New York Times columnist Gail Collins offers her bemused take on state and national politics and then she and Lisa Belkin of Motherlode talk about what’s changed for women and men since the women's movement of the 1960’s.
Gail Collins’ most recent book is When Everything Changed: The Amazing Journey of American Women from 1960 to the Present. Lisa Belkin’s article "Judging Women" is in this week’s New York Times Magazine.
Actress Meryl Streep gave a commencement speech this year at Barnard Collage, during which she addressed what she saw as a fundamental change in men and their positive evolution as a group. You can watch the speech here:
Comments [15]
Young men in the late 60's were subject to conscripted military service. I volunteered, served 3 years active and 18 years in the Reserve, including two years as a Commanding Officer. Total 21.
As a civilian I would travel to Asia or Europe, spend weeks awake after hours (jet lag or in late night meetings and dinners), fly back home Friday, attend weekend drills, and expend uncompensated hours planning and doing paperwork. I did it for the drill pay, which we needed to make ends meet, and the bene's (including wife's eventual survival annuities). A worthwhile way to safeguard my family and serve my country.
Two daughters received private secondary educations in NYC and attended selective universities (previously all male), qualified professionally in their own rights (along with their mother, who returned to grad school when they left home), married committed young executives, had children (total 7), and are staying home with their kids until the kids all reach school age.
Our sons in law are now partly judged on the share of housework they do, and I am judged, retrospectively, on the share of housework I supposedly avoided. (Grandma and I now live apart, so we are 50-50 after all).
I ask Ms. Collins and Ms. Belkin: have you any idea what you are talking about?
I am heartened by the comments here. Frankly, I found Lisa Belkin's statements on the BL Show this morning so offensive that I reread her original article and follow-up blog post and felt compelled to comment at the NYT website -- to which I received a rather dismissive response from Belkin claiming that I misunderstood her take on Kagan's 'single and childless state.'
With all due respect, I did listened with both ears and I did not misunderstand Belkin's stance. I am a feminist in my 40s and I don't know if Belkin is simply looking to push buttons or actually open up a dialogue. As a woman in 2010, I appreciate that I do not need a man or a child to determine my worth. Nor do I need to be particularly career-driven to choose not to have children. Belkin would have us believe that the "life equation" for women is as follows: do I want to put my career on hold in order to raise a family or do I want to pursue my career and forget about having children? That's it. Pretty limited math if you ask me. Either stand by your statements or don't make them in the first place. Claiming your listeners and readers didn't get your point perhaps suggests that the point was not well-made.
I am heartened by the comments here. Frankly, I found Lisa Belkin's statements on the BL Show this morning so offensive that I reread her original article and follow-up blog post and felt compelled to comment at the NYT website -- to which I received a rather dismissive response from Belkin claiming that I misunderstood her take on Kagan's 'single and childless state.'
With all due respect, I did listened with both ears and I did not misunderstand Belkin's stance. I am a feminist in my 40s and I don't know if Belkin is simply looking to push buttons or actually open up a dialogue. As a woman in 2010, I appreciate that I do not need a man or a child to determine my worth. Nor do I need to be particularly career-driven to choose not to have children. Belkin would have us believe that the "life equation" for women is as follows: do I want to put my career on hold in order to raise a family or do I want to pursue my career and forget about having children? That's it. Pretty limited math if you ask me. Either stand by your statements or don't make them in the first place. Claiming your listeners and readers didn't get your point perhaps suggests that the point was not well-made.
Suggestion for another segment -
Since Barnard College came up. Barnard was against Columbia College going coed; it assumed Barnard would no longer attract the same high quality applicants - they would apply to Columbia College.
Other women's colleges had other strategies, including remaining single sex.
How has it worked out for them?
I considered applying to Vassar in the 1970s, but did not. My son applied to Vassar and Skidmore and is going to Sarah Lawrence. When I ask him about going to a majority women's college, he says it will reflect well on him, since women are the smartest students.
The globalized economy as well as the rise of the "pink collar" sector (read: service-oriented), have led to a restructuring of the economy where women are not only more valued, but are pressed into the work force so that families can survive.
Much of this restructuring has to do with technological advances as much as well as the development of human capital, both of which must be acknowledged.
I'm not sure that gender symmetry is the same as gender equality, so I get frustrated by indices of equality that track similarities in behavior and roles between men and women. It seems to me an artificial measurement of something that in reality is much trickier. All I want as a feminist is freedom to be in the world as I see fit and to have my own self-direction respected as an expression of my autonomy. I've felt alienated from my own desires to have a child, be a mother, and make a home because it was not "acceptable" for a woman of my education and social class. I feel that the earlier feminist generation represented by Gail and Lisa often issues dictates to younger women about how they should behave and what they should want, and this is deeply disappointing as it seems like yet another dictatorial voice replacing older ones (specifically male or patriarchal ones) about how women should act.
Belkin and Collins sound like they just stepped off the screen of "Sex and the City". They're speaking of upper middle class and wealthy white women like themselves. The conditions are very different for the lower middle class and poor and for people of color.
Not surprising that Belkin and Collins don't get this -- the Times has ignored any but rich white folks for at least 30 years.
The difference, generationally, is that we can choose NOT to marry, and NOT to have children. I know that Lisa Belkin represents the contingent that says that a woman's worth is based baring children, but there really won't be equality unless her constituency leaves the rest of us alone to live our lives.
i'm half listening, i keep hearing "child-less" and want to correct it to "child-free"...i take offense to the "less", it's not always a choice and i don't like the implication that i am lacking something.
I was disgusted by Lisa Belkin's NYTs article on Elena Kagan's nomination. She had the nerve to lable someone as a feminist who said "I wish she were a mother" and that her being childless "Sends the wrong message". Since when should the appointment of a Supreme Court Justice should be about sending a message? The article suggest that Antonin Scalia, with 10 or so kids, has never dried tears or helped with homework. I know a female attny of O'Connor's/Bader's generation who yes, had 3 kids, but she was a HORRID mother, and left three of the most messed up kids I know. Baring a child doesn't mean you are more loving or more empathetic. Disgusting.
Should we have a female Supreme Court Justice who doesn't cross her legs when seated? I just read this morning on ANSA.it the italian news agency that some journalist--Pulitzer winner no less--wrote an article recently stating that Dr Kagan does not cross her legs when she is seated! In fact she sits with her legs open. Soooo this is journalism?! The article in ANSA was kind of poking fun at how Americans are obsessed with such things... silly things when you can't find anything important to write about.
What can possibly change in New York State as long as we have one of the most systematically corrupt state legislatures in the country?!
The other day, Cuomo began to criticize the self-serving bigot Sheldon Silver and then stopped himself.
Since elected officials won't do anything to check the insanity of their fellows, it's up to us to vote the corrupt idiots out -- all of them.
I wish she'd stop saying "Poor Ravitch"! What's with the sympathy for Ravitch?
Al DelBello, who was Westchester County Exec, was the Cuomo Lt. Gov. who quit to join Allied-Signal. You ought to have him on. Probably made millions.
The segment has just started, but I'm being proactive. Because this segment will touch, however tangentially, on the Pill, we can assume that Ed from Larchmont will write in something about the dangers/evils of artificial contraception. Which will result in other people writing in about how "natural family planning" is Rhythm, and of course doesn't work. You're both wrong. For those who are interested, there are effective forms of natural fertility management which do not have to be taught or learned in a religious context. In other words, you can have your cake and condoms too. The most effective and well-researched of these methods is sympto-thermal Fertility Awareness. Such methods are endorsed by organizations ranging from WHO to Planned Parenthood. For more information, look up Fertility Awareness online and/or check out book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. I realize that this has nothing to do with the segment as aired thus far. But that never seems to stop anyone else, and I wanted to prevent, or at least ameliorate, the kind of ignorance-laden exchanges that have taken place in other show blogs, such as the Lopate and Takeaway segments re the 50th anniversary of the Pill. Carry on.
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