On Demand
Follow-Up Friday: Blackberry Overtime Blues
Earlier this week we spoke to Maggie Jackson about her book Distracted, which knocks multitasking. Then we learned about a squabble between ABC News and the Writers Guild of America East over whether employees should be paid for time spent on their Blackberrys outside of work hours. Penelope Trunk, who writes the Brazen Careerist blog, joins us to look at whether handheld email machines are a perk or a pain.
- About the Brian Lehrer Show »
- Staff Bios »
- Contact Us »
- Tapes and Transcripts »
- Latest Episode »
- Show Archive »
Features & Series
Podcast
Stay up to date.
Subscribe to the Podcast
YOU PRODUCE The Brian Lehrer Show
Be a listener-producer with facts, questions and people you'd like to hear on the air.
More
The Brian Lehrer Show Scrapbook
Visit the scrapbook for daily photos and miscellany from The Brian Lehrer Show.
More
Shop at Amazon!
The Brian Lehrer Show picks
Start your Amazon shopping on WNYC.org and a portion of your total purchase goes to WNYC.
More
Comments
Perhaps all those who have jobs requiring the use of Blackberrys, pda, whatevers, should be paid on a salary, not hourly. Their salary is reflective of the work accomplished not the time needed to accomplish it.
On the general concept, I wonder if there has been study as to whether the distraction factor holds the same for both men and women? I have noticed (and by way of full disclosure I am a woman) that I am more facile at "multi-tasking," or "switch-tasking" as I think Jackson puts it, than the men in my life. But they are quicker at making decisions. Can women toggle better, but men decide more quickly? And I hope this isn't taken as a "my gender is better than yours" query.
Women definately multi-task better than men. Women decide things more emotionally and logically, men just think with logic or with the brain with less brain cells.
In other fields where people are salaried and work for free overtime (such as the financial industry) for many hours, people do not get overtime paid. I don't see why they should get paid only to check their emails.
Ch, if it has something to do with gender, it missed me. I simply cannot really do two things at once-- a more accurate term would be, as you say, "switch-tasking"-- and I am very skeptical about our real ability even to do that very well. I think many people think they can, because they don't feel comfortable concentrating on one thing for an extended period.
This person is an good example of the theological mind set: she believes she can have total control. It's also typical of American mind set: let the market intrude onto our lives; let us devote ourselves to work: a career brazenist. Let's be serious. Is she Ayn Rand? Didn't her acolyte Greenspan get us into financial trouble?
It's important to always be working and producing for our Capitalist, instead of engaging in what might be subversive personal activity away from the company.
Whenever I'm with someone who has to check their cell messages or Blackberry, I feel like they're not really there with me. It's really discouraging. It's as if there's some other option they're hoping for or some other place they'd rather be. Routine face-to-face human relations have become so warped. It's sad, really.
Penelope is very condescending and has a very simplistic view of things.
This woman is a nut. And obnoxious. What's wrong with not wantign to be tied to your blackberry always, even in a "healthy" or mindful way?
It is absolutely not arrogant to say these generations cannot connect. This guest is patently offensive.
I agree with Paul. This caller is plain rude. Get her off the air.
What is wrong with this guest?!?! Talk about arrogance!
Brazen?? that's an understatement.
Yeah, your guest is a rude jerk, sorry. She's got some good points to make, but I'd rather not have your guests insult your callers.
Penelope needs to switch to decaf.
This guest is incredibly arrogant. She stereotypes everyone over 35 and tries to shout down the callers. I'm under 35 and I find her insufferable.
PS Ms. Trunk was just unbelievably rude and condescending to that last caller. I am going to make sure I don't buy her book.
Ms. Trunk is very flippant and irritating. Please do not ask her back on the show (or any show).
this guest takes herself way too seriously to really be serious.
I agree with the caller (Paul?) that people give more importance to their little gadget than the person/people they're walking with!
This guest is just obnoxious...
What's up with this guest? Why is she so aggressive to callers who disagree with her views?
why is this woman the authority on this subject?? theres no sociological basis for any of her comments. wtf.
Forget about blackberry usage, your guest, Penelope, is incredibly rude in general. That last caller was a loyal listener and didn't deserve to be spoken to like that and attacked personally.
I find this author to be incredibly rude and disrespectful. I'm surpised she wasn't weeded out of the process before she got on the air.
Don't like the disrespectful tone of your guest. Very judgmental and unwelcoming of different points of view...not what WNYC's spirit is generally about!
This is one of the most aggressive, unproductive guests I've ever heard. Who thinks to attack callers?
BOO to this horrendous person.
Please remove this guest... she's horrible.
This woman is totally missing the point - when you're company issues you a blackberry you are expected to be reachable at ALL times, turning it off and saying you 'didn't get the email' doesn't cut it. The only way to avoid this is to A)be your own boss, or B)Don't accept a blackberry from your company.
I think the "Brazen Careerist" is far more arrogant about her opinions than any of the callers have been.
Your guest is horrible. She is rude and clearly needs to spend more time with living people to develop some simple social skills. If she represents the future, I fear for the future.
I don't find Paul's assertion as arrogant. I am 26, and I am inclined to agree. My generation connects in different ways, but I have noticed a breakdown of priorities in connectivity. But there are priorities, and your brazen careerist guest Penelope seems more like an exhausting opportunist.
Agree or disagree with her, she's a horribly rude, condescending and arrogant guest. Please don't have her back on WNYC on any show.....
She behaved despicably to the 49 year old male caller......
I think that Penelope Trunk is way too defensive about blackberry use!!! I don't get it, she sounds like an addict unaware of her addition.
I practiced law for seven years and actually left the practice, in large part, because the expectation has become that, if you have a blackberry, you are available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, on vacation, during religious holidays, etc. I feel that I have good prioritizing skills, but ran into so many significant conflicts with the people I worked for because I was unavailable at certain times (including on Easter, which I specifically told the people I work with that I would not be available on that day). I find that the problem is that the people on the other end of the blackberry don't have their priorities in check and think that it's acceptable to harass you 24/7 over things that are not time sensitive.
I'm sure the "Brazen Careerist" said that I should find another employer. I did. However, I've found that this attitude is widespread in the legal profession, at least at large corporate firms. It makes me sad that I have to choose between good, interesting work and a life.
What an obnoxious guest! I'm surprised anyone wold want to communicate with her under any circumstances!
Ugh!
This women is crazy. She needs to get off her crackberry and experience the real world!
Penelope Trunk should be sunk. Horrible, horrible guest.
What's-her-face is so incredibly arrogant and insulting, I can't believe anyone is still talking to her. "Paul" was so right, it's a generational thing, and i'm part of it. People don't connect, because they *think* they are connecting when they e-touch. It's hilariously ignorant to believe that they know about people when they substitute crackberries for real communication. Point-in-case, your guest is so out of touch with how to talk to people, she sounds hostile and offensive to your callers. And, sorry, this is the first generation to be able to work well in teams? Is she crazy?
It's amazing/hilarious to listen to the female guest's comments on how to justify her addiction- she sounds just like all the other addicts out there!
Well done, caller Paul. The guest calling someone arrogant who holds a differing opinion is an unfortunate byproduct of this era of texting abbreviation and 15-second soundbytes. She is selling a book, and apparently stuck in a hyper-tech bubble.
Um, what makes this woman an expert in human behavior. This is the worst guest I have ever heard on this show. Though, since she's so infuriating, maybe she's great for getting people interested.
She checks her mail while she's driving and she's accusing OTHER people of being unable to prioritize!!??!!??!!
Your guest is very narrow sighted, insecure, and rude to that last caller named Paul. He was describing what seemed more PRESENT for him. I happen to agree with him entirely, and you could be a bit more fair treating the callers versus your guest. The guest is very contentious and mean--she makes personal attacks rather than objective comments, without knowing anyone, or anything.
This woman is obnoxious. What a freak. Take your corporate phone and stuff it.
What a fake.....
Penelope is not going to sell many books by insulting possible readers.
What a shame that you are subject to the arrogant, myopic, rude, immature rantings of this woman. Her unwillingness to listen to others' points of view, her easy dismissal of any idea that doesn't support her idea, her insults to callers--I'm sure that she's going to sell a LOT of books! Who on earth would want to take in another word that this woman produces?
The last caller was correct. The guest is being quite rude.
re: the show in general-- if your workplace requires you to do work outside of work hours, you should be compensated for it.
I really agree with the last caller. Anyone "important enough" to need to be contacted immediately has an assistant or a liaison to handle any critical issues.
I think the priority that needs to be established is how important is the data-inflow from the Blackberry, really? In most cases, I would guess: not very.
Andrea,
What do you think about people over-using their iPods?
This is also a form of distraction that I constantly see. People are always tuned into their iPods. I've seen people with iPods at dinner, holding conversations while each listening to their music!
It's just plain weird.
RESPOND TO YOUR LISTENERS! THIS WOMEN IS OFFENSIVE AND SHOULD BE TAKEN OFF THE AIR.
This woman will die, ironically, when the blackberry eats what's left of her brain. She's just such a go-getter...her get-up-and-go fills me with feelings of lie-down-and-die. THIS woman is EXACTLY why I consider moving out of New York every single day.
Never have Penepole Trunk on wnyc again...please!!!
What a terrible guest!
This woman is probably getting *paid* by Blackberry. She can't believe that people are making a choice whether to own a Blackberry in the same way as whether to own a TV, pay for an internet connection, or not.
I personally find her insulting.
Trunk is the rudest guest ever on this show. This woman should never be invited back on the show.
She is remarkably arrogant about what she calls "her generation" yet has the nerve to accuse a caller as beign arrogant.
To eastvillage (#5): Well said!!!
Just the fact that this commentator uses the word "boring" so much tells you a lot about her. Are there not better things to talk about on a widely broadcast radio program? Does "unpleasantness" ever disqualify a guest?
She argues that he is judgemental about a generation but so is she. She obviously has a alot of issues.
Ms Trunk is more suited to rude-a-thon of The TakeAway, not the usually discussion-driven Brian Lehrer show.
Worst.
Your guest is part of the problem. She's a simpleton unable to craft a thoughtful argument.
Please get rid of her.
It's like George Carlin (RIP) said on Brian's show a year ago...this technology has made us complacent. Now that we have "cell phones that make pancakes" we are no longer able to see things of major importance.
Anybody who uses a blackberry while driving should have their license yanked. And, your guest just said that she gets bored while driving?!?!? I didn't realize that operating dangerous and heavy machinery is boring!
I totally agree with Paul, this guest is a complete book hawking fool and needs to find more interesting friends that she can text while in bed! She's so DISS-connected from reality, go blog blog text blog away.
this woman is dreadful- what is she talking about? public space, manners, nature, the heck with all that.
apparently she's never been outside in new york city, where the blackberry stupefied zombies roam.
and no, this isn't the generation of people who work well with others- they never make eye contact, because they're looking at they're blackberries, and phones.
the most arrogant, brainwashed, insular person i've heard on BL.
Dump this guest. She's horrible. Never bring her back.
Wow, I think Penelope has a bit of an overstimulation problem, she sounds like she's about to combust. I invite her to try sitting with just herself and her thoughts.
Trunk is a horrible guest. Could she be anymore condescending?! What makes her an expert on Blackberry usage?!!! Please don't bring her back on the show - EVER!
And those people on their Blackberries crossing the street or riding bikes? They could soon be the recipient of a Darwin Award.
I think she was incredibly rude and arrogant. Almost laughable. Was she playing a certain role?
Perhaps Penelope might expand her views a little bit--- her obnoxious responses to callers are ridiculous. PS, I am not a boomer, and I think it is depressing to be constantly connected. I use a pda to manage my email etc when I am out of the office so I get to spend more time with my infant son, but it absolutely is a trap and a time suck. And she is full of herself if she actually thinks that all people under 30 are amazingly good at prioritizing. Get over yourself, girl!
... this woman is COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED and TOTALLY OBNOXIOUS! Being connected 24/7 is to be distracted. You can not make a 100% personal, human connection with anybody in person whist anticipating communication from some potential outside communication being beamed in. If you need a Crackberry to work while on vacation with your family then you WORK TOO MUCH!
GET A LIFE!!!
This is the most obnoxious guest I have heard in a while. Using media while talking to someone else is RUDE. Telling someone he is arrogant is RUDE too. Please don't have her again-thanks
Your guest today is a loser. She loves herself which is great because it is highly doubtful that anyone with her attitude and high level of self absorbtion has any friends. She needs her blackberry because she has no life.
I agree with Paul. This guest is a incredibly arrogant, shallow, self-centered corporate hack. Don't invite her back to WNYC or NPR again!
This blackberry woman is far and away the least intelligent person who has ever been a guest on this show. Wow. Talk about "arrogant."
I would think guests would be a little more thoroughly vetted before given the opportunity too insult entire generations of people on air and get all defensive like the not smart but loud person in a college classroom. Ick.
TUNE IN - DISCONNECT!!!
Seems Penolope is really a lonely person who can only communicate via filter. Poor, poor, Penolope. She ought to read Bowling Alone.
When I had a blackberry for work, I used to leave it at work at the end of the day. If anyone needed to reach me, they could call my cell. Btw, Penelope would have gotten my voicemail.
It’s true: Penelope is brazen. It’s also true that she was very rude to more than one caller on The Brian Lehrer show, till she were called on it. Her voice was craggy and annoying and she seems to have no clue as to the wrong notes she was hitting (i.e., [you don't know that. Maybe he couldn't be on vacation on the Appalachian Trail if he didn't take that call.]). I think I get it. She's one of those addicted people.
I am so tired of people saying they are "bored", as an excuse...if you need to be entertained all the time, there is something seriously wrong with you. Did you consider, perhaps, YOU may be boring.
I'm 35, I love technonolgy – but I know a thing or two about balancing my life onscreen and off.
I have always hired young people in my company and I have noticed in the past few years with new-hires that the quality of their work suffers because they are continually distracted. I have started to notice that many of them actually lack the intellectual skills to the same work their older counterparts were able to do just 5 years ago. Apparently they were distracted in school as well!
I'm not a Blackberry user; however, I am absolutely addicted to WNYC. If I have to walk away from my PC, I put on headphones and slip a portable radio into my pocket so I don't miss anything.
Thanks WNYC! You're the best!
Wow. I find myself wondering how Brian would have managed this guest. My hope is that he would simply cut the segment short and move on to a call-in, or even better: use his amazing powers of articulation to put this person in her place! I feel bad for Andrea that she had to deal with that.
I feel sorry for Penelope. She was humilitated by letting herself get so aggressive. She barked at a sweet 29 year old man calling for more human connection. Later, she called canoeing "boring" out of embarrassment and anger. And then she baseically told another listener to "get a life" implying his friends aren't adequate. I would hate to meet such a bitter, misguided person!
This could have been an interesting segment, too bad you booked such a terrible guest. You usually have greats guests, who are credible, articulate and knowledgeable. Penelope fell way short of your standard.
I'm in agreement with [7] John, and I think it's great that that one caller admonished Penelope Trunk to stop trying to sell her book after she accused him of being arrogant.
I'm bothered too when people I'm with start checking their text messages. And despite what Ms. Trunk argued, that kind of behavior has nothing to do with the quality of my friendships and more to do with individual personalities and lifestyles. I think some people are just more focused on what's in front of them while others feel involved by keeping in constant touch with their friends.
It is truly funny that Penelope Trunk would be outraged and call one of the callers
'arrogant' for basically pigeonholing an entire generation, while she did exactly that a few minutes earlier.
The difference is that the caller actually had an interesting point while Ms Trunk's world is sadly simplistic.
I am disappointed WNYC would have such a guest in a show - who is trying to ride an underdeveloped one-liner. (and on a more personal level: Ms Trunk is rude and obnoxious.)
To zak (49)--this woman is obviously not a NYCer. Listen to her accent.
Agree with most of the comments above. This woman is one of the rudest, narrow-minded guests I've ever heard on the BL show. Don't know why she wasn't screened more properly. She is not in the usual caliber of a BL guest. SHE is the arrogant bore, not the callers who were trying to have intelligent discourse. Please, never have her back on again.
And Andrea's done a great job this week!
I have to agree with the posts above. This could have been an interesting discussion. Unfortunately, your guest didn't seem interested in exploring the issue, only in insulting callers who didn't agree with her point of view. She has a lot of learn about communication.
Penelope Trunk is a pain! She's an ageist; how arrogant to assume that older generations are less capable of running their lives or working efficiently and capably, with or without Blackberries. Multi-tasking is best left to computers; humans can't really do it, so don't brag about it. What people do is switch from one task to the next, often losing concentration and requiring extra time to get back up to speed.
As for boredom, anyone who is bored without being "connected" via some electronic gizmo or the other is without inner resources. I'd be embarrassed EVER to say I was bored!
Did Ms. Trunk get PAID to be on the air and dispense her twaddle? Ugh. I expect (and usually get) much better from WNYC.
All the self-management jargon that Trunk comes up with is really funny and absurd. Not only does she advocate letting work take over your life, she wants corporate culture to take over your entire personality. Now that your guest has been exposed as the arrogant, self-serving tool she is, I hope nobody takes her seriously or buys her ridiculous book.
Finally, she's off the air! I have to agree, Penelope was a horrible guest and should never be asked to return. I actually turned my volume all the way down, to avoid having to hear any more of her.
Penelope's comments to one of the callers regarding his choice of friends and how the messages are obviously more important than the person, is a good indicator to her lack of manners as well as a good argument against what she's trying to defend. The mindset that there must obviously be something wrong with the person being ignored and not the device creating the distraction is abnoxious. I can't imagine anyone with this perspective of social interaction being much of an expert on anything. What an arrogant, abnoxious, disrespectful guest... I wouldn't want her for a friend either.
@95
Trunk was actually rather fascinating to listen to, in the same way that watching a car-wreck is horrific and yet fascinating. People who think like her or actually believe the nonsense she preaches are what is wrong with this world.
Hi Andrea,
Thanks for hearing me out. I just think your guest had real chuzpah to get into things on a personal level with callers. She had no tactic other than to try to undermine the comments of each guest in the most antagonistic way possible.
That's unfortunate as WNYC usually means real dialogue to me.
Sincerely, Paul
The Blackberry is a fine tool.
It tends to be /overused/ by people with poor self esteem, short attention spans, problems making friends, and prefer superficial abstraction to direct thoughtful discourse.
These folks use the Blackberry as a shield to /prevent/ other human beings from communicating with them, and to avoid having to interact with the rest of us who are, well, /healthy/.
Your guest personifies many of these traits. She's just not healthy, not capable of crafting a cogent and thoughtful argument, passive aggressive (do you think she would say anything rude face-to-face ;-) -- naw, she would txt u).
Anyway, please do not use WNYC as an open therapy session. This guest did not belong here.
I just want to know one thing: when do these obsessive-compulsives have time to read??? As in read books of all kinds, including serious literature? Including books about politics, the arts, sciences, history etc.-- everything that makes for an educated person, dare I say a citizen of the world...
No wonder this country is so politically and socially and culturally retarded. How can this generation CHANGE anything if they are stuck to their digital gadgetry like this??? This country is going nowhere, I predict, but downhill.
Laugh this Out of Touch Guest Out of Touch Guest Right off the Air.
Arrogant? Takes offense to broad statements and then says her generation doesn't even use the term "information overload"
She seem to be out of touch with current knowledge from the realms of psychology, marketing, and plain oberservation of people of different ages in offices and in public.
It's patently ridiculous for your guest to make this sweeping statement about the "constant prioritizing" her generation is making.
As to the politician who wouldn't be able to take the hike without the blackberry or the friend who just doesn't consider the other caller priority enough to "be present" in the moment...that's laughable to anyone of average intelligence.
Further, there are entire industries where you can work yourself day and night and yes, you will close more sales, byut then why not work holidays and forget about vacations? My business involves a sliding scale and the technology has simply crossed a grey line and reduced our quality of life.
As to multitasking: review the scientific studies, they show the spoiled brats think they can get more done but it is well established that they DO NOT.
iT'S the mark of the truly important who can put limits in this grey area, and every CEOs dream to turn off the intrusions for better life, health, and reasoned decisions.
I second Meghan Murphy's comment.
Ms. Trunk was given the opportunity to insult entire generations of WNYC listeners.
Dear Ms. McGovern, please vet your guests to insure civil dialogue.
Maybe this is why she's so obnoxious!
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/05/22/keeping-an-eye-on-my-career-while-i-go-through-a-divorce/#comments
This thread is closed.
1 | 2 | Next | Back to Episode