Re Occupy & Trinity Church: You don’t need to be Christian, or even religious, to understand -and embrace- the idea that "Whatsoever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me." But many of the 1%, in blind greed and endless schemes, have forgotten this. They have closed their eyes to what the word "society" should really mean, and what it can mean. But due to Occupy Wall Street, we are finally talking less about CUTS and more about BLEEDING. Instead of demanding m-o-r-e budget cuts -to be borne by the middle class and poor- we are FINALLY focusing on the shameful bleeding that the poor and middle class has endured, for all too long. Instead of talking about even m-o-r-e cuts in the taxes of millionaires....we are now talking about fairness and justice - about an economy and a political system that is increasingly run for the rich, and by the rich. Instead of talking about LESS government, we are talking about a government that WORKS FOR ALL OF US, not just a favored few. Thank you OWS, for reminding us that people -ordinary working people- really DO matter, for helping open our eyes to what’s going on in this country, ...and why. The attempt by OWS to occupy Duarte Square (the empty lot owned by Trinity Church) is much more than a plea for sanctuary. For like Zuccotti Park, it’s an attempt to carve out a protected space, a living conscience for the city, amid the repression. A refuge...in a city where control-freaks would sweep us under the rug, and out of the way. In a city where they would pen us in, and try to permit us to death. In a city that tells us to “move on, move on”..... you don’t belong, you don’t count, you don’t have a right to be here...don’t assemble, don’t block the street, don’t trespass, don’t EXIST! They would deny us, deny our lives, deny our very futures. IF WE LET THEM. But OWS responds, both in word and in DEED: it says we’ve had ENOUGH - we BELONG, we STAND our ground, and we DO matter! This IS our land, and we want it BACK! The word OCCUPY...says it all! That’s why OWS has captured our imagination. That’s why a living breathing OCCUPIED public space is important for OWS. Like Lady Liberty’s never extinguished torch that burns in our harbor, OWS needs to have a concrete, persistent, in-your-face presence.. ..to continually remind us of what we’ve lost, of what we are, and what we can be; a protected place to affirm, illuminate, defy...and inspire. Trinity Church, with its oft-proclaimed ideals (and its huge land holdings), should look deep into its collective soul, do the right thing, and help OWS secure a sanctuary. Not merely a space of refuge, but an enclave of hope, of non-violent change, and compassion. And dare I say: a space of love - love of country, love of your fellow man and woman, love for the poor and oppressed. Can thoughtful Christians argue with these simple HUMAN values?Don’t let your hopes and dreams die: live your faith.. LIVE YOUR IDEALS!

People who know scripture and verse: Just quoting it without introductions: of yourself, of the scripture, and of the effect it had on you, will likely not work. Just the use of the archaic English is enough to turn any non-follower off. You will be viewed as speaking in tongues, an unnecessarily foreign language.

Yes it could be a tool in diagnosing a speaker to know what religion they follow, but most people don't know any fine points, and again, for most practitioners, it's not their whole identity. Just a part of a complicated persona with a host of influences. Like where you live, who your parents are, what school you went to, what you read, how well traveled you are, how mixed your friends are, how willing you are to stretch yourself, how good a listener you are, your love of learning, on and on.

Again it is unfortunate that extremists color everyone associated with any organization. If you are loud, you get heard. It takes a bit of time to really know what or about whom you speak.

Dear jane_bklyn:

"Do this (don't do that) because 'my' religion says so" is not usually 'intelligent' in anything, except as it may assist in diagnosing the speaker.

One more comment:

The vast majority of people are much more than their religion, or even, their non-religion. I don't expect you to convert to mine, but I expect to be listened to and not discounted because of which service I attend, or don't. Don't be shoe-boxed and silenced, every experience adds to a more intelligent conversation.

Well, a very quick review of these comments show at least two that make valuable points (IMO).

'Marc from Brooklyn' points out that, as many advocates know, the Bible can be read to be in support of many things. There are as many parables that read more as promotions for various good business practices than as prescriptions for the practice of charity or the "Golden Rule".

See, e.g., Luke 19: 12-26 (actually the same as Marc's parable from Mathew);
Luke 16: 1-13 (I'm a big fan of Luke, but no scholar, you can probably find an Amazon selection for "The Gospel Foundations of Hedge Fund Capitalism" for all the other parables, might even be worth a show segment).

The second, and more important, comment comes from DarkSymbolist from NYC: "Religion and politics mixing usually ends really badly and is generally a negative thing."

As a source of personal philosophy, religion and religious tracts can be valuable. As public prescriptions of or proscriptions against public behavior they always end in inquisitions.
(Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that, depending upon who is doing the "inquisiting"! - heh?)

Thanks for a great show. I especially appreciate hearing from moderate and progressive religious voices - which seem to be so invisible to the media.

In last Sunday's sermon I referred to the Social Gospel movement of the late 19th Century that sought to bring Christian values to bear on Capitalism, to humanize industry and labor. I hope the wonderful people in my diverse congregation were able to draw the connection.

Here's a thought:
If corporations are people, demanding rights as such with all the attendant benefits, what then is to stop them from being required to conduct their own moral inventory, as humans are called to do? ( if one accepts the fact that they do have morals )

Opinion regarding who the Christians are who are getting involved here, vs Tea Party Christians:
There is a groundswell among moderate Christians against Christianity being usurped by right wing organizations, as it is not truly Biblical what they teach. I think these religious persons on Wall Street are speaking for that, along with fellow Jewish congregations of the same vein.

It's interesting to see how many comments focus on how OWS cannot succeed or will fail and that collective action is not good or even potentially dangerous. How is change to be effected if not through group action? Is the prevailing view that we should do nothing to change the status quo with its inequities and increasingly evident problems. Or that somehow these issues can be resolved from the top down? Or are we afraid to venture into the unknown?

Brian read a passage from the end of Acts chapter four (verses 32-37) that describes an experiment with a kind of collectivism. Had he kept reading he would have seen how that experiment quickly failed. Acts chapter five (verses 1-11) gives the account of a couple (Ananias and Sapphira) who tried to game the system and were promply struck dead by God. The lesson is that collectivism can only work in utopia with people who never succumb to temptation and are without sin. Our society with its checks and balances, punishments and rewards is necessary since mankind either refuses or often fails to live according to God's perfect standard.

The spirit of the Wall Street marches reminds me of the French Revolution and Liberation Theology. How come if collectivism (socialism) alone is the ethic that will save us, along with liberté, égalité, fraternité, and so on, societies that indulge end end up the most secular, the most militaristic, the most repressive, brutal and least democratic? That is no accident. Marxism and its result, communism, are the epitome of that thinking. Like in France, God is not a reality in goverance. They are in fact officially atheistic. They gave us the reign of terror and communism; America gave us Washington, Adams and Jefferson and democracy.

The signs I see down on Wall Street don't advise a call to spirituality; they talk about poverty, racism, et al., all fine values, except again that alone does not a spiritual society make, nor a spiritual movement make. What then could be missing? Why, it's God. God is missing. I don't see calls for people to appeal to God. I saw that in the Tea Party.

Compare and constrast pure humanistic values with the thinking that inspired the American Revolution and the difference should be obvious. Liberation Theology types use churches and infuses the rhetoric of religion into politics in order to dupe gullible people into accepting the governance of Marxism and humanistic values.

I'm not dissing anyone's spirituality but it's kind of obvious the Left isn't particularly fond of religion. What I see is the humanists (read: NPR here too) want to minimize religion in society's affairs as much as the Right wants to limit government, even more so, considering what Marxism ends up creating and has throughout history: the most secular, the most militaristic, the most repressive, brutal and least democratic societies.

Leviticus 19 was mentioned in comments. It is worth examination as what rabbinical tradition called "the kernel of the law."
It includes some of the Ten Commandments and expands them to make clear that holiness, or righteousness, is justice. Two examples: leaving some of your harvest (wealth) for the poor (Lev. 19:9-:10); not only "love your neighbor" (Lev. 19:18) but also the "alien who resides with you" (Lev. 19:34--and note how seldom this is quoted; it's the harder part, loving those not just like you). And for daring to speak truth to power, defining righteousness as justice, there's Jeremiah 7.

It's time to take back religion -- mostly Christianity -- from the right wing who have turned the New Testament message on its head over the years. Jesus has been transformed by modern evangelicals from an advocate of the poor to a comforter of the rich -- if you're materially successful you're favored by the Lord. And bringing religious principles (moral and ethical beliefs) into politics is not the same as bringing a particular religion into politics.

You haven't 'lived' until you've seen Jesus' General and his Republican Jesus:

For example:
Republican Jesus:
""Eye of the Needle"
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle now that weve given Halliburton that multi-billion dollar needle enlargement contract."

http://www.cafepress.com/patriotboy/313212

His website:

http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/

from lucy from Brooklyn

"Please, let's keep religion out of the mix. Honor separation of church and state. Enough of magical thinking. We need to keep to the facts and stop respecting organizations that are responsible for mass murder . . . . "

Perhaps we should stick to the kind of "scientific" thinking espoused by Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Che, Pol Pot, etc, etc, etc.

Mark this: the Occupy Wall Street crap will, before too long, start shouting "kulak." It always devolves down to "you have it, and I want it, so I'll take it."

Every time.

“I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” ~ Matthew 19:23-24

My Priest, the Rev. John Merz, called in before, from the Church of the Ascension in Greenpoint. He mentioned that he wrote his views in a separate blog. Here they are, I think they a worth reading
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K6AguRi0b2n_8coOn5zsQRs0uLVCf2aTLOqBl-OWSsE/edit?hl=en_US

A friend in California sent a list of the signs being carried at Occupy Sacremento. Among them were the following:
- Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. (JFK)
- I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. (Jefferson)
- No man ought to own more property than needed for his livelihood. The rest by right belongs to the State. (Ben Franklin)
- In a time of universal deceit...telling the TRUTH is a revolutionary act. (Orwell)
- I’ll believe corporations are persons when Texas executes one.

I have not fact checked the attributed quotes (Did Ben actually say that? )

john from office,
Glad you agree. There are boatloads of kids, 16-30, who have gone atheist (even Satanic atheism) due to politicians getting votes from religion. Thanks again, Republican party!

Please invite Jim Wallis of Sojourners!

Christian Perspective, from Jim Wallis of Sojourners:

Problems in our nation and around the globe are huge, and the odds for overcoming them seem insurmountable.

The institutions and systems -- whether business or government -- meant to serve the people, seem beyond the reach of basic human kindness and completely unaccountable.

And the ever-widening gap between the very top one percent who control more wealth than the bottom 99 percent is a recipe for disastrous social instability and unrest.

The new movement called Occupy Wall Street now has spread across the country, from the very seats of our political and financial power and our largest cities, to suburbs and small towns. In some communities small groups of a few dozen have formed, and in some cities thousands have gathered.

In each instance, no matter the size, people’s frustrations, hurts, and feelings of being betrayed by our nation’s politicians and economic leaders are clear. They want to be heard.

We will likely see images and hear things from Occupy Wall Street demonstrators that will offend us and some that will inspire.

We’ll hear demands that we agree with and some that we don’t.

And that’s OK.

The Occupy Wall Street protests make some people nervous, while others scratch their heads, and more than a few grab their sleeping bags and join in.

There is a lot of speculation as to who the "Occupiers" are and what they might accomplish. There is much I still don’t know about the movement, but undeniably it has caught the imagination of a generation -- and that matters.

Here are a few things I do know about the Occupy Wall Street protesters:

When they stand with the poor, they stand with Jesus.

When they stand with the hungry, they stand with Jesus.

When they stand for those without a job or a home, they stand with Jesus.

When they are peaceful, nonviolent, and love their neighbors (even the ones they don’t agree with and who don’t agree with them), they are walking as Jesus walked.

When they talk about holding banks and corporations accountable, they sound like Jesus and the biblical prophets before him, who all spoke about holding the wealthy and powerful accountable.

Pray for those out on the streets.

Think of ways that you or your church can be Jesus to them.
###

Hey, Sammy,

I'm a Jew and don't care what the Quran says, just like you don't care what my Hebrew Bible says! No offense.

The Hebrew proscription against taking interest is meant to help the poor get a sabbath meal, not to lend someone money to buy a house without a down payment even! The Hebrew proscription against taking interest from a friend or poor member of the community was EXPANDED by Christianity and Islam to ban all interest, which was ridiculous. It is why the Muslim world fell behind the West. You can't do any business without a reasonable return on risk!

I suppose with my cultural competitors quoting Christian texts to justify their positions to retard social progress in hopes of establishing a theocracy in the United States, I'm just not all the interested in hearing people I might agree with justify themselves with similar cherry-picked biblical quotations.

Let's stick to rational, reason based rhetoric to describe social justice and leave scriptural instruction to Sunday school.

I'm sure many Wall St workers are Christian and Jewish and probably don't feel that they are "evil" or not in accordance with their religious beliefs as they interpret it. The vast majority of Christians, don't really follow the lifestyle example set by Christ, not by a long-shot, the world would be a very different place if they did.

Picking out Biblical quotes is the most boring form of public debate ever, it's like quoting poetry at each other because; it is so open to interpretation as demonstrated by the fractious sects of Christianity. Hey, why not quote the Quran or the Bhagavad-Gita while we’re at it?

Honestly, we'd be better off citing Star Trek episodes as evidence than any religious texts.

You could do a whole segment on the basics of charity and justice.

From Wikipedia and Judaism 101 online:

Tzedakah or Ṣ'daqah in Classical Hebrew (Hebrew: צדקה‎; Arabic: صدقة‎) is a Hebrew word commonly translated as charity, though it is based on the Hebrew word (צדק, tzadik) meaning righteousness, fairness or justice.

For more, see:

http://www.nishma.org/articles/update/updatedec90-essence.htm

Please, let's keep religion out of the mix. Honor separation of church and state. Enough of magical thinking. We need to keep to the facts and stop respecting organizations that are responsible for mass murder, repression of women and minorities.
Respect humans instead of ideology.

There is no way Jesus would have been a capitalist of any sort. Period.

A cab driver recently said to me that the wealthy bankers were all Jewish. Be very careful. Anti-Semitism and christianizing this movement are not so far apart. Religion has always an us-them aspect.There has to be a way to support what is best in ourselves without falling into traps as above.

The haftarah read at the Yom Kippur morning service (Isaiah 57:14-58:14) is directly relevant: "3 "Why, when we fasted, did You not see?
When we starved our bodies, did You pay no heed?"
Because on your fast day
You see to your business
And oppress all your laborers!
4 Because you fast in strife and contention,
And you strike with a wicked fist!
your fasting today is not such
As to make your voice heard on high.
5 Is such the fast I desire,
A day for men to starve their bodies?
Is it bowing the head like a bulrush
And lying in sackcloth and ashes?
Do you call that a fast,
A day when the Lord is favorable?
6 No, this is the fast I desire:
To unlock the fetters of wickedness,
And untie the cords of the yoke
To let the oppressed go free;
To break off every yoke.
7 It is to share your bread with the hungry,
And to take the wretched poor into your home;
When you see the naked, to clothe him,
And not to ignore your own kin.

8 Then shall your light burst through like the dawn
And your healing spring up quickly;
Your Vindicator shall march before you,
The Presence of the Lord shall be your rear guard.
9 Then, when you call, the Lord will answer;
When you cry, He will say: Here I am.
If you banish the yoke from your midst,
The menacing hand and evil speech,
10 And you offer your compassion to the hungry
And satisfy the famished creature —
The shall your light shine in darkness,
And your gloom shall be like noonday."

the main problem is here is income inequality and concentration of wealth ...

To john from office: There is a long tradition of religion and spirituality informing progressive politics in this country - the Civil Rights Movement. Though I am not a Christian, or even religious, I have enormous respect for what the black American church was able to accomplish for the freedom movement in this country (and the world). Mixing religion and politics does not always lead to authoritarianism. Sometimes folks need religion to help them establish their underlying spiritual and moral values toward loving their fellow man, and not getting over on them.

Please, let's keep religion out of the mix. Honor separation of church and state. Enough of magical thinking. We need to keep to the facts and stop respecting organizations that are responsible for mass murder, repression of women and minorities.
Respect humans instead of ideology.

Oh, women rabbis! Just what we needed!
Jeez!

There might be a logo of Jesus overturning the tables of the money changers at the temple

I have been complaining about the falsifying of the Christian message by the so-called religious right for years. If you look at Jesus' words and actions as presented in the Bible, you have to admit that he would have been called a socialist and progressive today. The true message of Christianity is to love and care for one another (everyone, not just those with whom we agree or identify), not to act according to selfishness, fear, and greed. Jesus even "revised" the ten commandments down to two: love God above all else and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Of course Jesus belongs in the OWS movement. It is appropriate for those who use religion to help them live good lives to correct the misdirection of those who use religion to create strife.

@ John A

It's not about removing religion "from all life"...it's about removing it from politics.

Big difference.

here are some intersting quotes from the Holy Quran that relates to economic fairness and Justice and against usury:
"hose who charge usury are in the same position as those controlled by the devil's influence. This is because they claim that usury is the same as commerce. However, God permits commerce, and prohibits usury. Thus, whoever heeds this commandment from his Lord, and refrains from usury, he may keep his past earnings, and his judgment rests with God. As for those who persist in usury, they incur Hell, wherein they abide forever (Al-Baqarah 2:275)
God condemns usury, and blesses charities.God dislikes every disbeliever, guilty. Lo! those who believe and do good works and establish worship and pay the poor-due, their reward is with their Lord and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. O you who believe, you shall observe God and refrain from all kinds of usury, if you are believers. If you do not, then expect a war from God and His messenger. But if you repent, you may keep your capitals, without inflicting injustice, or incurring injustice. If the debtor is unable to pay, wait for a better time. If you give up the loan as a charity, it would be better for you, if you only knew. (Al-Baqarah 2:276-280)
O you who believe, you shall not take usury, compounded over and over. Observe God, that you may succeed. (Al-'Imran 3:130)
And for practicing usury, which was forbidden, and for consuming the people's money illicitly. We have prepared for the disbelievers among them painful retribution. (Al-Nisa 4:161)
The usury that is practiced to increase some people's wealth, does not gain anything at God. But if people give to charity, seeking God's pleasure, these are the ones who receive their reward many fold. (Ar-Rum 30:39)

There might be a logo of Jesus overturning the tables of the money changers at the temple

"For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 25:14-30 KJV

In other words, being lazy and stupid is no excuse for not working, and if you don't work, then there's no need for you.

john from office,
Removing religion from all life leads to soviet Russia
-- Is what they used to say in the 60s and 70s --.

To Becky

The Hebrew Bible, or "Old Testament" is pretty clear. It essentially states that (1) we must put God above Mammon; (2) That we must have honest weights and measures; (3) that the poor must not be oppressed;(4) that charity = justice; (5) and that we are to pursue justice constantly.

It does not however say that the rich have no chance of getting into heaven, or that the government must redistribute wealth through taxation. Everyone who has more than what they need should help those have no hope to the extent they can.

I don't mind the religious joining in principle. This country is hyper-religious so religion is probably a good tool in the arsenal, so to speak, to get the message across.

However, it makes me very hesitant that religion will co opt the movement in it's infancy. Religion and politics mixing usually ends really badly and is generally a negative thing. This worries me...

All of Goldman Sachs is atoning in Greenich and the Hamptons. Boo Hoo.

Brian, why don't you tell us what the Torah or the Hebrew Bible has to say on the matter? I am familiar with the new testament, thanks.

Wow this is scary. Mixing politics and religiou leads to IRAN. Look how great it is with the far right. You dont want to get GOD in the mix, Religion makes people kill each other, look at Eygpt this morning.

Please ask some of these people who feel a calling to participate in Occupy Wall Street where they've been for the past few years during which the Republicans have hijacked the government and where they were for the 8 years of the Bush-Cheney administration.

I've covering the events at Liberty Plaza over the past few weeks for a documentary film.
In a good part of the interviews I've conducted
people are calling for not only more equality in income, calling Wall Streeters to task among things. They're looking for a change in consciousness, for people to develop real empathy and humility. This represents a spiritual change not necessarily a political one. So perhaps a spiritual leader will emerge to lead, hopefully not born of martyrdom but more will be revealed.
Thanks!

Well, the Hebrew Bible, the Torah, merely states we should not put Mammon above God. That God is in first place. The Christian Bible appears to have gone a step further, and the Muslim even furhter yet!

I say, moderation and reason in all things,including religion.

What about "survival of the fittest" matches "Love thy neighbor"? Nothing. Neo-Darwinianism of the late 20th century has been all about the former and its effect is all over modern Capitalism.

The devils must be hapoy that they finalky made wall st into the wall of lamentations..that tauro they have outside is their god.

I organized the Kol Nidre service at Occupy Wall Street that drew roughly 1000 participants. And I have a sukkah going up there this week! You can read all about it at http://twitter.com/occupyjudaism.

My participation in the Kol Nidre service held at Occupy Wall Street got my otherwise right-leaning Jewish grandparents behind the movement.

Columbia associate professor of religion Courtney Bender wrote a recent blog post/article on this exact topic:

http://uscmediareligion.org/theScoop/453/Preoccupations-Spirituality-and-Occupy-Wall-Street-Movement

"No one can serve 2 masters...No one can serve both God and money."
Hopefully the movement won't be co-opted by the evangelical movement.

I am a rabbi in New Jersey; I spoke about Economic Justice on Yom Kippur, using Biblical texts read on this sacred day to argue for the need for economic reforms in America. I wondered aloud if we will begin calling this time period in America the "American Autumn" as more and more Americans join the protests around the country. I argued that our political leaders have let us down, caring more about gaining political advantage and reelection than the American people. Jewish tradition teaches us to protect the most vulnerable in our society. Lev. 19 also emphasizes honesty in business. Too many bankers and brokers broke laws, acted immorally and recklessly and thrust millions into unemployment, foreclosure, losing access to medical care and diginity. Our government has not prosecuted these criminials, nor have they worked together to address our nation's economic recession. I urged my congregation to join protests and add their voices to the thousands of Reform Jews by following the issue on and joining with the Relgious Action Center of Reform Judaism (RAC.org) to speak truth to power, to bring the prophetic wisdom of the ages to our ailing society.

Occupy Wall Street is responding both to the injustice of current economics for these young people as well as looking to the future. A comparison with the Tea Party is unfair because of the deep pockets of the David & Charles Koch who are now known to have funded it. I've been to Zuccotti Park twice, each time bringing food and once with a delegation of Japanese anti-nuclear activists who were welcomed with enthusiasm.

OWS is a harbinger of hope our nation needs.

The rage expressed against the symbolic target of "Wall Street" will have a material effect if the real source of this disastrous change in our society now taking place is discussed.

I have quite strong evidence that the real culprit is our own misunderstanding of our self-interests. It's a mistake to ask our government and finance institutions to compound their investment of our savings till the economy stops responding, and fails under the strain.

That was actually also the opinion of JM Keynes, expressed in the concluding chapter of his growth theory, chapter 10 of The General Theory. He foresaw this time when growth would becomes unprofitable for a growth economy as a whole, and could only be stabilized by those with excess capital spending it. http://www.synapse9.com/signals/2011/09/18/keynes-saw-through-his-fears-by-facing-them/

That's the level of insight we need to get closer to the bottom of this and have a real effect.