Caitlin Moran, London Times columnist and the author of How To Be a Woman, talks about her take on feminism and the splash her book made in the UK.
I picked up the book in the store and read the first two chapters, and I can't wait to finish it. I have to say, her name caught my eye first, but she's clever and I love what she has to say. I guess I knew I was a feminist the very first time I heard about women not being able to do what they wanted with their bodies (e.g. abortion) and thought, "That's dumb. It's their choice, not someone else's."
Mormons have a different understanding of the Trinity, so different that the Vatican had to decide that their Baptism wasn't valid. I think, but I could be wrong, that one thing is that they overstress the separateness of the members of the Trinity, as if they were three separate Gods, which they are not.
Women can have it all - if they have God. As is the old saying, everything belongs to God, God is my friend and gives everything to me, so I have everything, in God.
Wow,..michael b and j garbuz...you guys need to talk, you both have had similar experiences. I am sorry that those things happened to you both.
MichaelB, I missed your recent post due to a delay in my browser. I'm so sorry about your experience.
Jeez, MichaelB---did you ever think that maybe women just dislike *you*? Try being nicer. And maybe dealing with that anger. Things might change.
thatgirl from manhattan, yes, of course I've had trouble with women, who think that they and they alone have the right to define the boundaries and rules. Plus all the little hypocrisies of everyday life.
Plus, I have an ex wife who has done everything she can over the lives of my two teenage boys to keep me out of their lives and to alienate them from me, all to terrible result of their emotional lives. And I found a legal system and so-called "professional" helping tier/class that enabled her.
I've heard the discussions about how much men help in the household dozens and dozens of times over years, but not ONCE have I EVER heard anyone even mention what men do in their families that women almost never participate in.
I took care of the house, the cars, the finances, etc. You ever go up on the roof to clean the rain gutters out? You ever replace the circulating motor on the boiler of the house? You ever replace a water pump on a car? And millions of men do that sort of thing and never seem to get any credit.
Other than that, you're right. Men are the greedy, evil monsters and you ladies are just dainty little angels and princesses.
Why, why do you ask?
michael b - how you can speak for women, and why any of them reject the term "feminism," is baffling. is there a chromosomal explanation for this, perhaps?
i can understand how young women today reject it, yet adhere to its tenets (which are widely defined, btw), because they're afraid of using a term they believe is threatening to their male counterparts. they've been taught that's it's a term that challenges the authority of men around them, when it really doesn't. defending oneself against it, while claiming all the benefit, it just so much wasted energy.
karen from Astoria, the reason that many women reject the term is that a group of people, mostly women co-opted the term and insisted that they would define it. And inherent in that definition and often explicitly so, was an overt hostility to men.
Many women felt that this definition -- designed to fit an agenda with all sorts of cliche'd political baggage associated with it, and very narrow in its perspective, just didn't agree with their own life experiences.
Hence the years-long rejection of biology -- women bearing children -- and many other aspects of women's lives, because it didn't "fit" the feminist message.
Caller Keith Whaaa? also you could never be a "feminist" you do NOT have a vagina. "can I use that word"
I don't think feminism began in the 20th century. Henrik Ibsen's The Doll House written in 1879, was definitely a comment on feminism.
I think Ms. Moran is on-point. I don't think women needed feminism to be mothers or do home economics, this is the defined role. No one is asking women to give this up. Women needed feminism to be able to enjoy careers in science, engineering, medicine, law, police work, fire fighters and so on, that were all dominated by men. Not to mention, women needed to obtain the right to vote, right to own land, get a divorce, and be independent of men and the institutionalized dependency that overwhelmingly treated women as second class citizens. There is always a push-back from men in positions of power to remove women who are on equal footing. Women in similar positions are self-defeating often times and won't stand up or demand equal treatment and support other women as much as they should. For example, men in positions of power will go out of their way to defend poor behavior by other men, for example, sandusky or the various scandals in athletics etc... these are all examples of lack of feminism and continued skewed dominance and mysticism of male power.
Ever notice how often "I'm not a feminist" is followed by "but..."?
I've been a feminist (or I've known I was one) since a permission slip I brought home from school said, "Fill out this form and have your child bring it to school with him." I told my mom, "They gave me the wrong one--this is for a boy!" She said, "No, 'him' means 'him or her,' & I said, "No, it doesn't!"
Men put up with women because they want children, and cannot have them by themselves. Women put up with men, because they need some help when the kids are still small.
There has been a gender war since Adam and Eve, and sometimes one gender got the upper hand, and sometimes the other.
It's just a power struggle, and nothing more. Men want families, which is why they put up with it. But feminism is anti-family but its inherent nature, and men are just drones to do their bidding.
Something better had to come along/.
michael b - had some trouble with the wimmens, have you?
Is there a word for what the nurse is describing? Liberation for men, too, from gender-based expectations?
A rock & roll background... you go off and form a band... That's right, people who know nothing about music, never played, can't read music decide to "form a band" because they are too arrogant to acknowledge how little prepared they are to make music. They are of course prepared to make "noise" and become popular, but that's not the same thing is it?
And that remark is very relevant to everything else Ms. Moran is saying.
thatgirl from manhattan, have you ever given a nanosecond's thought to the "choice" that men have? I'll bet you don't have any idea of what I am referring to...
goodness--all these people, particularly women, SO afraid of a simple word. define your beliefs as you like, but stop assigning "feminism" such cryptonite-like status. that one would fear it pays truth to the need to further evolve oneself.
FUVA...I was going to say something similar as well but, I thought I would keep it light for a change. I was thinking...this is a white woman rebellion!
i want to talk about the meta - why is feminism a dirty word?! women don't want to cop to being one, some women, like Ann Coulter, as Brian mentioned, fight against them. Even Louis CK said feminists don't have a sense of humor on the daily show the other night, and in this small comment section, it's a dirty label.
I am a woman, but except in certain limited circumstances I usually present myself as a person. The only way to make it abundantly clear to men - and other women - that women are at least as competent as men, or plain old competent as people, is just to get out there and be a competent person.
Anyone who wants to discriminate against women obviously has a fear that he'll be outgunned.
This analysis both applies to and ignores race.
zeke, darling--the real crisis is that you subscribe to the now-vogue "men are under siege" theory.
with 28 states now limiting women's choice, only a small percentage of representation in elected government and a consistent disparity in income between women and men universally, yours is only so much whining.
What trite, half-baked, pop-culture claptrap....
Jeez, I love the way the guest generalizes about ALL societies of ALL time from her narrow perspective of her own life and the here & now.
judging the past, through today's lens and today's sensibilities and values is always a mistake and a non-starter. Describing it and comparing it is valid, but not judging. Societies are too complex.
Furthermore, the guest makes it sound as if men have been on permanent vacation throughout history whilst women slaved away in the kitchen or nursery. The truth is 99.99% of men worked their damned asses off.
And STILL do almost ALL THE REALLY DANGEROUS JOBS in the world.
Sitting around drinking lattes on their laptops and then they'll all skip home, la-di-dah!
What world does Ms.Moran live in? Because that's not the world that the overwhelming majority of people live in, even in Western societies. is is an elitist view of the world, and just NOT ACCURATE.
Men need women today the way a horse needs a rider. Women need a horse to ride, sometimes to his death.
It's time for men to grow up and become independent.
What a lightweight, hardly a poster child for modern feminism.
I remember the exact moment I became a a feminist. I was at Mass in Floral Park NY on a Sunday an the priest read a letter from the bishop that was being read in all the parishes. It condemned birth control in all forms. I as a 14 year old watched a number of young married women, some with kids in tow, some pregnant, some both, get up and walk out of church down the center aisle. I got up and followed them and never went back.
40 years later the vatican is condemning American nuns as "radical feminists" for serving the poor.
I became a feminist in 1969 when I read The Feminine Mystic. I love Caitlin!!
I grew up in a conservative, religious small town context where "Feminism" had a negative context and none of the women I knew would have considered themselves a feminist. Though I instinctively resisted gender norms and wanted to be allowed to do anything boys were allowed to do, I did not embrace the concept until college, where a professor I respected once explained in lecture why he had raised his two daughters to be feminists. Since then I have embraced the identity and encourage my women friends to do the same
I'll believe that men are equal to women when fathers get custody and domicile rights for their children 50% of the time. But as long as fathers only get custody around 17% of the time after divorce, I will not believe in this baloney about "equality." It's not about equality, but rather feminist DOMINATION.
I believe that I've always been a feminist. I was a very independent child and have always strongly stated my thoughts and opinion.
I think I officially adopted the term a few years ago when I had to scramble to the Planned Parenthood office on my lunch break to get a Plan B prescription. That experience made me so angry that I opened my eyes to see that women are still being oppressed, no matter how powerful we become.
The word "Feminist" is as outdated as the notion. Women don't need a word to describe their Independence anymore, do we?
I've heard your guest making the circuit and — and I realize how much many will dislike this comment — I think her book and this conversation are a great example of how totally tone-deaf and navel-gazing many (Western and well-to-do) women are these days when they speak of feminism. The more urgent crisis right now is a male one. It is men who are falling behind, and men whose identities are in danger. This is largely of their own making, and I'm not an anti-feminist by any means. But it's time for women to recognize that many of the goals of the sexual revolution have been achieved; I realize women lag in salaries and some opportunity, but I that's rapidly changing as well.
Talk to any teacher, or anyone who works with boys; watch any depiction of men on television or in popular culture; look at the stats of men dropping out of school and lagging behind educationally: a "real" feminist should recognize that it's time to acknowledge the crisis men are facing, and stop acting like women are alone in th eneed to struggle to establish and fight for their identity as such.
I became a feminist (before the movement came into being) as a child arguing with a teacher who said, in an exasperated tone, that I should have been a suffragette; I had to go home and ask my father what it meant. I took it as a compliment.
I do not see myself as a feminist as see the world through the vantage point of 'class' / economy first. Despite knowing and understanding the role feminism has played (and how i have benefited from it), my overriding concern will always be class. I integrate aspects of feminism in conversation and action, but do not identify w/ the title.
I have always worked in male dominated fields and am often the only woman in the room, meeting, discussion, etc. I often think that if i weren't there the room would be 100% male so I have a responsibility to simply be there and stay there. So... am a feminist by default?
A great book "the Daughters of Egalia" a society where gender roles are reversed made me understand and become a feminist, proud to say
Thank goodness for this segment, a welcome antidote to the magical-thinking, "we're going to heaven with our families" first guest on today's show. Hell yes I'm a feminist and I suggest ya don't mess with me!
Does Caitlin Moran believe men can be feminists? I always believed the definition was a person who believes women are 100% equal to men and deserve all the rights that men have.
"The whole argument as to whether or not you are a feminist...." is a construction by people with too much time on their hands, probably grew up with silver spoons in their mouths (or wherever) who raise the "issue" to stir up buzz.... to promote themselves and their wares!
This is sooooo old, and done. To. Death.
Men secretly hate women??
Are you kidding? Do you know the hostility, disdain, contempt that womein this part of the world have for men?? The little darlings....
Something that researching for yesterday's show gave me - this exists: http://www.FeministsForLife.org/ making me (even) more profeminist.
I want a new word--one that advocates liberation for both women AND men from gender-based pressures and expectations. Is there one?
how helpful is it to one's theories to have them cheapened via a sitcom? sounds like opportunism, at best.
Truly strong women, like my mother, didn't need "feminism." Radical feminism is actually BONOBO-ISM - a throwback. Like communism, it won't last. But it will cause a lot of disruption before it eventually collapses. But something radically new will have to arise, because I don't believe we can go back to patriarchy either. And we do have to have children and a stable way of raising them.
Please explain your Christian link? Because what ties all Christians together is the fact that they believe in the Holy Trinity. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One. Mormons don't believe this is what I researched. Am I wrong? Please explain
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