Gene Robinson, IX Bishop of New Hampshire
Episcopalian Bishop of New Hampshire Gene Robinson, the first openly gay Episcopalian bishop, draws on religious teachings to make the case for same-sex marriage.
This interview has disturbed me. God made men and women the way they are so that they could procreate and allow more of his children to come to earth. Sexual relationships that cannot create life are against nature, perhaps not against the person's nature, but against nature. The way God created us to be. That will never change no matter how much people may want it to. Nothing can convince me that homosexuality is not a sin against God, because of my understanding of God and our purpose on earth. But I also know that I don't know the whole story of a person's life and will leave the judging up to Him who knows all.
Being a Catholic that is orthodox in my beliefs, I get offended when people say that we are intolerate to gays etc. We belief that it is wrong both spiritual and naturally. It does not mean that we are intolerate of the individual. On the contrary, we love those individuals. It is true that the liberal side of the Catholic Chruch could be leaving to go to the more liberal churches, but that is not a bad thing. What is not told is that more conservative denominations are flocking to the Catholic Church. It is what it is. The Church as founded by Christ will not change just to make someone happy about their sin. If the individual does not like it they will leave but to their detriment
Ed, they no longer happen because now people can actually read and reason. Your lovely Catholic church has been hunting Jews for the better part of the melinium, you have some balls to critique Islam but that's what you religious types do.
As a "humanist" non religious Jewess I would like to exchange this thought. Jesus which was not his original name, observed Rosh Hashonah, Yom Kippur and the rest of the Jewish holidays and never observed Christmas and Easter and died a Jew, at least as any real proof exists, I believe. For over two thousand years antisemitism has existed based on untruths of the Jewish people. Today the Christian churches are trying to treat Jews more fairly. However, the opportunity to share with the Jews more truthful historical facts and hopefully will try to erase from the less understanding non Jews a better and more understanding relationship. (5,000 years ago Jesus was Kosher) Why does the Christian religion deny his Jewish life?
In fact the three major religions should be sharing more of their common historical backgrounds and bring our worlds closer in thought.
How about a show on how gays are treated in Muslim majority countries.
You could start with the Islamic Republic of Iran theocracy.
Slavery exists today in Sudan and Mauritania.
Thank you Brian! Greeting's to Bishop Robinson. You in your interviews exemplify the tolerance & acceptance teaching that I cherish & appreciate so & give salute to having been raised in the Episcopal church. Our church is full of former Roman Catholics who want to worship God in an atmosphere that supports individuals differences.We appreciate fabulous music too!
I am an orthodox Jew and a liberal democrat, but I think Leviticus 18:22 speaks for itself (Do not lie with a male as one lies with a woman; it is an abhorrence..)
I believe that the historical context was before modern advances in fertility research, IVF and surrogate mothers. The idea was to procreate in the only way we could at the time and, obviously, if one male lies with another, it is not going to result in offspring.
The dictum was also predicated on the excesses of Sodom, Gomorrah and various other locations and peoples whose beliefs eventually lead them to sexual freedoms that were beyond the pale and which, if left unchecked, could also have resulted in disease states that could have wiped out entire societies. Whether or not one believes that AIDS is a punishment meted out by G-d, it is still a disease that was and is wiping out large portions of societies and even though bisexual men give it to their wives and intravenous drug users get it from sharing needles, we at least now have the medical technology to deal with it. In biblical times, it would have resulted in the same decimation as the Black Plague.
@jgarbuz "It was never condoned in the Bible"
Wrong. The bible does indeed condone slavery and provides rules on how to treat one's slaves. Brian was 100% right about that.
"In Biblical times homosexual acts were part of pagan rites."
That's completely false. Especially when speaking about the Greeks and Romans, that is an utterly untrue historically inaccurate statement.
"Pagan being very taboo in itself. Sorry that I don't have the reference handy"
Paganism is a broad term that would include vastly different cultures like the Romans, Egyptians, Germanic tribes, Celts, etc,etc and in "biblical times" Christianity was the taboo. You have no reference handy because what you said is not historical or factual.
Experts in the history of sex and sexuality say that in Ancient Greece and Rome (and, as the Bishop said, in the Holy Land) there were homosexual acts but our modern concept of homosexuality as an identity did not exist. People didn't think of themselves as gay, straight, bisexual the way we do now.
How sad - all these otherwise intelligent people twisting themselves into knots to justify a book written by men who were trying to control people's thoughts and distance themselves from other communities. If you hadn't had these fairy tales drilled into you as kids you'd see how limiting and dividing they are and just embrace your humanity and that of other people.
jgarbuz, you're just wrong, as usual, about slavery in the Bible. It does, in fact, condone slavery, prescribing rules of conduct for the institution. Why do you so consistently bother to utter nonsense?
Well...you may as well throw out the bible since according to the guest everything can be explained away by "God is still revealing to us what he wants",etc
God sure is taking a lot of time and allowing a lot of people to be oppressed, slain, etc as he slowly reveals that slavery is wrong, oppression against women is wrong,etc,etc
Ridiculous...the same old religious "get out of jail free card"...any kind of atrocity committed in the name of religion can be explained away (and not taken responsibility for) with such a circuitous and illogical philosophy
The bible justified slavery...acknowledge it,take responsibility for it and stop making excuses!
I agree with the guest...gay marriage should be legal...everyone should have the same and EQUAL rights...but I can't stand his anti-historical reasoning.
You don't need to justify it through religion or the bible. It's just the right thing to do...inequality is just unjust. That's all there is to it.
It's from the 4th century. 4th century. The Bible was complete about the end of the 1st century, the Gnostic gospels (which are fantasy) came in between. Meaningless.
In Biblical times homosexual acts were part of pagan rites.Pagan being very taboo in itself. Sorry that I don't have the reference handy. Great guest and segment. thanks.
Homosexuality sounds like homosexuality to me.
Have you seen the article in the Sunday NY Times about Matthew Vines, a young man from Kansas who wrote a lengthy speech which focuses on the fact that the Bible "does not discuss or condemn loving, gay relationships."?
Mr. Robinson is absolutely right. The Torah/Bible forbids alot of things that Jews and Christians choose to do i.e. working on shabbat are to be stoned to death. You could also argue that the Book was written for Jews and therefore only applies to those who are subject to the covenant. Conservative Christians want it both ways.
These are Catholics who don't understand their faith.
Of course all God's children should be valued. But supporting homosexuality activity isn't the same.
Get this religious crap off the air.
Oh, Bishop, right on. Thanks, for affirming the relationship between faith, God and reason, for underscoring the ongoing pursuit of truth, for distinguishing the Word from words, and for recognizing that it is possible to learn a few new things in 2000 years.
Slavery was abolished ONLY because the industrial revolution made the institution unnecessary. It was never condoned in the Bible, and indentured servitude was the state of someone having to work for somebody else to pay off debts and such. Chattel slavery of the kind instituted by tyrants was never condoned.
"god revealed to us that slavery is wrong" - wow! i think the slaves had that revelation way way way before "us" had God reveal his ways! (same for women, gays, anyone oppressed by the bible).Religion is a disease of the mind
...or the Romans (yes they engaged in it too)...actually it was quite common.
Another anti-historical guest....sigh.....
FYI BRIAN - Those "slaves" that are referenced were the HEBREW SLAVES held in captivity by Pharoah...you left that little nugget out!!
The Bible doesn't legitimate slavery.
God continues to reveal to us the truth. But is the stance toward homosexuality - not homosexuals - something that should change? Not sure of that.
What in God's name is this man talking about. No homosexuality in the ancient world? Has he ever heard of the ancient Greeks?
Brian Lehrer immediately speaks as if the Bible is only written by a person, not God.
Right, inspired and in context. And the Church interprets them authoritatively for us.
As I have stated many times in the past, I do not believe that "marriage" should be a state or secular function at all. Only civil unions for legal purposes. "Marriage" should be considered a vow to God made before a religious institution, not a term conferred to some secular civil legal arrangement.
I could use a show on 'What is marriage?' (with it's history). Since the legalization of virtually every kind of relation, the message of why marriage exists is lost to me.
ask this guy about Jesus having a wife and wanting either her or his mother (a woman named mary) to be his disciple.
The big news on marriage in the last 24 hours — evidentiary hints that Jesus might have been married:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/us/historian-says-piece-of-papyrus-refers-to-jesus-wife.html?pagewanted=all
Sheldon from Brooklyn, Almost as fantastic as some messiah claiming that although sitting in a pew for 20 years he never hear 20 years of anti-American rants spewing from the pulpit or a group claiming it is a Religion of Peace while beheading people it disagrees with.
Well, they happen and they don't happen.
They don't happen, because the revelation of God was complete with Jesus Christ.
They do happen because miracles still occur, of course. Every Mass is one example. Also see the miracles used in the canonization of recent saints. The apparitions of Mary, also. More large scale, the continued existence of the Catholic Church is an ongoing act of God.
But we get far afield.
Well Ed, this is the same book that says there was an immaculate conception, talking burning bushes and serpents, men parting seas, food falling from the sky, guys walking on water - things that for some reason, no longer happen.
This segment highlights why the average American is tired of these issues. there is never enough given, the plan is to push for one thing, when you really are looking to get something else. I dont care if someone is gay or not, but now we have an alphabet soup of peoples sexual choices all looking for "rights" and recognition. Makes the average person yearn for the days of the closet.
With due respect, a bit of a stretch, wouldn't you say?
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