In the wake of the Vatican's harsh rebuke of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR), we talk with Barbara Marx Hubbard, the keynote speaker at the LCWR's recent Assembly.
If you want to understand what this lady is all about, read the book by Constance Cumbey 'The Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow', also 'False Dawn' by Catholic writer Lee Penn.
to Ed from Larchmont...you mention that the nuns don't speak of Jesus much, but of evolving. Jesus said "these things you will do and more..." - we are evolving to follow his example of what a human can be and do.
The Church is selling property - not because it's in the real estate business, but to pay the fines from the law suits of the child abuse crisis. What else can it do?
The Vatican will probably remove canonical status from the LCWR, and will also wait them out since this group of sisters isn't getting vocations and is older. The devout groups are getting vocations and are much younger.
Can't one do all this evolving while in obedience to the Church?
One telling indication is that the sisters don't speak of Jesus very much, but of evolving, etc.
I didn't mean to criticise the guest - she was just asked to speak at the convention, she's not part of it.
One thing is clear - if one were an elephant and one's toes were on fire, and was a Catholic, Brian Lehrer would ask if you had a chance to change the Church's policies on women's place in the Church. I doubt he knows the theology behind this.
To read a critic of the LCWR see:
Why is all we hear on this beating around the bush and hints as to what the issues are? What exactly are the nuns being accused of?! If it is condoning abortion, contraception, and same-sex marriage then say that and let's agree that it is against the teachings of the church once and for all and there really is no use for "invitations to dialogue" or "evolving" because we know that supporting these issues are both harmful to women and families and thus children.
Bravo to Brian and your staff. Barbara Marx Hubbard is a visionary and the perfect person to have spoken to the LCWR and I am sure they knew her counsel would be what they needed for their discernment process. The juxtoposition of the earlier conversation on Ayn Rand and the relationship between the Church and the LCWR is the right place for a conversation about the role of citizenry and the nurturing of "the collective". We will all need to count on eachother to get us through this next stage of evolution. Please invite Ms. Hubbard back on the show to hear about her visionary work which is pivotal to our survival.
Leo from Queens: The biggest problem with the Vatican is timescales. They respond to everything, but in due time: 10 years, 100 years, sometimes even more. Women are fully liberated in about half the world right now, and as observed by a prior LCWR guest (Fresh Air 17-Jul-2012) even large Catholic hospitals and schools are sometimes head by women. Is there an office for women leadership somewhere in the Vatican? I don't know but even if there isn't I would bet on one by, ha-ha, 2032.
Fabulous, brillant idea to invite someone like Mrs. Marx Hubbard to be a speaker at the convention of the LCWR - and such to get insights and opinions from a brillant outside thinker. Thank you, Brian, for alerting us to this. Gives me a spark of hope, just as Mrs. Marx Hubbard said, that the inquisition announced by the Vatican against the nuns could be a unique chance for the nuns and many catholics on the brink of despair alike, that what we used to call the Holy Spirit has not yet completely abandoned the church. This could be an interesting turning point in the history of the catholic church and the role of women in it. Women leadership standing up, firm and calm, open to dialoge but not abandoning their truth, The nuns are living the sermon of the mountain, rather than preaching it - maybe bringing their communities and some in the church into the 21 century.
John A: your request for the Vatican to put more women in Leadership will not happen. It goes against their theology. There theology is not based on Christ's teachings. Their theology is grounded on the fact that women are like children and are morally and intellectually inferior to men and therefore cannot be trusted and must be regulated and dominated by men. They are valuable though for their labors, vagina and uterus because they help to validate men. But that is the extent of their value to the wealthy MEN who run the independent FOREIGN state of the Vatican (this includes the bishops and 'leaders' of the church here in the US - their loyalty is to the corrupt Vatican state).
She sounds like a lovely woman, but, unfortunately, the nuns don't seem to be moving in the direction the Vatican is requesting them to go.
Why is Lehrer giving airtime to this kook? What the world needs is less "spirituality" and more reality. This is doubly true for Americans who seem to fall prey to this kind of flim-flam more than people in most other industrialized countries.
Did you follow that?
In Israel there was a joke in Hebrew;
"Tishlakh lanu ha'yafim; yesh lanu maspik khakhamim."
"Send us beauties; we've got enough "smarties."
You miss the point that the Vatican can discuss on it's terms.
If they love the Church, why do they criticize it and aren't obedient to it?
Why did many in the crowd boo when they decided not to follow the Vatican's desires?
Catholic Church - get more women into leadership ASAP. It's half the population (for Chrissakes).-Best review of Teilard deChardin I got was from the Priest/Scientist John Haught. Shoutouts to the guest for mentioning same.
My friends the Lasallian Christian Brothers in Jersey City were just quicket out of their house by the Archidiocese of Newark. Yes, one of "their own" because the Catholic Church is now into the real state business and since they own the properties, well they can then rent or sell to the best offerer. So no more evangelization, is about money with them.
Yet another "agnostic Jewish" dystopian pseudo-intellectual. What would the publishing industry do without them?
De Chardin was the father, but he was not approved by the Vatican.
Can Ms. Marx-Hubbard speak to whether, in her opinion, the Vatican's interest goes beyond doctrine, I believe it's key interest centers around money. Within the catholic church particular Nuns orders have large sums of money that have been donated over time, this does not sit well with the Vatican, because each nuns Order has different rules relating to the disbursement of donated money/land. I have no doubt that the Catholic hierarchy would like a. to determine the level of funds out there and b. how they can acquire it.
Ms. Hubbard is a 'first class New Age speaker'. Do you think she was an appropriate speaker for the LCWR, if they plan to act in accordance with the Vatican's requests?
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