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The Day After
The final primary has come and gone. We analyze the results and talk politics with local political leaders and analysts including House Ways and Means Committee Chair Charles Rangel (D-NY-15th District-Upper Manhattan), Marie Cocco, syndicated columnist with the Washington Post Writers Group, and Melissa Harris-Lacewell, associate professor of Politics and African American Studies at Princeton University.
Chairman Rangel's website
Professor Harris-Lacewell's website
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Yes, I agree with Marie that Hillary was gracious in her speech last night no matter what the other pundits say. Obama needs to show the proper respect and give the nomination to Hillary. Yes,I agree with Marie that Hillary won in all the important states. Toobin on CNN should be fired for disrespecting Hillary. Hillary won the popular vote by anyone's calculation except the bias media. Hillary needs time to think about her loss for a couple of days because it came to a complete suprise to her.
(I think this will summarized Marie Coco's unbiased comments later this morning.)
Presidential historian M. Beschloss put it best on Tuesday's Jim Lehrer show: “we've heard so much from her about how she has benefited from her experience. I think, in this process, she was a victim of her experience.” His point was that she used king-kong-style 1996 and 2000 strategies she'd learned from her husband... but that no longer worked against an opponent who was so adept at exploiting internet-based social networking.
Okay, also, as Andrea Bernstein put it, "he's a force of nature." I hit the beach tonight and everyone was just pumped about the nomination. I think Hillary's been conned into thinking she can only be great in politics. She likely has talents far outside the political sphere - she'd make a bad-assed and very saucy TV talk show host. It would give her a chance to loosen up and who's to say you're not more influential as the next Oprah? Who's to say the person who solves the health care crisis has to be inside the white house?
Hillary pulled an A-Rod yesterday. She stepped on Obama’s nomination win just like A-Rod stepped on the 2007 World Series. News that A-Rod opted out of his contract broke just as the Red Sox were about to win the World Series. News that Hillary was open to being the VP nominee broke on the day that Obama reached the magic number. To Hillary supporters who can’t fathom my dislike of her, it’s hubris like this that gets under my skin. Hillary is trying to bully her way on to this ticket and it’s a disgusting spectacle.
I hope Hillary’s supporters (mc, hjs, etc) were impressed by her "unity" speech. Forgive me for not clapping. I second Andrew Sullivan’s reaction: “Classless, graceless, shameless, relentless. Pure Clinton.” If mc and hjs truly value unity, I hope they contact Hillary’s campaign and call for her to endorse Obama now. Any sane, rational person in Hillary’s situation would follow Katrina vanden Heuvel’s advice and “exit this historic race, gracefully, with dignity.” Hillary had her chance to do so last night and she blew it. She is the ultimate anti-gravitas candidate of the 2008 season.
Question for Hillary supporters: How much time and space does your candidate require to work out the final details of her exit strategy? How much slack are we obliged to cut her? I know she got millions of votes. It was a close race but she lost. Obama does not owe Hillary a job in his administration. She is a sitting US senator from the 3rd largest state in the Union. NY’s GOP is a joke, so Hillary effectively has this seat for life. To Hillary fans who feel that it’s a horrible injustice for Obama not to choose Hillary for VP, I say cry me a river.
Congrats to Barack Obama for his historic win!! This was truly a David vs. Goliath story. An unknown senator going up against the media's anointed nominee. Hillary had all the advantages of an incumbent and yet Obama managed to take it away from her. Obama has 2 more obstacles to overcome. First, resist the frenzied, hysterical demands by the pundits to take Hillary for VP. Second, beat McCain in Nov. Good Luck with final chores Senator!
mc, hjs, james, chestinee, and others...
I had hoped to login early enough to escape any of the Obama gloating. Alas, too late. The jackboots are already on Sen. Clinton's throat this morning. This message is for you, for people I've stood with on these pages.
I've had it. If the Democratic leadership wants to fly in the face of the will of the people, if they want to push Sen. Clinton out, so be it. They pushed her out, and they push me out. I posed the question last week whether there was room under this "Democratic umbrella" for me. The answer is no, there isn't.
The slime of the Democratic leadership is nastier than anything I've ever seen the GOP do, even Rove.
I've already printed out my voter registration change and just have to decide whether to go with unaffiliated or Working Families Party. (mc, thanks for the suggestion. I will look into it before deciding.)
Nor do I intend to return to these boards. Tolarance of other opinion is one thing, but immersion in the Obama shark tank is another.
I'll miss you guys. Too bad it did not turn out the way it should have, the way the majority of the people wanted it to.
d!
it's time to look at the big picture. who do u want to pick the next supreme court judges?
why judge obama by a few posters?
The Clintons have always been selfish and couldn't care less about the greater good. Bill dragged the country through the tortuous period of Monica/Impeachment to hang on to the presidency. Hillary couldn't give a damn about what happens to the Democratic party if she's not the nominee and would like to see Obama lose in November so Lady Macbeth can come back in 2012.
By the way, I'm a Reagan Republican (and a WNYC member--believe it or not). I have been amused seeing the Democrats (who I was told are ones that aren't mean-spirited like the Republicans, right?) being at each other's throats. I NEVER voted for Bush, either in 2000 or 2004. I'm looking forward to John McCain restoring the Republican party back to its Reagan roots of peace, prosperity and global leadership, and disassociating itself from Bush forever (kind of like what the Democrats did with Carter). I'll agree with my fellow WNYC listeners on this point: Bush is the worst president ever; Bill Clinton has moved up to second worst ever.
seth,
I am not sure if you are serious about a response from HRC's supporters, but I will give it the benefit of the doubt. I will not consider speaking for her campaign, I have no position on how long this should take. I have no position on who should be VP.
Here is what I do think. This is not about her any more, it is about the Nov. race. I know that you probably think that means she should just disappear but I think that there are millions of her supporters who feel that she was not treated fairly, not necessarily by Obama, but by the media and by some of the Dem. leadership.
Hillary supporters,
Did any of you watch the morning cable shows? All of the talk was What does Hillary want? How should Obama deal with Hillary? Hillary could have prevented this chatter if she had announced a suspension of her campaign last night and endorsed Obama and if she stated she wasn't interested in the VP spot. Hillary's ego is delaying party unity. The MSM won't focus on McCain vs. Obama because Hillary is refusing to concede. David, hjs - You're living in another universe. Hillary lost fair and square. If results were reversed, I would have called for Obama to endorse Hillary on the night she clinched the nomination.
seth,
To continue. I gather from many of the posters here that many think that either she was not treated unfairly or that she deserved it. We could argue that forever - the problem is that there are many who feel that way, and we need them in Nov. I have said over and over, that I made my choice based on who I thought had better solutions but that if he were the choice of most Dems I was OK with that. I accept that he is the choice of most Dems. I am OK with that. I am tired of being characterized as being somehow deficient (Wright's word), because I don't completely reject her.
seth,
So here we are. We need her supporters to win in Nov. I don;t know what the solution is - I don't want him to feel forced to choose her as VP, but I do think he needs to acknowledge the raw feelings on the part of many of her supporters and find a way to make them feel they are not taken for granted, lest they stay home in Nov.
I am not that emotionally tied into this, despite what eva and some others seem to think. I will never vote for McCain, but I can also imagine worse, particularly with a Dem Senate holding him in check.
What I would like to see from Obama is a sharpening of his economic message and he needs to re-think that ridiculous health care plan. That is something I do care about, more than either BHO or HRC. So far, his refusal to do that reads to me as a message that he doesn't think it's important enough.
That said: it's still better than McCain, so no contest there.
David!
Where ever have you been?
Umm, David:
What's with this claim of being personally attacked? Ok, so you're a little bit pissed that your candidate didn't get the nod. Your reaction to certain posters on this site is way, way, way, over the top.
Really man, get your priorities straight. Either the republican or the democrat is going to take over the White House this year. Is Sen. Obama so horrible, so wrong, so damaging to what I assume are your democratic political principals that you would rather see a continuation of the damage that has been committed by, literally, one of the worst presidents in the history of this country?
Can any one of us really afford to be that self-righteous?
David!
I don't know what district you live in, but consider that if you drop out of the Dem party you may lose any voice you had in local elections, which are often decided at the primary level. I have a nasty councilman who is now running for State Senate, so I need to stay in to help stop him.
If that were not the case I would have dropped out a long time ago. I hate party lines, and I hate the NY Dem rules of ballot access, etc. So in general elections I always vote my choice on the Working Families line if I can, just to keep them on the ballot.
mc #10,
I was serious about a response which is why I raised the issue. All I expect from Hillary is for her to announce a suspension of her campaign and an endorsement of Obama. I'm not asking for her to grovel or humiliate herself. I'd like to see her acknowledge the fact that Obama has won. I don't understand why she needs a cooling off period. She was the victim of sexist remarks, but she finished the race. Her supporters need to suck it up and move on.
Well, Hillary definitively demonstrated that she is no "Gore 2000" -- by refusing to give up without a fight.
Now will she try to take a page from Cheney's book -- and steer the White House from the Naval Observatory?
Very very easy to imagine.
seth,
I think you are right, we should expect a concession and an endorsement sooner rather than later, and I think it will come.
I appreciate your remarks about her not grovelling and that possibly she has suffered unfair treatment, but I still think he won fair and square, the sexism did not change the outcome in my view, just made it nastier.
"Her supporters need to suck it up" is a low blow. Those are the people we need, and that ain't going to get it done.
The longer Hillary refuses to formally concede and endorse Obama, the stronger the bruised feelings of her supporters will grow. Hillary is smart enough to grasp this fact. This is why I'm frustrated. The media narrative is now frozen and the pundits won't let it thaw out until they see Hillary concede and endorse.
seth,
Interesting point about the media narrative. I call it the mega-narrative. I sense the beginning of a shift. From my point of view they have had a crush on him for some time now, and the loop we kept hearing is that there was no way she could win and when would she quit. Well now it's over and now I see a shift. They are starting to question his qualifications and experience and they are starting to go soft on her. Weird, isn't it? What makes me nervous is that they like an arc (it makes a good narrative). He has been built up; when will they start to tear at him? The story is always, build it up then tear it down.
David! you owe this board an apology. Its kind of sad that who have taking up the mantle of victim hood.
mc #20,
"suck it up" was not intended as a low blow. I couldn't think of a better phrase. Hillary's race was historic because of her gender. but candidates win and lose all the time. It's a 50/50 proposition. Supporters of losing candidates are justifiably disappointed. It's up to the losing candidate to set the tone for her followers. Hillary missed her chance last nite. I hope she does the right thing by the end of this week.
I do believe it is quite unseemly the way Clinton surrogates are making such a big deal that she should be VP. I think this is unprecedented in history. It is very inappropriate and negative. It is almost literally un-believable.
mc #22,
The MSM loves drama and suspense and Hillary's speech has them salivating like crazy. The pundits are in ecstasy talking about every possible Hillary scenario. I had to turn off the TV because it was becoming too nauseating for me to watch.
And on another note: McCain's speech was pretty lame. I heard he said "change" 31 times. He speaks of this election being about the future and I'm like, "Oh you are endorsing Obama?"
This Clinton supporter congratulates Obama and now supports him, although there was much in the primary process I considered unfair.
She should now leverage her political capital for the public good.
My question now is WILL THE HILLARY BASHING STOP?
Did you read Maureen Dowd this morning? "Hillary has been trying to emasculate Obama," is only one example of her shallow, sexist assaults. Maybe Ms. Dowd should pick up one of those airport gift shop nutcrackers.
Hillary needs to use her political capital! Hillary has a lot more substance than the preacher that won the nomination!
The shallow American electorate will NOT elect Michelle O-Ba-Ma to be the terminally angry 'First Lady' of the United States of America.
The More intellectual of the American Electorate will NOT elect a flashy, ½-term Senator who is terminally 'Liberal'-> no matter what color his skin is!!
Not to worry- Senator John McCain will be elected President of the United States by America's 'Silent Majority'!
seth #24,
I'm glad you did not mean it as a low blow. Can you see why it looked that way to me? I think she'll come around.
#26 Agreed about being nauseated. I also think the pious Anderson Cooper types are so busy congratulating themselves on how not racist they are that they missed how racist they ARE, as well as how sexist. Very shallow.
Chris O, Agreed. Oyy!
Bobby G. Forget Maureen Dowd. She's the Ann Coulter of the left. She bashed Al Gore in 2000 and a few weeks ago was asking him to settle the race. Just because she's a lefty does not make her any better than Coulter.
Yeah, airport nutcrackers. I saw one in Park Slope of all places. Liberal, progressive Park Slope.
Its good to see in this boards how the "democrats" are divided by this ridiculously long race. Good luck in November, not that i want a mccain in office, but that what it seems like we are getting. Whoohooo!
I hope hillary gets her ass kicked to the curb.
Thank god this crap is over.
RE: This morning's statement by Pelosi, Reid and Dean
I may have missed this, but have Pelosi, Reid or Dean made their endorsement known yet? All I've heard since March is that they strongly urge Supers to make their pledge known after the final primary. Okay. But how about putting your money where your mouth is. The best way they can encourage any stragglers, still hopeful that this could go on to the convention, is to follow their own advice by clearly pledging and endorsing.
Hillary needs to put on her big girl underpants and deal with it. If she loves this country like she so tearfully said she did in that famous clip, she would concede with grace and dignity and put the country's interests ahead of her own selfish ones. She should concede, congratulate and endorse Obama, and ask "What now can I do for you and my party and my country?" Set a god damned example already instead of acting like a sulking adolescent who didn't get Prom Queen.
mc 32
TOO Liberal park slope
Charles 'WRangel'- the political HACK that all other political hacks look up to...
What a jerk- Thank goodness he's not an Italian/American- I don't think I could stand that in polite company!
Looks like the self-professed career community organizer managed to finally pull it off.
Wikipedia defines CULT OF PERSONALITY as:
"...when a country's leader uses MASS MEDIA to create a heroic public image through unquestioning FLATTERY and PRAISE. Cults of personality are often found in dictatorships but can be found in some DEMOCRACIES as well.
A cult of personality is similar to general hero WORSHIP except that it is created specifically for political leaders. However, the term may be applied by analogy to refer to ADULATION of non-political leaders."
Gary 9
2nd has to go to hoover
Let's get real here. HRC's supports are saying things like "He's lost the whites, he's lost the seniors, etc and he's in a lot of trouble." This is sour grapes. They had better wake up and realize that if they don't unite behind Obama we as a nation are in trouble. People like Rangel and others will loose all of their integrity with their own constituencies if they pressure Obama to take HRC--let's not forget the story of the Frog and the Scorpion.
Park Slope is considered progressive. How anyone who displays something like that can consider him/herself a progressive is beyond me. Maybe it belonged to an odd Republican in Park Slope.
Yeah, Chris (#35), where are they?
Brian,
You should not repeat this "most liberal voting record." John Kerry got this same label from the same group in 2004. It is a bogus rating meant top smear someone yet you perpetuate it. More liberal than Bernie Sanders, Barbara Boxer, Russ Feingold, etc. (I love those 3 - I am just saying...)
Rangel is full of it since yesterday he told Andre Mitchell that HRC deserved the VP nod. He was the one applying the pressure that he is now saying is a bad idea! get your story straight, charlie.
To all of Sen. Clinton’s supporters that are going to vote for McCain because of the sexist treatment throughout the campaign; remember when that woman directly addressed McCain at a rally last November referring to Sen. Clinton as the “b” word that rhymes with “witch”? What has he done to rebuke that statement? You all need to examine your true motives for picking McCain over Obama. Repeating the same talking points about how the press treated her and, the guy holding up the “iron my shirt” sign, do not reflect how Obama has personally treated her. And if any of you want to point out the “sweetie” reference to the reporter, I guess, I as a man should claim sexist treatment whenever a woman I don’t know refers to me as ‘sweetie, honey, sugar, dear, pumkin…etc.”
jfk-lbj
reagan-bush
clition-gore
all rough primaries, all united after, all won.
FYI: On an historical note:
America has NEVER elected a Liberal to the Presidency of The Unted States of America!!
Did I just hear Charlie Rangel suggest Obama break his word in order to win? How many times have we watched other politicians do whatever it takes to win. Doesn't sound like change to me.
I love it. Rangel being Rangel: Principal is OK, until it interferes with the ability to win. Then, prinicpal takes a back seat.
Change? Not really.
zuwena,
Re: "real." His coalition looks a little incomplete. He is going to have a tough climb in the fall. He needs Latinos, women, blue collar workers and old people. Hate to burst your bubble but we need to include all Democrats for this tough climb.
Many of those people do not want to be taken for granted, so the case has to made for them to get on board. Some of them are feeling deserted by the party, whether that is reasonable or not.
For those who say Hilary won the popular vote:
The popular vote calculation is a bit of a boondoggle actually. If you you go to Real Clear Politics you'll see that there are SIX different scenarios - 3 in which Obama has the popular vote, 3 in which Clinton has the popular vote:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html
Charles Rangel NEEDs to be IMPEACHED ASAP!! Where was he in the Sean Bell case? Where is he on the gentrification of Harlem. What a HOUSE NEGRO...literally!!!
As far as the petition for Clinton to be put on the ticket, I think this is unhealthy, and antithetical to the process, which unfortunately, has been the hallmark of Clinton's campaign. She ran as an entitled female candidate, NOT as a competent, experienced, intelligent candidate (which she is). She should have won this primary season, hands down. She didn't, and she pulled the gender card far more than Obama ever pulled the race card (in fact he did not pull the race card until forced to do so).
I was ready to support her, and wavered between both candidates (I originally supported Kucinich), until way after the New York primary. Now, I won't vote for her for dogcatcher. She has been disappointing and lacked the grace and character to even abide by the rules because she was losing. And while she has a good point about her strength in several constituencies, she loses credibility by her tactics. She is divisive and damaging to the Democratic Party, and I would only hope that she be censured accordingly.
I can't stand this rockstar image that obama has. That alone makes me not want to vote for him, (ignorant? probably) I was watching his speech and had to turn it off after hearing the yelling of his name by some girl from the audience.
Seth - the thing MSM and NPR alike seem to forget is that Hillary has delivered a great many votes and blocs that Obama cannot afford to dis. She has been systematically dismissed while being only a hair's breadth away from Obama. I am afraid that Obama's Harvardness will not stand up to mcCain without Hillary's help because teh Dems ahve thrown a good many of us under the bus with their sexist (?) treatment of Hillary. You'd think she was a Republican!!! Wait till McCain & Co. start going after Obama - he has no experience with this kind of onslaught. Once again the Democrats shoot themselves in the foot - and the ones that lose are all Americans.
Brian,
This day should have started with the historic and in many ways revolutionary nature of Obama's campaign. Less time on Clinton and her bad manners. More on the future.
"HOPPING" IS RIGHT BRIAN.
HOPPING MAD. IT'S LIKE 100 YOSEMITE SAMS UP IN HERE.
Let's try that link again. i think it's really important to see this because it points to underlying issues that go beyond these two politicians.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html
It's not as if Clinton has the right, at this point, to sit back and say, well, I'm just going to do whatever my supporters want me to do.
Of course, many of Clinton's supporters want her not to concede to or to endorse Obama. Of course, many other of her supporters think that she has the right of first refusal to the VP slot.
Clinton knows this. She knows that the only way her supporters will rally around Obama is if she gives them permission to do that.
Every second that she refuses to give them that permission -- refuses to concede, refuses to endorse, refuses to tell her supporters that they must rally around Obama as the Democratic standard-bearer for November -- is a second that she is actively denying Obama his right and his ability to unify the party.
#58 - Good point.
Maya #36
You said it perfectly
Leonardo: There's nothing wrong with people being excited about a candidate they believe in.
Yeah David - let McCain win - it won't matter. Sure, thousands more soldiers and hundreds of thousands more Iraqis (and maybe a few Iranians!) will die; sure more atavistic right wing judges will grace the federal bench, and sure what's left of your civil rights will disappear, but what do you care ....
I believe that I speak for many African Americans and others when I say that I'm going to stay home on election day if Hillary is on the ticket. It's time for Obama to show some real backbone!
"A man can't ride your back unless it's bent."
Martin Luther King
#55
Hear hear!!!! I agree wholeheartedly.
I APOLOGIZE FOR THE REPEATED POST
The last bit for that truncated link is "democratic_vote_count.html"
or just go to realclearpolitics.com and go to the "Popular Vote" link on the right
Yeah, if Hillary had clinched the nomination I sincerely doubt Obama supporters would be circulating a petition pressuring her to make him the VP because he's somehow entitled to it and I sincerely doubt she would entertain the idea that she owed him ANYTHING.
Thank God for Melissa Harris-Lacewell and real math and not Brian's re-hash of Hillary's fuzzy math.
I remember during the Get Out The Vote work I did on NYC primary day, some months ago, when I stood by the B'way and 110th St. subway station.
Obama supporters smilled hopefully and occasionally cheered.
Hillary supporters often shook their head ruefully at me, in a mix of dismissiveness, scorn and general negativity.
In a way, this sort of air permeated the Hilary campaign and its early treatment of Sen. Obama and his candidacy.
As someone who would have voted for either Obama or Clinton in the general election (I voted for Obama in the primary) I don't think it's advantageous for Obama to choose Clinton as VP. It seems to me that he needs someone with more experience and less liberal to win. Obama / Clinton seems like a dream ticket for the Republicans.
How about Richardson for VP and promising Hillary AG cabinet post. Richardson could campaign in fluent Spanish and Hillary would be a fighter as AG. No?
Obama CANNOT choose HRC as VP.
It would be like putting on concrete boots before swimming.
Senator Clinton Supporters, please explain the following:
If Senator Obama is inexperienced, which candidate has spent more time in elected office?
If Senator Obama cannot win Senator Clinton’s big historically democratic primary victory states, will these states go red in the fall?
How is it possible for the winning candidate to get fewer votes; is this only possible if you exclude people who DID vote in a caucus or as a super-delegate?
Also, with racism being a factor in American elections (which Senator Clinton was more than willing, albeit in thinly veiled language, point out to us) how do you suppose a “liberal, inexperienced, Black man” got the nomination? Would it be through not following the rules (like those agreed upon in dealing with Michigan and Florida befor the votes.)
What sexist things did Senator Obama say about or do against Senator Clinton?
Why would senator Clinton want to be on the ticket of this “naïve and inexperienced” minority full of nothing but hyperbole and platitudes?
I could go on, but really... reread and think about what you’ve been saying.
Herb, shut up and vote. Vote Dem, vote Rep, vote otherwise, but do your damn civic duty and exercise that right that your people fought so hard for. You're not doing anyone any favors by staying home on Election Day.
No Hillary, No Vote! She should not be his VP, it is an insult. I will not vote for a ticket with him on the top. I did not drink the Obama Kool-Aid. She should wait 4 years and run in 2012 (because Obama will lose in November).
John Edwards needs to be attorney general. That's much more important than who the vice president will be.
voter
which candidate has spent more time in elected office? MCCain, what's your point
Leave it to Mrs. Clinton to step on Mr. Obama's big moment. She lost and now wants to give the impression that she may graciously deign to accept the VP spot. The more I listen to this woman the greater my sympathy for her husband.
Heilene #55
You nailed it on why the petition is wrong.
Why do HRC supporters think that she has a right to be on the ticket? I'm pretty sure that if the tables were turned and Clinton had won the nomination, Obama wouldn't carry the same sense of entitlement - the sense that he would have a right to be on the ticket as VP. It's disgusting.
Personally I think if Obama is really going to campaign on "change" he shouldn't have Clinton as a running mate. Hillary and Bill have too much history in Washington, alot of which is negative.
just in those two snippets of obama and mccain, you can hear how one is more nimble, hopeful and inclusive and the other is tired, divisive and programmed. already, mccain has to bend toward obama's themes in an effort to belittle them.
mccain already sounds exhausted.
and, of course, mccain trotted out the liberal tag. obama can swat that away by pushing for universal health care.
what didn't mccain like about the sixties? the idealism? the youth movement? Head Start? the voting rights act?
even the elderly can be reached by obama if he asks them what they want their legacy to be and what kind of world they want for their children and grandchildren.
I hate it that there is a petition going around. Bad idea, folks. Dems shooting themselves in the foot.
I disagree with the analyst on the air who seems to think that the half that voted for HRC will just come over regardless.
It is outrageous for Marie Cocco to say the Obama campaign treated her disrespectfully. Sure, many parties have mistreated her, but not the candidate.
Diana - SHUT UP AND VOTE. This is the presidency, not the prom. But if you need high school analogies: even if you believe your team is going to lose the big game, go to the gym anyway and show your support. We need a united party here, why can't people start looking at the bigger picture!?
Does AMerica really want Bill Clinton on TV every single day as first husband to vice president Hillary?
And if Bil has another dalliance / sex affair during the Obama presidency..... it would drag down the entire presidency into the media sewer for years... like happened with president Bill CLinton.
The risk of Bill ob board is too high....
Can someone tell me how the Obama campaign vilified Clinton?
Why do people not accept that if she ran a smarter campaign she would have won this a while ago? The seeds of her undoing were her own decisions.
I find it interesting that people are complaining that Hilary was treated unfairly by the media and the Obama campaign throughout the primaries. It's called politics, people!
Uhhhh...
About that "media bias against Hillary" thing...
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/854/candidate-character
Great point Heilene #55, especially this line which is the key point for me: "She ran as an entitled female candidate, NOT as a competent, experienced, intelligent candidate (which she is)."
"wounds" need time to heal, and usually they do. It's been one day, let's not go overboard.
I feel compelled to send this comment--for what it is worth. With the Democratic Primaries now concluding I can actually say that I do wish Senator Clinton well. However any talk of an Obama Clinton ticket will surely lose my support, (and I suspect that I may not be the only one); simply because the two of them, Clinton and Obama together, does not equal change. Senator Obama needs to be free to choose a Vice President--and that would be whoever would best support his ideas and beliefs. For him to choose Senator Clinton as a running mate would seem to contradict his messsage no matter what the rationale could be. It would epitomize a kind of political expedience at the very least that speaks of business as usual--politically speaking. And that counteracts the essence of his message of change. Not to mention that his principles have never seemed to be about winning at any cost. Thus to now go against his principles and choose someone who is all about winning at any cost seems counter intuitive. I for one, as much as I admire and support Senator Obama, cannot support him if she is his vice presidential running mate.
It won't matter WHO IS-
or WHO IS NOT running with O-Ba-Ma. . .
America is NOT going to elect Michelle to be the angly First Lady of America!
And THAT (my friends) is THAT!!
The media will favor Obama till November. Because of you know there bias, excluding fox news of course. This favoritism will upset a lot of the clinton supporters because they will be reminded of what they went through in the primary. I am not sure how this will affect them in November, but like somebody else said. Dems are shooting themselves in the foot.
As the BBC stated this morning, the American political process is like that of a third world country's political process. I don't care about any of this nonsense, it's really very childish, silly, but dangerous. USA has never grown up, we are the spoiled children of the world and that culminated in our most recent spoiled child administration head.
I fully respect Hillary's intelligence and capabilities, but Have we no memories?! At a time for her to show true leadership, when it counted most, and for which we are paying dearly, she was silent. There was no caring for the American people, no leadership from our Rep. No one standing up to Bush Cheney except for the Presidential race. Thousand of us remember those days before Iraq, and for the first few years after, she and her office remained silent and would not come out to speak with us, to support us, to listen to us. Politically safe for the moment, that's not the leadership she and her followers claim she has. The form letter received way back when as to why we needed to go to "war" and why she voted for it never answered or served us. She still tries to maintain this excuse. I believe in redemption, but there's been an obliteration of the past here. This is a most critical point that presently effects us deeply each hour. This is not kind on non leadership we here in NYC and the country need or need in a VP.
I agree, Kysha, about the bigger picture: The next president is going to appoint Supreme Court Judges who are APPOINTED FOR LIFE. These are the people making decision that can affect the civil rights of our children and grandchildren, PLEASE let's keep that in mind!
hjs: I'll give you Hoover at third worst, and then Carter at fourth and LBJ at fifth and Tricky Dick at sixth.
For those on the board following this, in order of worst presidents:
1. Baby Bush (son of Papa Bush)
2. Clinton
3. Hoover
4. Carter
5. LBJ
6. Nixon
7. JFK (yes indeed; the Cuban Missle Crisis was almost the end of the world, as Dana Perino knows)
8. Warren Harding
9. Andrew Johnson (disastrous Reconstruction policies)
10. Thomas Jefferson (yes, he's a founding father, but if you read your history, he was a disastrous president and brought the fledgling economy to its knees.)
The comment from the caller who talked about racially offensive comments from the Clintons, etc typifies the problem I as a clinton supporter have with the Obama people---the Clintons have a long historical record to fall back on that proves they are not racist, and to call them racist is ugly and a tactic. I agree with the caller who called attention to the rudeness of the remarks about Hilary,etc. Also, I think it is time for African American voters to stop thinking of themselves as somehow more entitled to be judgemental, and to privilege their hurt and wounds, and their importance as a group over those of others. There is a historical problem with racism, but there is also a huge historical problem with gender inequality.
There is also a problem when the racism of African Americans, typified by Mr. Obama's former mentor and pastor, is considered a kind of cultural perogative.
Thanks
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