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Gas Tax Holiday
Tuesday, April 29, 2008
The two Democratic contenders for president differ over the idea of a summer gas tax holiday. Hillary Clinton supports one; Barack Obama doesn't. We talk about this policy difference with
Do you support a summer holiday from the federal gasoline tax? Comment below!
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Comments
No.
People need to feel the pain of their follies. You drive, you lose.
The problem I can see (and this doesn't mean I'm totally opposed to it but I see an issue) is that if the tax is removed, the prices will drop and consumption will increase. If the consumption increases, the prices will go back up, and when the tax comes back into effect, prices are going to shoot up even higher. So it will provide a small benefit through the summer, but it could ultimately lead to higher prices in the fall.
Absolutley not, the Tax is a false savings. Where will the cash strapped governent make up the difference in revenues. I support Hilary, but I agree with Obama on this one.
It was a cheap stunt when Gore released the oil reserves in late 2000, in order to drive down gas prices in time for voters to thank him for a few extra dollars. It's a cheap stunt now.
No, it's crazy. Obama's right. We save $30 & drain $9 billion from the national highway fund? How stupid does Hillary's team think we are? And she's in complete denial if she thinks the Congress will pass a windfall tax on the oil companies. It'll never pass.
With the Iraq war drowning us in red ink, this is no time to lower another tax. Clinton is making a pitch for votes; she is not even thinking about the energy problem, including oil prices.
it's like a drug dealer giving you a discount while you're trying to get the monkey off your back.
JUST SAY NO!
no.
enough of spending your grandchildren's money.
No,
She's pandering - my $0.18 cents worth says it's not worth it.
Absolutely not. Transactional politics that skirt the issues of environment, economics, and responsibility are the problem right now. Buying votes by playing with revenues is irresponsible, not to mention the ethical question of encouraging the burning of fossil fuels. This is a no brainer.
No I don't support the concept of summer tax holiday. I do support higher gas mileage requirements on new cars and trucks, and for people to downsize away from SUV's. Perhaps 4 or 5 dollar per gallon gasoline will motivate more people to discard their behemoths!
To stimulate the economy I propose the US govt. sends us hundreds of billion dollars worth of checks this month and simultaneously cut taxes on gas.
Forever.
No gas-tax holiday. It isn't enough to help those who need the help and only serves to encourage those who can afford road trips. Why encourage more driving? It only puts more money in the pockets of the crooks (the Big Oil-igarchy) who are aggravating the problems. It would be better to give a break at the grocery store.
Prices will come down when demand does, relative to supply. A gas-tax holiday thus makes no sense -- oil companies will simply raise the price accordingly and people will have to pay it. This will increase oil company profits yet more. I'm relieved to learn that Hillary proposes it be combined with a windfall profits tax, but I'd want to see this in place FIRST.
Suspend the federal, state and local taxes on gas, go after the commodities speculators and suspend the tax breaks for the oil companies.
I've been a Clinton supporter all along, but this is bad--she is pandering. Obama is right on this!! A 5% reduction in gas prices isnt going to help anyone, and we shouldnt be encouraging more gas consumption now!! Great idea on windfall profits tax--bad idea on gas tax holiday.
I have heard precious little about conservation from the left, the right, local or federal government. Increase the subsidy to Amtrak this summer, get people out of their cars. How about a car pool web site that enables people to hook up based on zip code and departure time. How about some VISION !
No. Americans are supposed to be the richest nation in the world yet Europeans have been paying much higher taxes for gasoline for decades and decades and haven't been doing half as much as complaining as the people in this country keep doing.
It's time for this country to stop acting like a bunch of 4-year olds. We have to start dealing with the real costs of oil, economically as well as politically. Start conserving, start demanding greater fuel efficiency, stop driving gaz-guzzlers, start demanding home-grown and environmentally safe fuel alternatives.
In fact, the prices may jump faster with this tax removed... because people don't always think 100% rationally when buying products. If the tax is removed, people will immediately run out and gas up because they're being given something that seems good. Take advantage of it while it lasts, right? That surge in consumption at a time when consumption has been dropping, will cause prices to rise rapidly.
There's no policy difference. Clinton's a panderer as always, it looks good in headlines and makes it LOOK as if there's a difference between her and Obama. The revenue will never be made up, which precludes her proposal and makes it theoretical. The windfall profits tax will never happen as it has already died in the legislature.
And sure - let's not repair our crumbling highways and bridges and have another Minnesota bridge collapse.
seems like we should be increasing the gas tax and not encouraging further consumption. how about a tax credit for buying a bike or taking the bus?
No way. What a complete waste and pandering for election purposes. In fact, I would raise the gasoline taxes to more accurately reflect the economic cost of a gallon of fuel so that people will conserve more and look to alternatives. I realize I live in an area where using a vehicle is pretty much optional, but we should not further bankrupt the country over this issue.
ENOUGH!!!
The New York Times artcle on this today also said that getting rid of the tax could cost 300,000 highway construction workers their jobs. How does that help working-class people? I drive sometimes and filling up the tank hurts, but that's what I get for driving.
But won't the farmers who want us to be burning their food as fuel object?
Eliminating the gas tax will simply stimulate demand which will, in turn, raise prices charged by the vendors. Thus, the tax holiday will, in large part, be shifting money from the federal treasury to the oil companies. Higher gas prices help to move people into more gas efficient vehicles. I have been a supporter of Sen. Clinton, but here she is pandering.
Just benefits the gas retailers / producers who will obviously just jack up the price to capture the difference.
Once again the ignorance of taxes and their purpose: to keep the infrastructure maintained which will SAVE money in the long term. This is one tax that actually goes where it is supposed too!
Instead, we want "our" money back in our pockets and are then horrified when bridges collapse and levees break. Or when steam eruptions by Grand Central shut down Lexington Avenue and are outraged that something wasn't done sooner. Read my lips: No taxes = no oversight, no repairs, no new initiatives, no innovation, no long-term solution and no good comes of it for any of us.
If you want to reduce the price of gasoline (and food prices), then you need a stronger dollar! The Feds need to fight inflation! Temporarily reducing the gas tax is ultimately counter-productive. Lower price increases demand, which will mean even higher prices. By the way, where are you going to get the funds for highway infrastructure?
John McCain's suggestion that we suspend the gas tax confirms his statement that economic matters are not his strong suit. Ms. Clinton's support for a similar measure, whether coupled with a windfall-profits tax or not, is classic pandering. Only Obama has demonstrated the courage to tell Americans that nothing is free and that eliminating the tax would provide little if no benefit to Americans' wallets. Of course, I do not believe he is so courageous as to suggest that what the country really needs is an increase in the gas tax.
Why would you want to increase demand when supplies are traditionally low, and demand is traditionally high? Seems to me it would only drive prices higher! And based on a 20 gallon tank (SUV sized) you would save a paltry $3.60 per fill up. That won't even by your kid a happy meal on the way to Grandma's house. What a waste.
McCain and Clinton are blatantly pandering. This proposed gas-tax holiday will have no material effect on consumers. All evidence points to the beneficiaries being the oil companies.
Obama tried the gas-tax holiday in Illinois as a State Senator. Less than 60% of the reduction went to made it to consumers and the state lost hundreds of millions in revenue.
It is irresponsible and creates more problems than it solves.
Federal policy on gasoline taxation has always encouraged private automobile sales and usage. The result is now woefully insufficient public transportation and an untenable dependence on foreign oil, and gross congestion on the roads.
Suspending the tax only encourages more consumption of gasoline. Although politically impossible, the correct course of action is to increase taxation on gasoline and funding of public transportation alternatives.
i'd prefer to see a set of refundable tax credits designed to encourage folks to buy cars with higher gas milage with a special bonus for junking a gas guzzler rather than selling it. the idea is to cut demand and overall costs by using less.
cutting the gas tax may tend to keep demand high.
what is going on with americans? are they really so scared of "commie/pinko" threat, that they will not even discuss having the governmnet regulate the profits of the oil companies????? the oil companies bought all the candidates in the senate, and so it will be impossible to really make a meaningful change. we need to cut profits of oil companies, period and stop this bull about free market. we never had "free market" in the us, the gov regulates tons of stuff. why not oil?
yes, curb driving, improve public transport, but address the root cause, the oil companies.
drive. less.
This is ludicrous. We have a deficit, a "war", and $600 being mailed out to our citizens. How can the govt give us more money. Tighten your belts, drive less and suck it up. What about education, health care and real places where we need funding?
Some of us have to drive to get to work.
I am a Clinton supporter and I have to throw this one to Obama. I think it's a stupid idea. It won't help sqeezed consumers that much and it also will encourge more consumption which is a bad idea. That said, I think that some kind of relief needs to go to truck drivers. Maybe we need that windfall profits tax to help them.
No, I don't support it. This is a sham --- I respect Obama for standing up and telling the truth. This is not a policy difference; this is another example of Clinton pandering and flip-flopping for short term gain with no worry that she would ever have to do anything about it. It's another non-issue that she's trumping up to try to trick those supposedly uneducated blue-collar types into thinking Obama is an elitist. Good for him for insisting on policy based on reality rather than micro-polled spin.
I agree with this caller! We need to DRIVE. LESS.
My husband and I are trying to walk the walk by not using the mini-van unless necessary. We drive only the hybrid and we combine errands or reschedule them and make a concerted effort to use less gas. It's hard. It sucks. But we can no longer afford $72 for a fill-up!
It's easy to blame the oil companies (as the Clinton ad does) and claim that widfall profits taxes could be used to reduce consumer taxes. But the windfall profits themeselves - and greenhouse gasses and global warming and the pressure on food prices - ultimately come from too much demand and consumption. Increasing the consumer tax would tend to reduce widfall profits. Better still, efficiency mandates, improved public and mass transit are the things we should be doing, not having tax holidays.
Didn't a bridge collapse. How soon we forget.
Jen's got the right idea - I've been saying for years that we need to declare war on Global Warming.
I agree with the callers! People won't change their habits until it hits home (meaning their pocketbook).
The gas tax is supposed to pay for road construction and maintenance. Given the state of roads and bridges, it is insane to reduce or suspend the gas tax.
In fact, I seem to recall that even now the gas tax only covers around 70% of the cost of road construction. This means that I am subsidizing somebody else's driving habit. As a fiscal conservative, I resent that.
It's too late. Those people already live in unsustainable locations with no access to transit. What are they going to do now? MOVE??? We're spoiled as New Yorkers.
I wish reality would set in and people would realize that this money is only going to be borrowed from China.
And do people who support the gas tax holiday also support the current tax refund? Because they are based on the economic same idea.
#45
The problems Robert Moses introduced can be reversed...with an iron fist. However, Washington is and always will be too slow to react.
telecommute telecommute telecommute
State of Connecticut has had a carpool website -- very active -- for at least 7 years.
I am trying to teach myself how to deal with less water before that is imposed upon me - that will be devastated.
I don't know how many people lived through the 1979 energy crisis and the long lines to get gas - we do not learn!
No! We should be investing in mass transit and not encouraging people to drive more.
Thanks Clinton for showing us again that you just want to get elected. She talks about nuking Iran, giving you the tax credit temporary. All playing to the less educated white voters. At least we see her true colors.
Obama at least did his homework.
This is a ridiculous populistic proposal!!
The tax should be quadrupled to give people amn incentive to conserve.
Gas prices in Europe are $8/per gallon for decades...
To make it cost neutral for the american consumer, give every one a tax break at the end of the year (maybe, depending on how much they have to drive or have driven in the past...)
But everybody has to feel the pain at the pump!
Btw, I love to drive, too.
Any excess revenue should be re-invested in better public transport!
What about food prices? This makes no sense!
We should quadruple the gas tax, using the extra money to develop alternative fuels and investigate high speed rail that covers the entire country. Gasoline will have to be up to $10/gallon before the environmental impact is taken seriously. Let's push it up there, now!
A gas tax holiday won't significantly help drivers, and it will take funding away from already anemic infrastructure projects. Making unsustainable transportation options cheaper only postpones the development and adoption of alternative transportation and fuels.
There are economically intelligent ways for the government to help families in need. This is not one of them.
The only way people will start seriously considering alternatives to private car transportation in this country is when it costs too much to drive. Why should we subsidize oil use and increased pollution in this country? Hillary's priorities are way off.
re: previous comment about web site - I didn't explain clearly - I was talking about car pooling for commuters - thanks
Most of the folks who tout the evils of driving have never been on a reeking, crowded greyhound bus - or they can afford to fly and see their families. The average family, elitists, including my own, saves $600 over air travel to drive to see our families across the country even with the increased gas prices. Have you ever considered this? What form of public/amtrak transportation accepts a family of 4 and a dog along with a portable crib, w/reasonable food and sleeping accomodations. Have you seen amtrak's prices? let's stop w/the 'let them eat cake' attitude.
I believe that the gas tax should remain in force, and even be increased. We need to find ways to stop using oil altogether, and maybe the gas tax should go toward funding research into alternative energy sources.
Where are the politicians on the bigger issue?
Remember John Kennedy:
"First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth. No single space project in this period will be more impressive to mankind, or more important for the long-range exploration of space; and none will be so difficult or expensive to accomplish."
What about this from any politician from any party:
"First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of getting all men and women to work and return them safely to home in a personal vehicle that does not run on fossil fuel. No single project in this period will be more impressive to mankind, or more important for our nation; and none will be so difficult or expensive to accomplish."
Where are they? Counting the cash contributions from the oil companies, probably.
The differences in the candidates' positions on these issues seem to reflect their different potential presidential styles. McCain's is the same old Republican approach of cutting taxes without replacing income to the federal coffers, Clinton's is populist and compromising, and Obama's provides us with the only hope of real leadership by changing the old course that has our planet on the express lane to ecological disaster.
I spend over $80 a month to get to and from work and get to the supermarket. I used to live in the midwest and had to drive. You may not be able to go on road trips for the equivalent cost, but you can certainly survive. Tighten your driving belts, kids, and plan for less driving in the future (better vehicles/moving/etc.).
I, too, agree completely with Jen from Brooklyn (on the air caller). Couldn't have said it better.
I would be ecstatic if people felt they could no longer drive as much as they do. Take a train on your summer vacation, at least part way. Stop running to the mall every 10 minutes in your SUV. Car pool. Ask employers to run economical shuttle buses, like school buses, to pick up employees. Lobby for public transportation and at the very least buy and force manufacturers to produce more energy efficient cars. I think the price of gas should be $6 per gallon or higher, reflecting more of the real cost to the environment. Thanks. Jen.
What is wrong with driving 50MPH. I have a Toyota Corolla and get almost 50 mpg if I do not exceed 50.
I know the suggestion is heresy, but then stop complaining. Let's ditch the SUV's too
Come on Brian, why not a permanent cut? We don't pay for anything as it is. Bridges are falling, roads are crumbling and you pander to some nitwit who wants to know why "they" can't get rid the gas tax permanently. The reason this is not practical is becasue the revenue is needed to maintain the system that is falling apart around us. Surely you can grasp that. If your nitwit caller wants to leave his SUV in the garage and take mass transit maybe we could do without taxes to maintain the infrastructure. That doesn't seem to be a choice most of us are willing (or able) to make.
I think the only way to make the "No" argument politically viable is stress just how quickly that $0.18 savings will evaporate as a result of increased consumption and speculation that will occur in expectation of increased consumption, and how the shock of reimposing of that tax at the start of Fall will negatively affect the election. And if anything, that will work against McCain since it will be on Bush's watch that the spike would occur.
No tax holiday! The federal tax goes to support the highway system, infrastructure that really needs the money. On top of that, it will be a trivial amount of money saved by the individual driver and we all know what will happen when the tax holiday is over; Republicans will cry "tax increase" and burden because gas will continue to go up over the summer driving season and this will further increase it.
There is absolutely no talk of conservation and this is the most disheartening aspect of this whole discussion. For conservation, I'm not even talking about public transportation or car pooling--which public policy and community planning nationwide have obviously tried hard to fight--, but simple things that would start to correct our wasteful ways. I know people who drive what would be a 10-15 minute walk to the other side of their mega subdivision to visit friends and family or drive a few blocks to pick up that half-gallon of milk they forgot at the market. Obviously I'm not talking about the habits of people in the City, but how the majority of the driving public tends to live. It somehow seems politically incorrect to tell people they reap what they sow when they choose less efficient vehicles or to live 20-30-40-50 miles from work creating their long commutes and high fuel bills.
NC,
yes they should move.
i call for a reurbanization!
cities are more green than sprawl
hjs,
and other green-elites - people should move? they should drive less? let them eat cake is what you are saying. Have you been on a stinking greyhound bus - have you taken young children on a 90 degree subway platform? Do you know that people live far from their jobs because they can't afford to live near them? I have almost no disposables in my house, im agressive about energy conservation, my car is a tiny, efficient toyota - but I won't tell a poor family that sews all its clothes and survives check to check that they ought to move- or they ought to fly to grandmas for $1300- instead of driving the old station wagon -- come on.
This is a ridiculous, populistic proposal!
The gas tax should be at least quadrupled to give people an incentive to conserve.
Europeans pay $8/gallon for decades now.
To make it COST NEUTRAL for the beleaguered american motorist, though, people should get a tax break at the end of the year (maybe, based on their necessity to drive, home-work distance, or average over the past years...)
But everybody has to feel the pain at the pump!
Only that will open the eyes to the potentially tremendous savings of not driving!
Any surplus revenue should have to be re-invested in public transportation.
That will also take care of Major Bloomberg's congestion plans...
The air will be cleaner, parking will be easier, the streets will be freer....
And even if you have to drive, it will be more fun, if you are not trapped in a traffic jam.
Hey, I'm German after all, but also a coping strap hanger & an avid cyclist.
It's a no-brainer, it just requires political cojones...
(select your bike seat carefully)
One more vote for less driving. I know people who work for governmental "environmental" agencies who spend their summer weekends driving to "the shore." People should stay close to home, try to avoid wasting gas and electricity, maybe even pick up a good book. I say, You play, you pay.
In response to people who don't want to take "Greyhound" buses or stand on hot subway platforms, I do those things all the time and manage to enjoy every minute of my life. I don't think that the quality of my life in a high density urban environment with many low-income and immigrant neighbors is any lower than the quality of life found in some of the tonier suburbs where cars are necessary. Because I live close to where I work and in a neighborhood I can actually afford, I have hours and hours of free time each day. Imagine what people could do with free time! Cook healthful meals at home for themselves? Grow a garden? If people put a price tag on the years of life wasted sitting in cars (and breathing the exhaust from those darn Greyhounds!), they might see the wisdom of learning to enjoy traveling with and close to "the people." Americans have forgotten that time is a limited resource, too. It's not just about how much gas costs. How much is an hour (in the garden, with your kids, with a good book) worth?
I'd rather see a holiday from the Archer-Daniels-Midland tax. We are paying a huge premium in subsidies and higher gasoline prices to add ethanol to gas. It cuts gas mileage by about 25% and causes vapor lock. It costs more energy to create corn ethanol than we get burning the ethanol in our engines.
All because Archer-Daniels-Midland Company is good at buying politicians.
"They'd love to retain
Two percent Oxygen
Imposing some ethanol,
Pandering to corn men,
But,
It's stupid to carry, or
Buy, in gasoline,
Oxygen, which is everywhere,
I've ever been."
Basia,
Good points when you're living a great single life (which I do miss) - but ask low income people - let's say east harlem - if having the highest asthma rate in the city is better than the suburbs, or how easy it is get around on the subway w/ a child under six-asthma and hot platforms do not mix. who has a garden? you can't even get an organic apple in harlem. Humans sometimes prefer wide open spaces and clean air - if you've lived in the city your whole life, you might have a rosier view of the suburbs. When you've lived in priviledged surroundings for most of your life, the city seems cute - till you have that first kid and push a stroller over a syringe.
I agree that in the long run, people are going to have to consider these distances when they move far from their families and workplaces. I've "gone greyhound" (and chinatown bus, and in packed cars), it's no luxury, but I was lucky to be able to afford holidays at home. We've been spoiled for decades with being able to travel (via car and plane) so cheaply. That just can't last. Believe me, I'll miss road-trips, too, but we have to learn we can't continue to live on credit.
Dawn,
My husband and I made a decision not to have kids so many years ago. We weren't trying to "save the planet," probably just save our sanity. I respect all people and their decisions. A good life for kids often requires different circumstances than the single or childless person's life (not always, though).
I grew up on a small farm and had to learn how to work with plants. What I've realized while urban gardening for over 15 years is that, honestly, not fighting deer and rabbits is a God send and enables me to grow more food in the city with less effort than I could in the same size plots in the suburbs/country. I can also harvest about 6 weeks longer here than in the surrounding countryside because, due to the retained heat in urban areas, I get to pick my last tomatoes from the vine over Thanksgiving weekend!
For affordable housing with big yards/gardens, check out Jersey City. NJ has the best public school system in the nation (by the way). We're just across the river. The Path is clean and very reliable. From Journal Square, the train ride to WTC is about 8 minutes; to Greenwich Village (Christopher St), it's about 12 mins.
When I lived in Greenpoint (for years), I was surrounded by houses with gardens. Maybe Harlem doesn't have many, but, they're out there in the vicinity, if you look!
Good luck with finding an urban setting that works for you and your family!
Dawn, Dawn, Dawn
u pick up a few rare points. there is incredible waste in the sprawl, that's the point. it's those, who drive alone in their SUV's and Hummer's who are killing our nation. It's the Mcmansions, it's HFCS, it's corn fed beef, but all means do what you can.
i'm sorry if you'r poor but i bet there's more for u in the city than beyond the city walls. I'm not rich either but i get by.
subway in the heat with kids; take a bus. adapt
hjs,
whoops - did I say I was poor? I don't think i did - but I'll let it go that you made that assumption- but if you care to look outside your own experience - you will find that certain people get redlined and certain people get trapped in certain areas w/no choices - and those with the freedom to live where they want are often the ones casting judgment on the lifestyles and choices of everyone else. I am sick to death of suv's and mcmansions and everything else - but instead of telling the poor how to raise their kids and where to live - get active w/ zoning boards and challenge emissions standards and the systems that allow the rich to continue to consume all of the resources and pay none of the costs. we keep looking to the poor to solve all the problems of the country - go have a boycott at the lexus lot - go stand in front of a mcmansion and have a protest - the rich are funding sprawl while municipalities allow highways to run through inner cities. There isn't anything romantic about the inner city when you can't get the hell out - but something tells me you wouldnt know about that.
Basia,
Thanks for your comments. It would be nice if more people had the same options you do. thanks again - was good chatting.
dawn,
there's always a way out if one wants it. education.
you're right about one thing, i don't know anything about you.
i'm not telling people how to raise their kids. but why do the cities have to support the ininefficient communities in the sprawl with subsidies? where do we grew food?
why do we sent money to the middle east oil state if we are at war with them?
stay in brooklyn!
ps
we should pick up the syringes don't u think?
Dawn,
Whether rich or poor, though, people can make an effort to grow food. It only takes one person or a few to figure out where to find the space to start (a windowsill?). Seeds and soil are relatively affordable. Recycled plastic containers are free.
When I lived in Greenpoint, that's what I did. In my building, there was an old couple who gardened every summer. My husband and lived above and had no garden of our own, but I started reading Organic Gardening and growing little things on the windowsills. When we moved, we found a space behind our building and that was the beginning of "urban gardening" for us.
Now, I have "horticultural assistants," local teenagers, who work in our garden and eat delicious meals grown, harvested and prepared together! My goals are to teach these kids to create their own gardens (urban, suburban, rural) and to have them pass these skills to their kids.
Gardening skills were lost after WWII. We need them more than ever. Gardening seems like a little step, but, actually, it's gigantic and can reverberate generations from now. Urban gardening is an ancient idea. We've just forgotten that, until very recently, nearly all people had to grow as much as possible for themselves, no matter where they lived. It was a matter of survival and could well become that once again...
When it comes to proactive changes for improving our environment, people should do whatever they can on their own budgets in their own neighborhoods.
another general comment, I'd have to say when we are talking about the planet and everyone's health, when the planet is harmed, we all suffer. think about this, just a few selfish people in the USA could lead to the deaths of millions of people in Bangladesh. looking at the big picture is not always joyful but that effects one's children and grandchild in the long term.
b,83
i've wonder if it's healthy to eat urban grown food. does the local air pollution get into the friut of the plant?
hjs,
its clear we have a lot of shared opinions - i completely agree with you on probably 98% of your thoughts - but even w/a yale education and advanced degree you can be kept out a healthy neighborhood b/c you are the wrong color, gender, ethnicity. I just wish the green-visionaies were more empathetic to the realities of peoples lives. If we were, we would win more supporters. We tell local people in other countries not to clear trees to plant crops but we don't stand up to loggers who illegally obliterate forrests and murder the opposition (brazil last week) we need to grow the'cojones' our friend from germany says to stand up to the real enemies.
re: syringes - you need to be trained to handle them or you can infect yourself. you shouldnt put in a garbage bag or public can because the super/sanitation person can stick him/herself while changing the garbage. don't know the solution - v.dangerous.
hjs --
About possible soil contamination, it's important to grow in at least six inches of fresh, organic matter. You can buy organic compost for about $2.50/40-lb bag or can make your own compost. We do both. The most important feature of our garden, in my opinion, is our compost pile, which I bring every visitor to see and from which we've dug tons of homegrown compost. I get my friends to bring over whatever they want to "donate" -- banana peels and egg shells are fantastic for tomato plants. Rose bushes love those, too, plus coffee grounds. If I ever find myself in the "country" with a vehicle and near a compost pile, I fill as many bags as possible and dump them in our plots.
Soil testing is very affordable. You dig up a small sample and send it to your county extension agency. They give you soil content breakdowns and can let you know if there are any contaminants.
There are some basic rules that urban gardeners follow: greens (lettuce, arugula, herbs) are the things most likely to take up heavy metals from the soil, so, if you're growing them, make sure you have a 6-inch top layer of clean, composted soil. Fruits (peppers, cucumbers, tomatoes) and roots (carrots, beets, potatoes) are not likely to take up harmful soil contaminants, if they exist.
There are tons of sites on this on the net, and county extension personnel are experts willing to share a wealth of info.
dawn,
i think these problems, we speak of, are all connected.
there's no reason for syringes on your street.
when middle class/ working class people left the cities (possible because of cheap gas policy)
the city government became unresponsive to the needs of the people. now the city looks great and the only new buildings are luxury high rise condos.
b 88
thanks for the info
basia,
you are spot on re: urban gardening - i grew up in milwaukee where 'growing power' now sets the standard for urban gardening. I patronize an organic farm that makes weekly delivieries in williamsburg and I work for my food as a member of the food coop.
HOWEVER-It's still my understanding that:
poor -especially working poor may not have time or inclination to garden and could just as easily use food subsidies to buy from local farms and farmers markets which usually accept ebt - if poor were able to support urban/local farmers we would be a lot farther ahead than if each person grew their own food.
I personally can't even make a fern grow - my point is that we need to be realistic about how people can shape their lifestyles around idealistic goals. I come off as kooky when I don't relate to people's lives before I advise them how to live. yes, we have the right ideas - but we still need to understand that people can't go to our same extremes - many times for economic reasons.
hjs,
you are right about the condition of cities. syringes, dead rodents, broken glass are a blight on inner cities. DOS lets the garbage cans overflow and doesnt give the same attention. public land is going to 'luxury' housing. its taxation w/out representation.
Dawn,
Right on to getting farmers markets into all of the neighborhoods that need them and to the coops and other affordable food-related activities you support. My husband and I participated in a volunteer organic coop, too, (in Jersey City) before we got our gardening act together. That was awesome. We got so much food per week for $35 that we had to distribute it among five adults.
By the way, at the Journal Square Path Station in Jersey City, every Wednesday from early JUne into November, there is a farmers market with the hands-down best prices on local produce anywhere in our area. These are the same farmers/bakers who sell at Union Square and in other chichi neighborhoods, but their "Jersey side" prices are incredible! Whenever my Brooklyn and Manhattan friends come to this farmers market, they stuff as much as they can into their bags to take back with them.
In Jersey City, mothers with kids do get special benefits at this farmers market. The elderly can also get coupons, but, it's difficult to get proper attention from that particular city agency (I tried for my in-laws one summer and actually gave up due to frustration).
Right on for affordable real food making its way to all of the people. That is actually happening where I live.
It was a pleasure chatting. I have to sign off now. Maybe everyone could, in his or her own way, make a tiny difference in the 'hood.
As for the problem with garbage pick-up and basic street sweeping, this does tend to happen in lower income areas, now, doesn't it? It can be disgusting. In my 'hood, we had a local mtg. with public officials in attendance and yelled bloody murder about trash not being picked up. We saw nearly an immediate improvement. Of course, we (the people) are going to keep an eye on this to see that proper street sweeping and garbage removal continue. My 'hood is pretty much low-income and immigrant, so we don't have a lot of "pull," but a bit of yelling did get some action. It only takes a few people to get the ball rolling...
dawn
can you pass on info about farm delivering to williamsburg?
Absolutely NO WAY should the gas tax be cut. If the government wants to save drivers money, they can *raise* the gas tax and dedicate the money to expanding and improving public transportation, so that people aren't forced to drive everywhere and can fill up far less frequently.
hjs - the food drop off is through this record store called 'Eat' on Meserole in Greenpoint (not w'burg) - i hope you check back. sorry for the delay
No. I think that this is typical of the type of pandering that Hillary has been willing to do lately in order to pull centrist voters. While I know that, relatively speaking, our gas prices have been rising, we need to remember that our gas is still the cheapest in the world. We need to reduce our use of gasoline, not the price of it.
This thread is closed.
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