged into what the candidates have actually said and done. There would be fewer collective surprises.
This is madness. The culture of illegal guns can flourish because the culture of legal guns supports it.
This woman is out of her mind
There are thousands of ways to stay SAFE other than wielding a firearm. Bear spray, a knife, a loud scream, a baseball bat, a telephone (911), throwing stars, sturdy locks.
Most home invaders are probably non-violent drug addicts. Petty thieves.
Here in NYC we have seen that even law enforcement officers fire weapons when they should not.
I do not want untrained civilians wielding guns in my city.
I am a stone-cold liberal, but I am under no illusions about Obama enacting the kind of progressive agenda I would love to see. Instead, if elected, I expect him to correct the radically conservative trend of Supreme Court justices, bring home the majority of troops in Iraq, promote a serious federal policy of energy conservation and aggressive emissions-reduction, and provide us with a viable government-funded alternative to the rapacious health insurance companies. If he were to accomplish any of these goals, I would be thrilled.
Change we can believe in, indeed.
I have to confess that I have sympathy for people like Susan #43. You have a choice of two major candidates neither of which really addresses your concerns. If you boycott or vote third party often you risk electing the worse of the two majors. So how do you make yourself heard?
What I have decided to do is to vote for what I think is the lesser of two evils but to be a persistant gadfly at the one I have chosen. I also support third parties on the local level.
I respect any choice anyone in my position makes. It sucks to feel "stuck" with one or the other.
The assembly woman sounds like someone who has never been personally touched by gun violence. More accidental deaths happen that thwarted home invasions.
Classic gun scenario: rural person argues for their right to have guns. The fact is that there is no use for a gun in an urban setting. Of course, it's not realistic to put a wall between urban and rural areas...or is it! Forget Mexico, let's put a wall around every city, and make them gun-free zones by converting them to schools where we educate people (unlike rural areas).
Pavel (39): The insurance idea is wonderful, I've never heard it before. Do you know if any politicians have attempted to bring this in to the discussion?
regardless of one's position on capital punishment, if you legislate the death penalty for crimes other than murder, such as rape, all you will get is murdered rape victims.
Here we go again! Let everyone carry a weapon, concealed or otherwise. Whatever happened to civility in society? How in god's name does anyone feel safer with a gun? How often does a licensed gun owner get the opportunity to use their guns during the commission of a crime? what are the statistics? How does one ensure that only those duly licensed, obtain guns? Can't! the answer is not to allow more guns in society but to teach morals and values and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". That doesn't mean becoming the Wild West (America).
A relatively well known fact (among injury researchers and police officers) is that of those police officers who were shot, 25% were shot with their OWN GUN. And these guys are well TRAINED on the use of their weapons. Do you really think a regular 'Joe' supposedly carrying a gun for his/her protection is going to have more success?
I think not.
Maybe instead of making it easier to hold a gun legally, we make an effort to get illegal guns off the streets. Seems to me like we've given up on our legal system, when we allow each citizen the right to bear arms. As to the congress woman, I don't think she's thought through a scenario, where that scary criminal breaks into her house, she threatens him with her handgun, and he overtakes it, which is a common scenario. I hope she never has to deal with that or with a moody teenager accidentally using it on him/herself.
Whenever punishments for "child" rape are discussed, I wonder whether the child is a 'Legal child - under 18 or 21, or the child is a child of 7. I consider, in view of the changing mores of our time, whether the age of a statutory rape victim is not relevant when the female is a 15 year old, dressed like a Brittany Spears, should not be evaluated differently. To the 21 year-old man involved, she did not appear to be a child but an inviting female. He would be punished for not seeking confirmation of her adult status.
The rapist of a 7 year-old should be punished very severely but not the rapist of the "Brittany".
This thread is closed.
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