The Brian Lehrer Show

Enough already!!! Hillary needs to go gentle into that good night right now!! In the words of Franz Kafka and Marvin Gaye, Hillary has got to “Give It Up”. In the old days of Monday Night Football, when one team had mounted an insurmountable lead, Don Meredith would start singing “Turn Out the Lights. The Party’s Over”. I want someone to deliver that message to Hillary. The undecided superdelegates need to muster the intestinal fortitude to pull the plug on Hillary’s kamikaze campaign. A delegation consisting of Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, Al Gore, John Edwards, Joe Biden, James Clyburn, Rahm Emanuel, Barbara Boxer, Carl Levin, Jimmy Carter, and Mario Cuomo needs to give Hillary an ultimatum. Hillary should be told that she has until this coming Friday at 12 noon to announce her withdrawal from this race. If she refuses to comply, this delegation should hold a press conference at 12 noon on Friday and announce that each one of them is endorsing Barack Obama for President.

Hillary has run a vile, venomous campaign based on race-baiting and fear-mongering. This should immediately disqualify her from being considered for the vice presidential slot on the ticket. It should also disqualify her from being considered for the post of Senate Majority leader.

Yes, it's over.

Silent 'superdelegates' do the party harm

Who are they?

and dean should be forced to resign! his bad leadership on FL and Michigan is the cause of this stalemate

Easy answer:

Yes, it's over. It's actually been over since March, but whatever.

it's time for clinton to drop out

Yes, please! Please give it up. If she doesn't, I think it's clear that she's truly only out for herself, and willing to torpedo any other Democrat winning in November.

Finally, the beginning of the end has arrived. She should find a way to gracefully exit while attempting to re-unite the party. Then, just maybe, I can regain a tiny amount of the respect I once had for her.

The gig is up for Mrs. Clinton...but she isn't admitting it... It's time to try to save some face and step down.

Hillary in '16!

Its time to drop out Hillary.

Mrs. Clinton should leave the race now.

I voted for Hillary, but if the only way she can win is by adding Florida and Michigan, then she needs to step down. If she somehow uses those results, and then gets enough superdelegates to win, it will just look like a Republican style political coup, and Hillary will be guilty of a lot of what's been said about her for the past fourteen years.

As a registered Republican, I believe Clinton should stay in the race as long as possible.

She should have dropped out a long time ago. Her ego-driven desperation has been very hurtful to the Democratic Party.

Save your money Hill and drop out.

I think the longer the Dems control their own narrative, the less damage the right-wing attack machine will be able to inflict with swift-boat style attacks in the General Election. That being said, I think Hillary Clinton should stay in if she wants to even though I do not think she can win, but only if she is willing to run a campaign that is uplifting to BOTH candidates. If not then she should drop out.

If she had the interest of America and ofthe party and of the Democratic process at heart- she would concede- HOWEVER, her continuing just shows that she has her own self-interest at heart. She is just a 'politician'.

Jesse Califano

I was a Hillary supporter from the beginning of the race, but I've completely lost my patience with her and her tactics, and I'm impressed with how Obama was able to handle all the political mud being thrown at him. Hillary should think about this country and do what's best for the Democratic party because the race is close but she's not in the lead so let it go and step down. We have to focus on making sure that knucklehead McCain doesn't snake his way into office the way Bush did.

I voted for Clinton, and gave her money. She was not my first choice, but thought she was better than Obama. However, it is big-picture time. She needed a sweep last night. It is time for Hillary to drop out.

Also, Gov. Dean / future DNC leaders - PLEASE have some winner take all states in the future.

'superdelegates' have to ask themselves can ombama win the swing states??

Hillary loaned herself millions of dollars, this implies she intends to be paid back? How does she intend to get this money back?

I wish it weren't true... I have been a supporter of Hillary since the beginning. The super delegates may well prevail. However, if Obama wins the nomination, we may end up with McCain and that feels intolerable at this point!

i still think we, as a country more than a party, need BOTH of them.

I was originally for Richardson and Edwards, and would like to see Obama and Clinton run together as P and VP [to provide more political cover for both of them].

They both represent, and both ends of the political spectrum need validation after 8 years of Bush authoritarianism and political partisanship.

She doesn't need to drop out immediately, but a gracious exit would be key. The negativity needs to be toned down and there needs to be a central theme of unity for the democratic party moving forward.

Obama's camp is already talking about reaching an agreement re: having Florida and Michigan count because he will win either way. This is the perfect way for Hillary to save face and step down in a positive manner.

What's with these callers saying she should keep going? Can you say DENIAL?!

She needs to tell the superdelegates: "HELLO!? Wake up - Supers. The black guy does not have a chance against the modern Republican spin machine and the pathetic mass media." The only problem with this line is that it will not go over too well with the African Americans (and many whites and persons of other races as well) you need to win in November

Your white-collar audience does not realize how much breadbasket republicans despise the Clintons. Clintons motiviated those who voter to bring Bush JR. to power in the first place...

They never say why Obama's not electable. Why?

No She Can't! It's time for Mrs. Clinton to bow out.

What of the Rush Limbaugh promotion of Republicans to skew the vote in Indiana?

And how do you feel the impact of the Indiana law concerning government issued identification during last night's contest in Indiana?

Was it an issue at all?

Should Clinton Let Go?

YES

Will Clinton Let Go?

NO

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is a human being. She is not a god. She is subject to the same temptations of egoic power trips as every other human being....and in this case she has totally yielded to that temptation.

I bet that NO Clinton supporter calls in to say she should give it up.

If her supporters are so identified with her ego trip that THEY can't give it up...how can we expect her to give it up.

Hillary will drag this out to the bitter end. She can't help herself.

Obama is an imperfect vehicle. He humblyt acknowledges that; and that's why he's going to win the nomination and the general.

Hillary can't win this nomination.

Maybe a third of her supporters will sit out the general or vote for McCain in the fall...and that's a tragedy; but Oabama will still win in November.

Clinton has become Karl Rove. Most people are sick of it.

The politics of petty personal destruction is in its death throws.

Hmm... I think she should wind things down, but not "give up." She could start reshaping her message a bit and spend more time campaigning for THE DEMOCRATS. It would allow her to pay down her campaign debt. She'll still win WV and probably KY. But Oregon might be a good--and tasteful for everyone--oportunity to toss in the towell.

-Obama Supporter

Should Hillary through in the towel yet? Nope, not yet. There are a few more weeks and Democrats in every state should have their say. This is making the party stronger in a very deep way for who ever the candidate is. We are in a time where this all seems obvious but it is never totally a done deal. History shows that who goes into the convention one way can come out another. Then of course we have the general election. We haven't seen nothing yet. The GOP machine will be ruthless and looking back we Democrats will realize this nomination process has been relatively upbeat and truly democratic. Which is rare and probably the deeper reason it has been going on this long.

Thanks,

Richard

It's time for the Clinton to step aside. The animosity growing amoung each candidate's suppporters toward the candidate is begining to seriously threaten the viability of the eventual nominee in the general election. There can be little doubt that most of this bad-feeling -on both sides- has been generated by Clinton's increasingly negative and divisive campaign. Her camp buys the mud she slings on Obama, and his resents the unfounded attacks. For the good of the party she must go.

This is what gets me mad, I won't vote republican, either way, but Clinton seems to have half of the democrat vote, give or take. Thats close. If she is induced to drop out on the basis of political calculations and media "experts" rather than the peoples votes, than I may not vote at all in November.

J REilly

Also,

-Hillary supporters will vote for Obama in the general election. They aren't stupid.

- This is GREAT for the party. The "spin apart" argument is simple a function of the media.... It focuses the attention on the Democratic party and away from that walking corpse the is McCain.

People need to get real. Either Hillary or Obama could beat "geritol" McCain and the see-no-reality Republicans. And either of them would be better than McCain.

I'm very sorry to see Hillary's light dimming. I think she should go through the motions of running in the remaining primaries, tone down the critisizing of Obama, and highlight her enormous strengths (it's the policies, stupid!). But behind the scenes she needs to be consulting many Dem leaders as well as Obama's camp as to just how she should graciously bow out -- and perhaps get the VP spot. All should be wrapped up early June -- NOT the convention in ASugust. Let's get it togther, Dems!

Why is it over?... I'm not voting for either but why is competition a bad thing?...The rhetoric gets silly but its up to us (MSM ain't doing it) to ask questions we need answers to...The pundits are full of it when they come up with the numbers they pick out of the ether...

if you want to swift-boat mccain compare his imprisonment to the imprisonment and release after many years of innocent men on death row - see new york times this morning for an example. page 1 - levon james, 14 years in jail, released friday.

re: clinton peformance in the later elections, there is a shift in WHO is voting in the primairy since republican race is out of the picture. i know many republicans who voted for clinton (OHIO) in attempt to keep Obama out.

yes. this skews the numbers some

no. i dont think obama can win the general election.

I'm a Clinton supporter but I'm afraid that the time has come for her to bow out. If she stays did come out on top due to super delegates, she would be dogged forever as the candidate who won through pure politics and not the will of the people. That's exactly what's *not* needed in the upcoming election.

To all the To all the "life long democrats"; bensonhurst, brighton beach, rockawways ;) who are going to vote for Mccain prepare to be embarrassed by the level of articulation of the issues the Obama campaign is about to pose...

Shame on you life long democrats, Shame on you!

Race, racism, bigotry and the vilification that comes with it will affect a black man? In the United States of America?

I'm shocked! Shocked!

This is a delegate race. Obama's has won. He will also win popular vote even counting Michigan and Florida. Superdelegates will come out for Obama now. If they were for Clinton they would have come out long ago. Even if Obama loses in November (which is highly unlikely given McCain's many many faults and the state of the Nation) he has earned the right to lose.

It is over.

She needs to drop out. Even she knows it. Proof of this is her attempt to include Florida and Michigan. All candidates agreed that those states would not count at the start of the race. Obama was not even on the ballot in Michigan! And now she is pressing to get those results included.

She is trying to change the rules now that she is in trouble. This is why her biggest problem is Trust. Voters don't trust her!

Hill and Bill...it is done. Drop out!

It's time for Obama to drop out. Obama will regain his messiah credentials by making the ultimate sacrifice for the good of the party. If he’s really serious about representing a new kind of politics, now is the time for him to prove it in the only meaningful way left. McCain is more beatable in 2012.

Richard Bach... you said it right... Let this ride... It is not bitter at all. This race has been collegial and has resulted in millions of newly registered voters.

ALL THE NOVEON PEOPLE HAVE AS USUAL FILLED THE COMMENTS PAGE WUTH GETTING RID OF CLINTON

FLORIDA & MICHIGAN VOTES MUST BE COUNTED

TO GET TRUE PRIMARY COUNT.

THIS IS THE SHOW TO TALK ABOUT CLINTON'S REAL DELEGATE COUNT

WHY DO YOU, ANDREA & OTHER MEDIA CONTINUOUSLY SO WILLINGLY OMIT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE

We Donate money to a political campaigns.

Why dos Hillary Lend 6 million to her campaign?

Does she intend to recoup 6 million from her campaign, and isn’t that a unethical use of campaign donations?

This older white lady who insists she is not a racist... but will never vote for Obama because he is a snake oil salesman selling... hope? She's a racist.

Obama will beat McCain. We need to stop being afraid and go for it. This is the right time to shatter stereotypes. Democrats have huge numbers of newly registered voters and they will come out and vote for the Democratic nominee. We need to end the war and start fixing the enormous problems we face as a country. McCain has everything against him at this point.

What of the Limbaugh effect? I heard one poll say that 1 in 10 voters in Indiana identified themselves as Republican. I doubt that you could count 10% of Clinton's vote as Republicans monkeying with the process. But even a small percentage might have given it to Clinton. Any thoughts?

Hillary's eyes do not match the words coming out of her mouth. Even her tone of voice was joyless in her speech last night. Bill's expression similarly was somewhat sad. I think she's struggling to sound triumphant but she feels defeated.

We Donate money to a political campaigns.

Why dos Hillary Lend 6 million to her campaign?

Does she intend to recoup 6 million from her campaign, and isn’t that a unethical use of campaign donations?

-Daniel

aprilk,

if white dems won't vote for obama do u think general white voter will?

which "swing states" will he win in NOV?

how will he get to 270?

I doubt that either Clinton or Obama are electable. But they are the only choices at this point. While Obama will have difficulty with the "rural white" vote and the other "Reagan Democrats", most of them wouldn't vote for Clinton, either. Clinton's base are life long Democrats who will vote for Obama. Obama's base of African Americans and first time voters will probably not vote for Clinton (not only older, rust belt whites are capable of bitterness that works against their self-interest and greater good.) If McCain were to pick Colin Powell as VP against Clinton, many African American could go Republican.

brian,

i love your show, but here is the problem i have w/ the 'electability' argument being made...

if we believe super delegates should vote overwhelmingly for Hillary because she can get the "white", "working class", "blue collar" voters who will never vote for Obama, (to be honest often because of subtle racial reasons), then are we accepting the arguments made by businesses around segregation that refused to hire 'colored' workers for certain positions because of their client's were not comfortable with it?

if that is the argument the democratic party accepts then as a person of principle i will refuse to vote for the democratic candidate, and refuse to give money to the democratic party.

The nice liberal lady who's on now who's had "black boyfriends", Norma, is a typical case of a Clinton kool aid drinker.

Of course Obama isn't the perfect saint some of his supporters cast him as. Obama is not Dennis Kucinich or Ralph Nader! And they aren't saints either!

I feel sorry for Norma. Norma has identified 100% with Clinton's ego trip.

Obama was my THIRD choice. If He drops dead tomorrow I would bust my butt to make sure Clinton won in November. Not because she is perfect; but because she is good...compared to John McCain!!!

The beauty of the Obama candidacy is that, so far, he has simply made the mud the issue. He has refrained from fighting merde with more merde.

I predict Obama will win in November by 12 points, and that we will have 25 million newly registered Democratic voters helping him win.

We will take the Senate with 60 plus majority so no more Republican filibusters.

We are on the verge of a national transformation folks; let's not blow it because we over react to one woman's petty personal pride.

About defections, do you really think that many Obama voters (if he were not the nominee) would defect to McCain - the polar opposite in style and substance - or is it more an expression of confidence in their candidate and cockiness when being polled?

I watched Donna Brazil on CNN furious with a pro-Clinton talking head for continuing divisive campaign analysis. I believe that there has been a decision --not yet public--that Clinton will not win, and that Obama will be the nominee.

At first I thought that she should stop, but now I am am thinking that if she continues to campaign, she can turn over "Her" supporters to him and encourage and reassure nervous whites.

hjs,

I won't do any particular electoral math but Republicans are losing special election Congressional seats that they have held virtually for ever. The Republican brand is poison. McCain's time has passed. A day is a lifetime in politics and if thinks don't look great now for Obama, be patient. This is a year you do not want to be a Republican.

I completely disagree with #34 that Hillary should get most of the blame (if there is blame to be had) for the hard feelings between both camps. Obama's the one who unfairly blamed the Clintons for the strife in the '90s when it was really the Republicans who made up crises. Obama's the one who ran ads in Pennsylvania falsely claiming that Hillary would make people pay through the nose for health insurance (this is when Obama doesn't have the guts to come up with a truly universal health care plan). Obama's the one who let his supporters back in March demand Hillary drop out for the sake of unity (though I thought I was voting Democratic because it was the Republicans who played the disgusting unity card argument over the Iraq War).

You want to say that there's been false charges leveled by both candidates? That'd be fine. But don't try telling me that Obama is some sort of angel here.

I agree with comment #33 that the campaign has been relatively upbeat. If you happen think that all negativity is bad, I'm sorry, but that's just naive. Democrats, for example, need to learn to start "going negative" on Republicans.

The animosity comes from the fact that there are two big wings of the Democratic Party who emphasize different issues and take different attitudes toward politics. It's not "mostly" because of Hillary.

Leave gracefully, do some good between now and 2012 and see what happens. Pull an Al Gore.

Amen Kevin. (#58)

'superdelegates' should vote for whomever can win in the fall

NO! I object to those pushing to get Clinton out of the race. As an American, she has the right to pursue the office of the presidency and no one has the right to push her out except the voters and/or the super delegates. So Obama & McCain lovers quit complaining that she should quit.

Truman proved that it's not over 'till it's over!

Furthermore, I believe she should be selected as the BEST candidate for the Democratic Party for BEST chance not only of winning the national election in November, but as the best qualified for president of our United States of America.

SNAKE-OIL SALESMAN! What a good way to describe Obama. That man is so smug, so full of BS, and such a dishonest manipulator of his own biography, there's no way on earth that this democrat would ever voite for him.

I also think it is absolutely ridiculous that one of your guests cited that interchange as an admission of trouble by H's campaign.

You guys must be really desparate to make your arguments if you're reaching for that snippet.

In a country already facing a fiscal challenge I believe Hilary should pull out and stop wasting money that should be focussed on getting a democratic win for 2008. If the country is focusing on the divide for the democratic party how can we possibly focus on a win for the Presidential election? If this battle continues we are handing the election to the republicans!

I think people need to get a grip here. If you look at the popular vote now, Obama has wiped out the gains that Clinton made in PA. That is huge, especially after the beating he took in the last 2 weeks. I think we need to continue the process, the super-d's need to hold off, and, if the worm has truly turned, it won't matter what the popular vote is in FL and MI because he will have overtaken it. This would give him a huge mandate. I know that technically the nominee is chosen by delegates, but we need to have the perception and the belief that most Democrats truly want whoever is nominated.

It seems insane to me that an Obama supporter or a Clinton supporter would either vote for McCain or not vote if their respective candidate does not receive the nomination. I have yet to hear anything but superficial reasons for this decision. Clinton and Obama are so similar on the issues that it seems totally ridiculous to me. I guess the irrational, baseless hatred that many people have for Clinton goes both ways.

they need to get together and move on!

We need to go through the rest of the primaries. We need to get a deal done in FL and MI. We need superdelegates to take a very hard look at the end of it all. If it looks like there is a clear popular winner, then that person should be the nominee. I only hope that it is clear by then. If one side or the other feels robbed it spells doom in Nov. Supporters on both sides need to stop calling each other names. We need each other. Think about Alito and Roberts. Think about tax cuts as the only solution to our problems. That is what McCain would bring us.

What Chris (#70) said!!! It has me completely dumbfounded that anyone would vote for McCain or not vote at all if their candidate doesn't get the nomination. Aren't we trying to get the Republicans out of office?

Some posters still say that they will vote McCain if their candidate does not win.

PLEASE think of McCain on the war, taxes, Supreme Court nominees, reprductive freedom, civil liberties,etc. Remember, 1 more conservative on the court is a disaster. PLEASE step back and think clearly.

We must get our country back from the brink.

chris 70 & mc 72

agreed! we should all pledge to support the dem nominee in nov

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May07.html

Paula Beckenstein

You nailed it. I had the same sense myself watching her speak. Even the cheering sounded somewhat manufactured/forced....this is the essence of tragedy unfolding.

Let us not be distracted by it or sucked into it.

>>>"Hillary's eyes do not match the words coming out of her mouth. Even her tone of voice was joyless in her speech last night. Bill's expression similarly was somewhat sad. I think she's struggling to sound triumphant but she feels defeated."<<<

I do think a real mandate is what we deserve to determine a candidate.

But Al Gore says it's not about who wins the election but who has power inside DC afterward - does Bill Moyers say this, too? Anyway Al is noticing cracks in teh foundation of our democracy (corporate takeover is I think what he means. Ike warned us about that in 1961 the night before JFK was sworn in. To enable us to have input into the policies now, we need to look at all other voting places in our lives - the supermarket is a big one, for example)

hjs,

i think white dems will vote for Obama. even my mom likes him and she voted for Bush and also supports Hillary. my brother voted for Bush, won't vote for McCain, prefers Obama now. He could win Ohio, maybe Pennsylvania and Michigan are possible (I'm from MI) and others. I think he survived the mudslinging pretty well. He also has a lot more going for him than Kerry did.

NO! NO! Hillary should not drop out. I resent Obama more every day. He says he can unify the country,but he's divided the party.

He's an opportunist. Washington will eat him alve and he CANNOT win.

I nor my husband will vote for him. I will vote for my local canidates and leave the presidential slot blank if he is the nominee.

Donna Brazile for DNC chairwoman.

Ellie,

How has Obama divided the party? And Hillary isn't an opportunist? All politicians are. Not voting is as good as voting for McCain.

I am distressed by the pervasive split that seems to have re-invaded the party. That split held last night. I think people on both sides feel marginalized by the other side. I agree with something that I heard Rahm Emmanuel say earlier - the way the loser loses is critical. I also think the way the winner wins is critical. It needs to not be by machination. I support HRC because of her policies. Her star has dimmed somewhat for me lately because of policies, not rhetoric. That said, I'm not sold on Obama. But if most Democrats want Obama, I'm fine with that. We need to beat McCain and we need all the Democrats to vote to do that.

RePub101 I disagree with you but I finally see why you guys don't like the Clintons.

And all the so-called democrats who say I won't vote or will vote for McCain, I say shame on you. Do you really want repuicans in power for another 4 years.

If Clinton gets the nomination--I don't see how--but if she did, I would vote for her because she can't be as bad as McCain.

If a so-called democrat decides not to vote, or worse votes for McCain, I guess America deserves what it gets. America elected GW Bush (kind of) and we are getting what we deserve. 85% of this population is dumb, deaf, and/or blind, and unfortunately the democratic party attracts a disproportionate share of that 85%. I'm not surprised to hear such idiocy. Republicans are smarter.

mc,

I agree with you on the Rahm Emanuel quote, it's very important to bring in the Clinton voters, and to do that we need to allow them to bow out gracefully.

I was suprised by how small a margin Clinton won Indiana last night, even after 1) the media onslaught about Wright 2) ceaseless negative attacks (including months of "not to my knowledge"-type remarks as to whether he's a Muslim, 3) the "bitter" episode, which to me didn't reflect well on Obama.

Given that small margin, to what degree was her support in that primary due to the Rush Limbaugh effect? (which was discussed on the NPR special coverage of last night's results?) And why are people so reluctant to discuss this?

mc,

you wrote:

"I support HRC because of her policies. Her star has dimmed somewhat for me lately because of policies, not rhetoric."

I hear you. But rhetoric, since the classical era, has always mattered, and for good reason.

As a neurologist once said, "it's not mind OR body, it's mind AND body." Among other things, leadership involves sound policy, sound long-term strategy, and an ability to inspire people to get behind those sound policies and strategies. And rhetoric plays a part in motivating people. If it's consistently negative and fear-based, a la Hillary Clinton, there's a good chance you'll see it reflected in the polls.

Having said that, I thought many parts of her victory speech last night were thoughtful and well-delivered. Let's hope she can continue without mudslinging, otherwise, I think the superdelegates have good cause to shut her operation down.

eva,

Welcome aboard. I give Obama credit for weathering a couple of brutal weeks. I don't give much credence to Rush. Republican voters didn't listen to him - they nominated McCain. I don't think that many people care what he thinks any more.

I only recall one incident of "not to my knowledge." I saw that clip. People make more of it than there is.

eva,

Rhetoric does not matter to me because I hear it on both sides and so it gets canceled out. Deeds matter far more to me. Deeds, and what the candidates' plans are. Which is why her star has dimmed for me. Stupid ideas like suspending the gas tax, useless pandering about trade, China, etc. Only problem: He does it too. So they are starting to cancel each other out. I will support the nominee.

eva,

That reminds me: I went on record stating that I would sopport the nominee either way. I asked you if you wuold do the same and you came back with some weird notion about McCain and Bloomberg. (I can't figure out why you have such a crush on Bloomberg). So I ask again: in the unlikely event of a Clinton nomination, will you support the Democrat? Or cast your lot with more judges like Alito, and Roberts, more tax cuts in the face of a $9 trillion debt etc., etc.?

mc,

on rhetoric, maybe there's a confusion of terms. In its Isocratic (not Socratic) tradition, it marries language to nobler purpose. In its demagogic tradition, e.g. calling anyone who disagrees with you an "elitist" it can only achieve short-term goals, if that.

I think the distinction has been made fairly that Obama's rhetoric tries to elevate character (one of the classical ideals of rhetoric) whereas Clinton has gone for a more gutter approach. It might not matter to you (it doesn't have to!), but I think it played a big part in yesterday's results.

You may only recall once incident of "not to my knowledge" (I believe there were at least two), but I seriously question whether you can find one single incident where Obama took such a low road against Hillary.

eva,

I am using the word as is defined in MW dictionary:the art of oratory, communication, etc. The word seems to carry the connotation of insincere or dishonest speech. The "to my knowledge" words came at the end of a long answer that she gave wne pressed about her belief that Obama is a Christian. She said she had no reason to believe otherwise.

Back to the oratory I think that Obama has tried to tie the Clinton administration to the Bush administration. Whatever you may think of the Clinton years, and they are checkered, I think that is a low blow. Right on par with allusions to Obama's friends and what they say about his character. I can't begin to keep score, so I ignore all of it.

mc,

you missed the later threads in that discussion with hjs, wherein I said, yes, I would support Hillary in the now VERY UNLIKELY event she is the nominee. Did you hear Brian's show today? 26% vs. 28% in terms of Obama or Clinton supporters being willing to vote for the other guy? The percentages now roughly match on that issue - no doubt as a result of Hillary's recent behavior.

mc,

I guess some feminists would say your use of the word "crush" to describe my admiration for Bloomberg is sexist. (I am more free with modern language, as you know.) Anyway, Bloomberg is the only politician I see in this country who's aggressively planning to prevent global warming and to ensure preventive health care, which I see as two of the biggest issues on the planet. Bloomberg had been involved in preventive health care issues long before his mayoral bid.

sorry, I mean to write "unwilling" in those percentages

mc,

To draw a comparison between Hillary's support for the war and the support for the war in the Bush administration is entirely legitimate. To compare her heated rhetoric ("obliterate") to the Bush administration's hysteria is also fair. Some of the Republican voters interviewed on NPR in the runup to the Indiana primary said they saw McCain as "Bush Lite". From the perspective of a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat, Hillary has too closely aligned herself with Bush foreign policies and sabre-rattling, with old-school pandering like the gas tax holiday. Whether it's comforting or not, you're likely seeing that now in the Indiana (and NC) results. After all the mud, that was a razor-slim major in IN.

eva,

I am concerned about these percentages of people who say they won't support the other candidate. That is one of the reasons I think that it is important that the losing candidate's supporters do not feel robbed. Which means that we all probably have to live with the rest of this process including finding a credible way to deal with FL and MI. The winner has to be a clear winner, not a technical winner. I think the path is clearer for him to rack up enough popular votes to haev a strong mandate.

I am relieved that you will not be a crossover for McCain.

eva,

I was being cute with the word "crush." I admire a lot about Bloomberg as well but he can have an incredibly autocratic style of governing. Once he gets an idea into his head, be it a West Side stadium or congestion pricing, he does not seem to care how he sells it. The congestion pricing was a fiasco, the way he tried to jam it down people's throats. He also tends to be really tone deaf when it comes to parental concerns about the schools. He'll suddenly change a policy and then tell people to stop whining when they are caught in the resulting chaos.

Here is what I like about Bloomberg: a clear commitment to arts funding, aggressive advocacy for the city against gun manufacturers, a commitment to fighting global warming and outlawing smoking in workplaces.

Here is what I hate about Bloomberg: Lying to the public about the real reason congestion pricing needed to pass, ignoring the needs of special ed students when he revamped the schools and then said "well there will be glitches," trying to jam a boon-doggle of a West Side stadium down our throats to try to get the 2012 Olympics, practically locking the city down during the 2004 Rep. Convention, 1800 people arrested and held in a pier on the Hudson for hours and hours. They called it Guantanamo East. There's more. Too much to list here.