On Demand
Sin City
Tuesday, March 11, 2008
Paul Finkelman, professor of law and public policy at Albany Law School and blogger for the Huffingtonpost.com, talks about the legal and political implications of Governor Spitzer's alleged misconduct.
- About the Brian Lehrer Show »
- Staff Bios »
- Contact Us »
- Tapes and Transcripts »
- Latest Episode »
- Show Archive »
Features & Series
Podcast
Stay up to date.
Subscribe to the Podcast
YOU PRODUCE The Brian Lehrer Show
Be a listener-producer with facts, questions and people you'd like to hear on the air.
More
The Brian Lehrer Show Scrapbook
Visit the scrapbook for daily photos and miscellany from The Brian Lehrer Show.
More
Shop at Amazon!
The Brian Lehrer Show picks
Start your Amazon shopping on WNYC.org and a portion of your total purchase goes to WNYC.
More
Comments
Refresh
Please Brian, though Gov. Spitzer has been a bulldozer in his dealings with people, we should not forget that he was overwhelmingly elected by the voters (with the help from the Media) to clean up corruption in Albany. We should not lose sight of the fact that we need Campaign finance reform and that the corruption typified by Senator Bruno has received a free pass by the media as well as the lack of accountability that currently exists for Democrat and Republican officials alike. (I.e., no follow up on Gov. Pataki’s corruption).
Let’s not let the sordid details of sexual scandal distract us from the real corruption that is destroying the finances and governability in this state. A federal crime of prostitution is a very SERIOUS matter, but not as serious as corruption that diverts the taxpayer’s dollars to line the pockets of politicians and politically connected businessmen.
why couldn't he just be like the French and have a mistress?
this is so Jerry Springer, but worse.
j, above, has a point.
It's not the sex, it's the stupidity.
But really, the sheer level of schadenfreude this event has provided to those of us who are less accomplished (read: non-governor losers) should be reason to give Governor Spitzer a second chance. A second chance to self-implode - and in such a spectacular across-state-lines fashion - that all of us could feel as better about ourselves as we did today. Almost all day.
Now we can officially stop pretending decent folk, because Governor Spitzer, at this moment in time, looks a lot worse - after all, he broke the law after promising to uphold it. So, every guy who was moaning about his measly Christmas bonus this year, every old maid with two cats, every parent who abandoned their child, and every serial philanderer can now officially feel a whole lot better. Thank you, Governor Spitzer. Don't ever change.
And one last thing, who among us didn't laugh fondly at the detail left in the New York Times from the call girl, who reported that Client 9 hadn't been as difficult as the other call girls had reported him. Our irrascible Spitzer, it's all so endearing.
The case against Elliott Mess has less to do with prostitution than it does with money laundering. He was hiding those financial transactions. This is only the beginning of a much larger scandal involving a public official serving at the highest state level. He used the name of a wall street friend and the bank suspected (last summer) he was involved in a bribery scandal and that is why they contacted the feds. He seems to have had many many transactions involving $4-5 thousand dollar amounts. How were they financed? Sounds like a big fed RICO case is coming down the Thruway. Resign, gov. Now.
My wife said, "Oh, he's just a guy being a guy."
As I began to make my suddenly absurd sounding opposing argument I realized how brainwashed and knee jerk PC it sounded. I'm not defending Spitzer, who hurt his family, but now I'm starting to think it would be better if he DOESN"T step down.
PS If the governor of Nevada (where prostitution is legal) visited a prostitute is it even news?
Silda, when this blows over, call me. ;-)
Hmmm....Let's go back to that "Why Women Should Rule the World" segment that WNYC aired a couple weeks ago. I'm getting really tired of these XY slimebags in our government....
I am speechless with disgust. And I agree - it's not the sex so much as the sheer stupidity.
I don't understand these guys. From John F. Kennedy to Gary Hart to Bill Clinton and now Elliot Spitzer... I mean, haven't they ever heard of masturbation?
Not that our society is mature enough to handle it but it certainly would cause a lot less pain to everybody if a political official got his rocks off in private.
Or maybe it isn't about sex, but power?
If that's the case then our society is going to have to make some kind of emotional re-adjustment about what kind of person deserves to be running things.
There is nothing new about prostitution and it should be legalized, as it is in Holland. The more you make something taboo, the more people will want it. Just look at prohibition and alcohol, and alcohol has caused more tragedy than this incident.
What makes Spitzer's error horrid, is that he ran on moral rectitude, and worse, he may have laundered money for the sexual services. This is the part that will surely end his political career for the time being.
Bill Clinton set a new standard for surviving scandal. Before Clinton, a politician--or any prominent public figure--who was involved in a scandal, whether it be sex, money or something else, at least had the decency to resign. Nixon did, Gary Hart did, Michael Milken did, etc. Then came the Monica Lewinsky scandal. Bill Clinton, after committing two felonies--perjury and obstruction of justice--decided to tough it out to the bitter end, no matter who or what was negatively affected (in his case: the country, the office of the presidency, the Constitution, his party and his family). And he won against all odds! Thus, he irrevocably separated “shame” from “scandal” and created a new path of success to future scandal mongers, like Martha Stewart, like Paris Hilton, like Larry Craig, etc. If Spitzer resigns, he forfeits all the powers of the governorship and will weaken his legal defenses enormously. He might as well hang in there and tough it out like Bill Clinton (be damned the state, his party and his family) and see if he can come out on the other side smelling like a rose so he (or his wife) can some day run for president. “It’s only sex” is what the Clinton apologists said to the Sexual McCarthyists, right?
I smell the filth of Bruno in this. Nonetheless this was devastating for me, I have the highest regard for the Governor and will continue to. Was he wrong? Yes. What should happen to him? I don't know. But I personally don't want to see him leave office. I think it's time we check out the sexual misbehavior of everyone in office and in the media as well. I often ask what kind of life does so and so anchor or reporter live? Especially the moral finger-pointing ones!
scary things:
1) He was into non-safe sex. The NYT article says that other prostitutes complained about him. Does this mean the obvious or something more?
2)He was not stupid, he was a hypocrite. Committing the same crime for which he prosecuted others. Hubris. The human condition - the mighty one day fall?
Well, I agree that prostitution should be legalized, but even if it were legal, he'd still be cheating on his wife.
But, as has been said, what's REALLY terrible about all this is the arrogance and stupidity this man showed to think that he could get away with this. I mean, if you're planning to run for public office, you have to keep it in your pants! I mean, is it really THAT difficult? And if these men are really so desperate to have a variety of women, then they just shouldn't get married! I know that a bachelor over the age of 30 is a sinful, evil man who is entirely unfit for public office and completely unelectable, but maybe (just maybe?) some politician should give it a shot and see what happens.
The worst part of this scandel is yet to come.
Was the prostitute a minor? Notice they haven't said her AGE.
Finally he committed a felony by having her cross state lines.
This is the worst he get a parking ticket because our legal system is as corrupt or more so then he is.
Now should begin the investigation of Paterson!
Let's see if he was client #10!
The real shock of all this is that it came during a week when Brian was not on vacation!! That said, when all the jokes are made and the tuts are tutted, I feel a wave of sadness because this spitzer guy, arrogant though he may have been, really did want to reform albany's sclerotic and cynical culture. The fact that he will be gone soon should not discourage us from pushing the clean up of New York's state govenment as the days go forward. It may even be that "Spitzerism" will get even further without the alienating figure of Spitzer himself.
It was funny to here WNYC’s hosts’ surprise at this revelation; As if a god had fallen to earth. It seems like many mistook Spitzer’s hubris for infallibility and now that will come back to haunt him as the pressure mounts to resign. But will he? He certainly did not give any clear indication with the self-serving comment that it is “not the about the person but it is about the ideas that is what is important.” This could mean he will be ashamed of himself but that alone is not important enough to pry him from his important work as governor. Do you sycophants feel used yet?
This state line stuff is stupid. As if their is any moral distinction that he arranged a prostitute, for example, to meet him in DC from NYC as opposed to meet him in Albany?
This is pathetic. This society is so off key, off point, off base, out of whack. 1 million - 1 MILLION dead in Iraq, tens of billions of dollars missing, on a war based on lies and here we demand resignation and answers...
No stone throwing from me bro!
I think people are surprised because it's just been one catastrophe after another for this man since he first got into office after such high hopes... we haven't yet felt the sense of resignation one experiences after years of this like we've had with some other politicians.
Predict:
Silba - VP
Bruno - Guv
The worst thing is watching Silda blinking in shock before the press, looking like she's been crying for 3 days. Why the hell do these politicians caught in flagrante insist on dragging their poor spouses out there? If he's going to do that, at least kneel and kiss her feet or look her in the eye or say flat out "I do not deserve her presence right now". Say something freaking genuine....
Wasn't he worried about getting an std from the prostitutes?
I hope the poor wife didn't get one!
Resign, Resign.
Take care of your health!
I do not think he should resign because this is about SEX. At least from what I have heard so far.
The question to me is not whether I think he should resign because what I think he did is immoral. I look at in the sense of whether everyone else will hate him for it, and what effect will that have on trying to run the government. And indeed, if he hadn't hit all of these other problems, maybe this WOULD blow over, but he's made a lot of enemies and they will use this as a weapon against him every step of the way.
But that said, all of the things I've seen about his conduct suggest that he is someone who perceives himself as being above the law and uses the state as a apparatus of his own personal will.
He should not resign. So what he had sex, why are you Americans so hug up on sex. Yes he did hide it but it's a personal choice (you may think it's wrong) but he should not resign. He is capable of running NY and it's a terrible thing for his family.
Does anyone remember Herb Alpert's tune "Love Potion #9"?
Sounds like he did this many many times fyi.
I don't mind that he had sex, Ketan, I'm not hung up about that, he can screw himself into oblivion with a cow for all I care. I'm hung up on the fact that he had sex with a hooker and was DUMB ENOUGH TO GET CAUGHT AND DUMB ENOUGH TO NOT USE HIS OWN FRIGGIN' CASH TO PAY FOR IT! Furthermore, I'm hung up on the fact that ONCE AGAIN the true issues at hand are waylaid because a typical elected official couldn't keep it in his pants and now we have to be subjected to the torture of the media digging into the sordid details with relish.
Now, the next question is will Clinton both REJECT and DENOUNCE Spitzer, hee hee hee....
Speeding is a crime. Jaywalking is a crime. Spitting in public is a crime in some places. We are all criminals.
Now the caller wants him to resign because he is an arrogant bully. Well then Bush should resign, too.
Sue,
Whose cash did he use? I assume it was HIS own money, but you claim otherwise. If he used public funds for this, then yes, he should certainly resign. To say you don't care that he had sex you care that he was caught is a weird statement. Although I agree with your comment about how he should kneel before her and admit his unworthiness.
If he did this w the same woman more than a dozen x (didn't I read that?) lets keep in mind they were probably enjoying a relationship that cannot be characterized simply as a "john-prostitute."
Not to be catty or intrusive but there is a difference btwn that and going once to be w a random woman -- the standard american persp. of what "going to a prostitute" means.
Makes me (re) wonder why NJ Guv REALLY resigned.
Chris, at the same time, I don't think we should be setting any kind of bar for our politicians based on what Bush has done or has had done to him... If we say that the federal government and the press that covers it is corrupt, confused and totally incapable of regulating itself, the solution is not to say that we're going to remove the standards for our more local officials as well. We shouldn't say that if Bush hasn't been impeached or forced to resign for his shenanigans that therefore we won't demand that from Spitzer. If anything, we should set an example... and a precedent. We should start from the ground up to demand better government and better government leaders.
Spitzer will survive because that's what he's about. My comment is about the wives who are obliged to stand in front of hundreds of cameras in full view of the world while they stand by their stupid / dishonest / lubricious / immoral husbands, looking sandbagged and obviously dying inside. Why is this expected?
and the feds still haven't found bin laden, but this peaks their interest.
Well, in the case of McGreevey, being gay was an easy way to leave office with sympathy as opposed to being taken away in handcuffs. He was involved in A LOT of shady deals... creating public offices that never existed before just to give his friends jobs.. he was in deep trouble, and basically his opponents managed to find something that would allow him to get out of their way relatively easily and without a fight.
When listening to Dershowitz's specious arguments one cannot help but approach wonderment at his ignoring the big white elephant sitting in the middle of the room: Eliot Spitzer is a man who made his career out of prosecuting individuals on ethics issues and did so by employing the force of intimidation and government clout. All arguments about the crime are irrelevant faced with the enormous dereliction of public duty as a governor of a major state, who moved money around allegedly, in order to cover up what the majority of people think is a meaningless act. It is not a meaningless act to lose the public trust. If you want to end today's show with a de-moralization of the issue of prostitution, then all I can say is good luck as you head into the last days of Rome.
oh no big deal this is just a private guy doing his thing everyone relax. ahem.
Next hour: A call in on how this is unfair and oppressing prostitutes. Let's examine how this is wrecking their lives and careers.
AN ASPECT OF THIS THAT NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT
From the Harper's magazine Web site:
http://harpers.org/archive/2008/03/hbc-90002589
"...there is a second tier of questions that needs to be examined with respect to the Spitzer case. They go to prosecutorial motivation and direction.
"...the Public Integrity Section at the Department of Justice...is now at the center of a major scandal concerning politically directed prosecutions. During the Bush Administration, his Justice Department has opened 5.6 cases against Democrats for every one involving a Republican.
"Beyond this, a number of the cases seem to have been tied closely to election cycles....
[...]
"All of these facts are consistent with a process which is not the investigation of a crime, but rather an attempt to target and build a case against an individual.
...The Justice Department needs to submit to some questions about how this probe got launched, who launched it, and to what extent political appointees were involved in its direction.
"This has nothing to do with Spitzer’s guilt or innocence. But it has everything to do with the fading integrity of the Public Integrity Section."
Huffington Post is now a news source? Huh?!
as usual Dershowitz is full of shit. unfortunately or not, this would not be "less than a misdemeanor". The reason why Spitzer should resign is because he is a total hypocrite- unlike Bill Clinton.
What does the Daily Kos say about all this....
You know what I really can't stand? This act is repugnant and the Brian Lehrer show typical of liberals, uses it as an opportunity to examine issues of morality. It all just makes me want to puke.
I think the only way he can politically weather this is if he becomes completely humble, tail between legs, and goes back to his political allies and opponents as a sinner, as one of them, and agrees to work with them, instead of against them.
Does Matt Drudge have an opinion on this? I'd like to hear him interviewed about the morality of all this.
gather the wood, we're going to burn some witches
I'm in favor of the whoring around governor. Chalk me up on your tally Brain.
Brian: "You have to wonder if there are others out there at these prices who are going to be caught......" Yes, talk about witches, you wash your hands and luxuriate in this Brian. You love this.
Please interview more "bloggers" as they are the barometer of public opinion.
There is no question in my mind that Spitzer should resign. He has shown himself to be a hyprocrit of the first order. Let him do the honorable thing now and leave with apologies to his trusting public. He can still work behind the lines to influence change.
It makes me wonder. If Spitzer flew to Amsterdam and got it on then flew back would it be a big deal.
Disclosure: I'm not a fan of Spitzer.
That said, the reason Spitzer's bank transactions were looked into might have something to do with someone -- at a low level -- working for the bank or perhaps the IRS with sympathy for the Republicans revealing Spitzer's transaction patterns to another who ultimately revealed this information to an insider in the Republican Party. Then the ball got rolling. Just a thought.
Oh and as for STD's you do not get an STD from a $4000.00 dollar prostitute! Thats why you pay $4000.00 for sex.
Anyone can get an STD from anyone, a $4,000 prostitute is no different. They are not above diseases and more likely to have.
Resign, Spitzer, Resign!
David Patterson would make a great Governor. He is a soft spoken consensus builder with experience.
Spitzer, the 'spike' driving 'steamroller,' was toast last year when he tried to throw a wrench into Bruno's helicopters. 2007 and 2008 was and is another lost year with Spitzer.
Now, he's further dragging down Hillary and the Democrats nationally.
I was an early Spitzer supporter when he took on Wall Street Abuses, but he lost me when he never investigated his real estate buddies and the traders who profited from the attacks on our city in 2001.
His best move would be to resign and let Patterson lead us forward together.
He should resign ASAP.
There are moral Democrats and moral Republicans and immoral Dems and immoral Reps. This isn't about a political party. It's about the law, which politicians of all political stripes, unfortunately, sometimes break.
This is not a personal failing. His choice to transport a woman from one state to another is against laws on the books NOW. So regardless of whether you think it should or should not be a law, PROSTITUTION IS ILLEGAL. Americans, whether president of the U.S. or governor of NY, MUST play by the existing rules. Ignorance of the law -- and opinions of it -- do not excuse criminal activity. The governor paid a woman for sex and trafficked her across state lines; this is not just an affair.
What goes on his family is private. But in bringing out his wife during his brief press conference, and nodding to her and his failings as a family man, he opened up his family to some public scrutiny. Worse, his decision to have her stand with him suggests that the arrogant lawyer, hoping to cling to his high-ranking position, effectively pimped her out. Gross.
His breaking of the law as a lawyer, former attorney general, and the state's top politician is a public matter. He broke the law and with it the public's trust. Wake up, Democrats! He needs to step down.
Poor judgment, arrogant, and hypocritical on all counts, but that describes much of political behavior on issues that have far more devastating effects on the public good than this matter, which is primarily between Governor Spitzer and his wife. If he can weather the public humiliation, he will be a better man for it, both as a husband and a governor. In the meantime, can we weather another round of feeding frenzy and tut-tutting based on the oldest story in book? Let's grow up, America, and stop wasting time and energy on cheap moralism and let the Spitzers work it out. Maybe we should censor the ad about "what happens in Las Vegas" on the public airways - is location everything?
i would like a citation for 1 million dead in iraq (comment 18). according to http://www.iraqbodycount.org it is beneath 90,000 so far ...
58 and others who claim this is about breaking the law: don't you think the law is sometimes wrong? imo there is always a time lag between the moral zeitgeist and laws being updated to reflect them, especially in a country as sexually repressed and religious as america.
It is true that I possibly exaggerated. Here is the study that estimates 655,000 Iraqi deaths as of July 2006.
http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/images/journals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf
Here is an update that says its over a million but I am not sure about the method: http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html
Whether it is 90,000 innocent dead Iraqis or half a million or a million, there can only be one demand: IMPEACHMENT. But of course, so many dems went along that would be hard.
Isn't the real issue that he is a leader and leaders shouldn't do this to US?
He did not do anything to us. Unless you are his wife or child, what did he do to you?
Chuck Berry went to prison for the Mann Act. That was 47 years ago.
Leave a Comment
Please stay on topic, be civil, and be brief.
Back to EpisodeEmail addresses are never displayed, but they are required to confirm your comments. Names are displayed with all comments. WNYC reserves the right to edit any comments posted on this site. Please read the WNYC.org Comment Guidelines before posting.