The Brian Lehrer Show

Here's a weird one heard (watered down version of) on BBC this morning:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_(ship)

English soldiers kill Jewish would-be emigres to Israel in 1947, then Jewish stores torched...

ummm...there is no god

I guess I'm sick of one religion claiming to be better than another for various reasons. They are all terrible, mysogynistic, exclusionary, and oppressive by way of magical "rules" written by mortal men- not a mystical spirit. No religion is exempt.

Keeping a religion creates segregation, believing in one separates you from others. RELIGION (insert any belief here) is what spawns this violence.

But there are jews and christians

And Jesus was a Jew.

FYI...I went to church for the better part of 25 years...I was an altar boy for 5 years or so and I NEVER heard anyone say that Jesus was killed by the Jews...

Thus "jews for Jesus"

Thus the poem:

Roses are red,

Violets are bluish,

If it weren't for Jesus,

We'd all still be Jewish.

credit to the late Bill Maurer. RIP, friend.

Ha! Touche.

Quite a unbalanced piece. Why did both Golda Meir(sp?) and Albert Einstein both publically praise Pope Pius XII for the work he did saving so many Jews from death? Why did the mayor of the Jewish community in Rome convert to Roman Catholicism following the war, and take his Baptismal name to be Eugenio, the same first name of Pius XII (Eugenio Pacelli)? Why did the NY Times publically praise Pope Pius XII for saving so many Jewish lives? May I suggest having on the author of "The Myth of Hilter's Pope" on the show as a rebuttal to this anti-Catholic segment? What other religion prays for the conversion of those not of their Faith so that they can be one with them in Heaven?

God bless,

Michael

To David! #8

Typical... I'm assuming by "all" you mean the white west. That is not my definition of "all".

I would think that this is an opportunity for individuals who already have fruit and vegetable stands in so many NYC neighborhoods to expand their businesses to the areas that seem to have more drug stores than food stores - even here in Forest Hills, despite there being several supermarkets selling fresh fruit and vegetables, there is a stand on Continental Avenue that does very well during the spring/summer/fall months.

When the pope says that Hitler's antisemitism came from paganism, it means only one thing to Catholics: there is nothing anti-semitic inherent in your religion, so that can't justify your anti-Jewish feelings. Rather than denying historical Christian antisemitism, the pope is refuting it.

#10, don't forget the fervently Catholic Gino Bartali's role in rescuing Jews in WWII. The famed cyclist would claim that the cart he pulled on his bicycle was for training purposes, but it carried Jews to safe monasteries that would manufacture passports for them. He also helped transport the passports to Jews in hiding. We only learned about this until after the great man's death - he was so humble he would never discuss it, not even with his sons. During WWII, fascists suspected and questioned him, and he told them they could do what they wanted, but he had to do what was right.

Moi Bless.

This is so cool It looks like we need a giant Mashup though to get to the bottom of all the fact fiction dis and misinformation floating around out there about all of this. That would be a cool wisdom of crowds innovation that could change our world.

But, I am more or less on board because of the painstaking reading of history I have undertaken over 20 yrs on this topic. It certainly didn't help that Roman Empire was breaking up from within for hundreds of years, starting with Celts on the West (whose Druid religion truly was 'obliterated' by Roman practice) and Judean revolutionaries on the East. Constantine found a way to co-opt a sweet mystical revolution sweeping pagans and even some diaspora Jews alike that seemed to unite and pacify these people. He was certainly mad about Judean independence movements after they had been able to maintain their temple cult practice and their, 'anti-social' in a Roman's view, laws and practices, but in the end they challenged Rome at an inauspicious time.

So, he came up with a reading of the many texts that would isolate and alienate Judeans as long as Roman legacy would live on. Yes, there are many wonderful individual faithful Catholics out there, and maybe even Pope Pius but the system itself is a legacy of Roman Imperial Administration and Cultural control. I speak as a descendant of French Protestants who suffered too at the hands of that social order controlling and nation state building organization starting in the 1500s when some of those pogroms in Rhineland Carroll shows were happening. Carroll could do a better service to the story to speak about oppression in general, and what we finally broke our way out of in the Reformation and the establishment of this Nation with State, and then Church. Novel at the time, but notice the only country in Roman West where Jews have flourished, as well as everybody else until the present moment at least. The real story about spirituality is that the Abrahamic narrative is not serving. On the same fringes that first joined the Jesus movement today, the East, and mindfulness, and unity and contemplation are sweeping.

Michael Quigley #10

It may just be that 'public' statements by 'public' officials are all really suspect. When they are made they are made in a context of diplomacy or power or servitude, and 60 years later, once some 'nefarious' (and noble) history reviser steps in who can show that diplomacy and power dynamic at work at the time opens the door to discredit 'public' statements, opens eyes to 'glorious' history, and pull down a 'house of cards'.

Peace Michael!

By the way Michael not every religion 'prays' for people to join their religion. Some people believe you are born into a religion full stop. And that every people have a place for 'praying' and maintaining piety traditions to benefit all mankind. I think the rebuttal you have in mind would not really be much of a serious enlightened informed discussion. That is what we have come to experience in America unfortunately when things really get tricky. Long gone are the days of the enlightenment and reason. Fortunately, the founders were pretty rabid reasoners when they set all this up for us, despite our own reasoning limitations so far, but the Supreme Court at the moment reflects this muddled thinking!

I think some context is needed here. I would recommend James Carroll's actual book to all Christians, Catholics, in particular. Like Joe Corrao (#2), I too grew up post-Vatican II during a time when antisemitism was fairly muted, so I remained completely unaware of the church's centuries-old role in the nearly continuous persecution of Jews and Muslims until I read the Constantine’s Sward when I was in my late 40's. I was also unaware of Pope John XXIII’s courage in forging a new direction; his successors have unfortunately not been so courageous or honest. I remember that, as I read Carroll’s the book, I was sickened by the history; I wanted there to be more Christian heroes who did the right thing, but I was deeply disappointed.

But don't just take Carroll's or my word for it - there are dozens of other histories that include similar indictments of the Church, including The Anguish of the Jews: Twenty-Three Centuries of Antisemitism, by Edward H. Flannery; Antisemitism in the New Testament, by Lillian C. Freudmann; The Catholic Church and Antisemitism: Poland, 1933-1939, by Ronald E. Modras; Papal Sin, by Garry Wills; Hitler’s Pope, by John Cornwell; Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust, by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen; and In the Shadow of the Vatican by Ornd Smith, to name just a few. Apologists for the Church cannot explain how or why so many different historians and other scholars and writers of various political stripes, some of whom remain practicing Catholics, all reached the same sad conclusion about Christianity’s dark, murderous impulse toward Jews; nor can they account for the virtual absence of any serious scholarly challenges to the shared conclusions of so many critics of the Church. My hope is that more Christians will, first, educate themselves about this history and, secondly, find the courage to come to terms with this past and turn to acts of contrition rather than simply circling the wagons in knee-jerk defensiveness.

Apologists for the Church cannot explain how or why so many different historians and other scholars and writers of various political stripes, some of whom remain practicing Catholics, all reached the same sad conclusion about Christianity’s dark, murderous impulse toward Jews; nor can they account for the virtual absence of any serious scholarly challenges to the shared conclusions of so many critics of the Church. My hope is that more Christians will, first, educate themselves about this history and, secondly, find the courage to come to terms with this past and turn to acts of contrition rather than simply circling the wagons in knee-jerk defensiveness.