wnyc.org / 93.9fm / am 820

Comments

• [1] Lois from Manhattan - Harlem August 16, 2007 - 11:15AM

  Finally, finally. This so obvious connection between the physical violence of slavery and Black family violence is being spoken about outside of academia. My experience of seeing Black people hit their children in public is too too frequent and so painful. And as Stacey points out, it is always defended. We will need to be speaking out about this ceaselessly because this early violence is literally tearing us up before we even hit school and the emotional violence of the savage racist world.

  
  
• [2] Daniel Bavolack from Manhattan August 16, 2007 - 11:18AM

  On an M4 bus traveling west on 110th street, I encountered a small black child being beaten by a very large mother, using her 3-inch belt. When I attempted to intervene by telling the mother how she could be in trouble if the child was injured, other young women in the bus defended her actions, and I couldn't understand this. Now I understand.

  They kept saying to me: "We don't have Columbine in Harlem."

  Should I have called 911?

  
  
• [3] a from NYC August 16, 2007 - 11:23AM

  I am so glad someone is FINALLY talking about this.

  As a person of color I have often been disgusted when I've seen some of this abuse in public. A couple of weeks ago I saw one mother threatening to "f&*% up" her child if she didn't stop making noise...screaming at her at the top of her lungs, hitting her and threatening serious violence to her...because she was being a kid. I have seen such displays many times in public. MANY times.

  I have seen this many times. I am sensitive to this because I went through it as a child. One incident in 4th grade my mother threatened to kill me in my sleep. I remember locking myself in the bathroom all night.

  When I dated a Haitian girl in college, she revealed to me that in her country that some parents would by whips sold in stores for the purpose of "disciplining" their children.

  I find it incredibly stupid and wrong when black comedians joke about abuse as if it is acceptable and something integral to being black.

  It has been a taboo to speak against this mentality within the black community and I commend this woman for speaking out about it and calling it what it is: abuse, plain and simple.

  
  
• [4] Trevor from LIC August 16, 2007 - 11:23AM

  Although I am white, I was never hit outside the home when I got in trouble as a child. "Spanking" was a formal affair that if anything, psyched me out more in its build-up than in its actual execution.

  Although I won't defend violent discipline such as smacking of kids on the bus or in the grocery store, I think there is some argument to a dispassionate, almost "ritualized" punishment that informs a child's consciousness of who is in charge and what behavior is/is not acceptable.

  
  
• [5] Jon P. from Hewitt, NJ August 16, 2007 - 11:23AM

  The reality is everybody of all social classes from all communities beat their kids. Why blame it on slavery? Why not tell it how it is that is a misguided distortion in discipline? If anything, child abuse has no economical or racial bios. Is your guest really helping child advocacy by making it a race thing? Child abuse is just wrong no matter how try to justify it.

  
  
• [6] AWM from UWS August 16, 2007 - 11:28AM

  I was beaten as a child and now that I have a son I will NEVER beat him. People who hit children are selfish and lazy cowards who are fulfilling impulses that they are not capable of thinking through and controlling. A child misbehaving is not an aggressive act and should not be responded to with one.

  
  
• [7] Anika from Brooklyn August 16, 2007 - 11:29AM

  What Ms. Patton has studied and written about is great. I grew up in an African American family where there was no corporal punishment. My brother and I were (and are) very well behaved and were never punished corporally. People equate not hitting their children with not having control of them and that isn't the case. It's a sad state of affairs when we think the only way to control children is to be violent.

  
  
• [8] Jean Gazis from Park Slope August 16, 2007 - 11:30AM

  Those who insist that physical violence is necessary for discipline don't know what they're talking about - they haven't tried it the other way. All a smack proves to a child is the smacker is bigger and stronger, and can't control their temper, not that they are thinking of the child's best interests. It certainly doesn't teach them how to manage their own feelings or work out problems with others by non-violent means.

  In my experience, the worst behaved children in class and other group child situations are the ones whose parents are the harshest at home. All it takes to teach children good behavior is patience, creativity, setting standards and providing a good example.

  
  
• [9] Peter from New Jersey August 16, 2007 - 11:30AM

  I don't feel as though Dr. Patton as adequete answered the point the last caller brought up. For middle or low income people who can't afford long counseling session as child help programs-- what should be done at an early age when dealing with a child that is out of control- will not listen, will not behave? Is corporal punishment altogether bad and not useful? Aren't balance and limits what is needed instead of a statement that outright corporal punishment is wrong?

  
  
• [10] Graham from Paris August 16, 2007 - 11:30AM

  whether a racial phenomenon or not, her comments are brilliant and important. Thank you for a program of immense importance to _everyone_ in society.

  
  
• [11] hjs from 11211 August 16, 2007 - 11:31AM

  PS to the caller who likes to hit. the Nanny show never advocates hitting. if you have half a brain you can out smart a child. if your rules make any sense you should have no problem explaining yourself. respect starts in the home.

  
  
• [12] SMcR August 16, 2007 - 11:39AM

  I do not know how to feel about this. As a black woman, I was beaten as a child and emotionally abused. I found the emotional abuse much more damaging. I'll never recover from that. My younger brother was badly scarred from being beaten.

  As an older black woman, I believe in spanking and yes, there is a thin line. Children are not our equals. They really have no rights. No sure how to reconcile both thoughts

  
  
• [13] JT from Long Island August 16, 2007 - 11:44AM

  Years ago I was debating this with a friend that had 4 children and favored corporal punishment. He told me that my attitude would change when I finally had children. Well, now I have a 2 year old son and my attitude against spanking has increased. I could never hit this boy that is less than half my height, weighs 5 times less than me and just hasn't lived long enough to understand the world around him. I especially can't see how I can teach him not to hit other people if I routinely hit him for not doing what I tell him to do.

  Timeouts do work. My son is well behaved, listens to us and knows when he's done something wrong. He even apologizes sometimes. I don't see how he would be better off if we had used violence instead.

  
  
• [14] Noah August 16, 2007 - 11:48AM

  I share the feelings of those who called in and have commented about their treatment as children. While the treatment I am given by my father is far less brutal than that described by Stacey Patton, I feel very strongly about violent treatment, particularly the attitudes that justify it.

  It got my blood boiling hearing the mother who justified "Showing your child who is the head of the house" and teaching them "to do what you say".

  I was so pleased when Stacey mentioned values and democracy. We need to look at this kind of violence as directly relevant to our American democratic ideals. Showing a child "who's in charge" actively models and practices the kind of submissive and selfish behavior that builds citizens unable to actively and powerfully protect their rights and exercise their power in our democratic society. I think it is no coincidence that in communities where civic participation is low that violent discipline is common. The same dogmatic, despotic/submissive values that support violent discipline erode and prevent the full expression of democracy.

  
  
• [15] chestine from NY August 16, 2007 - 11:57AM

  there's very interesting work around this being done by a man named bert hellinger - we have wonderful local practitioners - they work with energy patterns passed through families. very interesting, simple. http://www.hellinger.com/international/english/index.shtml

  
  
• [16] ldb from Montclair August 17, 2007 - 05:57PM

  Thoughtful and well informed people, including mere journalists, do not make the kinds of one-sided sweeping generalizations, and thinly researched statements that Ms. Patton made in this interview.

  It is well documented that, sadly, child neglect and abuse cross race and class lines. If spankings or other violent childrearing practices are caused by American slavery, how does that explain the widespread use of violence against children among nonblack people and people in nations that did not experience modern slavery? If using corporal punishment is solely rooted in black Pentacostal churches, how do we explain generations of Irish, Italian and Latino children who were spanked, hit with rulers, etc by "the Religious" staff in parochial schools?

  Please, child abuse is too important an issue for Ms. Patton to use simplistic pop culture theories to market her book or engage in person public psychotherapy. Those who claim to heal must first take care to do no harm.

  
  
• [17] lowell bethel from Atlanta, Georgia August 18, 2007 - 06:56PM

  I am a black guy. I have many black friends, relatives, and associates. Maybe this abuse this is more socio-economic than race-based. I am a middle-class guy. I have never known any of my fellow African-American citizens whom were physically abused in this manner. My parents are teachers. I disagree with your emperical evidence and faulty premise. Your argument is specious and ill-founded. Your argument is totally racist.

  
  
• [18] Antonio Celester from Boston, Massachusetts August 23, 2007 - 09:34AM

  I have to say that this message of "beating" or what I call "disciplining" or whatever you want to call it..is all water under the bridge these days! What do you,Mrs Patton ,think is wrong with today's Black young teens? They have not had their butts touched! In my days of being a young child my butt got whipped when I disrespected my parents or disobey them or other adults. Mrs Patton you are talking about being "abused" and nobody wants to be abused. Dicipline is very different and sometimes necessary with unrulely children. If a child's is say..being disrespectful to the parent, usually there is a warning, then a threat, then finally your butt got whipped! The lesson..obey me the parent! There were also times that a child would keep repeating the same disrespectful actions and warnings are no longer necessary. Yes, that was old school. Today parents would go to jail or face abuse charges for this kind of punishment. When the butts stopped getting touch by the magic hand of parents, the children became more undisciplined, unrulely and even dare to fight the parents in some cases. They will call the cops on you and have you arrested! The courts then make it seem like you are such a cruel parent, white people will be saying thingss like...I never hit jonny.

  
  
• [19] Queen from Trenton September 10, 2007 - 04:18PM

  I know Stacey personally and her book is an extreme exaggeration of her childhood. She has a history of mental illness and her perception reflects that. Though I agree with not hitting children, this issue is not a "black thing" it is an oppressive thing... However you do not have to make up stories to prove that point. Stacey, please get help and learn how to move past your issues without destroying the lives of others...

  PS. You know grandpa never said "the blue in scars cleanses you." Why would you say that after all they sacrificed for you?