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22-voter

my point is that renters should be taxed by local authorities and they're currently not.

"heating oil, the maintenance, the taxes, the marketing of empty units, etc. " is not the same as or equivalent to contributing the $12,000-$17000 it costs to educate each child; paying the pensions of city/muni workers; patching roads; and funding the other muni expenses.

Ideally, munis would make my argument and force rents lower in order to enable renters to pay their share of local taxes without substantially increasing their rents. it might also reduce property taxes. this in the name of transparency and fairness in addition to fund-raising.

Incidentally, NJ renters do get annual tax rebates along with land owners (google nj homestead rebates).

point is renters aren't taxed.

point is that renters should pay tax that is equal in covering their expenses as much as land owners do. remember that that each school child costs the school 13-17k or more.

also, states incl nj have provided renters with an annual rebate).https://www1.state.nj.us/TYTR_Saver/jsp/common/Inquiry.jsp

in addition, you are in brooklyn, tax is low. ct and nj it's 3 or more times higher.

the point is that paying rent and paying tax are not the same, they are different. homeowners pay tax even though they pay mortgage, tax, bills, etc. why shouldn't renters cover their own @sses equally? if too poor that's what charity, welfare, vouchers, breaks etc. is for. i'm arguing for clarity and fairness.

1. nj renters DO get rebates.
https://www1.state.nj.us/TYTR_Saver/jsp/common/Inquiry.jsp

2. owners have utility, etc. bills just like renters do. one of those bills is their property tax bill. rent is rent tax is tax.

rent does not come close to covering tax or burden in many towns especially since housing "values" and mortgages skyrocketed over the past decade.

the only profitable strategy for landlords who did not already own their properties is: subdivide the house, rent out the cubicles to immigrant families (with kids in school), and simultaneously gut the place, then foreclose &move back "home."

I don't know what the name for this is but it would be a relief on many fronts, as pointed out above, if tentants paid tax that covered at least some portion of the 13k per child school costs alone.

keep in mind that in nj and ct a middle class/lower middle class home on little property is paying 10k in property tax, compared to the fraction of that paid in brooklyn on average.

Trwer,
I don’t know how you took the last line, but I honestly don’t know what your point was supposed to be. Was it that gross rent receipts do not or should not cover building operating expenses including taxes? Was it that renters should effectively be double taxed? Was it that renters should pay the tax directly and receive any potential rebates?
Keep in mind, renters do not get any tax breaks on rent paid, but owners do on mortgage interest paid, that’s life. So really, what was your point?

The figures were for NJ and the entire link is here.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/25/news/economy/income_gap/

According to a 2006 report by the Economic Policy Institute and the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, the average income of top 5% of families was $268,889 while the average income of bottom 20% of families was $20,391. (http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/25/news/economy/income_gap/) The discussion about what makes one "rich" reveals again that people are really out of touch if they believe incomes of 250K (or 500K) do not constitute wealth.
That issue aside I wonder what happened to the idea of a "rainy day" fund. When good times return and states have budget surpluses, instead of giving the funds back to the taxpayers in the form of rebates, OR instead of increasing spending, why not save/invest the surplus? Finally, NJ has to find a way eliminate the home rule nonsense which results in so much waste, inefficiency and future pension obligations.

voter 22 i was actually mulling over your reply in good faith until your last line. your friends like that?

Anon from NJ,
Property taxes do effectively go down, if not on paper then on what a property owner ultimately pays when rebates are issued. My point is that when a landlord pays less in taxes, that money does not go back to the source of the income, it goes into the pocket of the landlord. I’m not arguing whether that is right or wrong, just challenging the notion on renters not paying taxes.
(Could be wrong, but also though they could go down if a property is reassessed for less… though owners don’t like that because they feel “poorer”)

Voter:

Property taxes never go down.

Trwer,
Renters are taxed. The rent renters pay go to pay for the heating oil, the maintenance, the taxes, the marketing of empty units, etc. However, the money renters pay does not come back to them when the landlord gets a tax rebate. The rent does not go down if or when property taxes goes down. So, what’s your point?

There are only two ways to go, cut services or raise taxes.
Yes, the guest isn’t saying those two words (raise taxes) because of how they have been demonized… same reason Republicans call killing non-combatant citizens “collateral damage” or “breaking a few eggs”.
I’d like to hear him propose the alternate to raising taxes: eliminating public pensions, eliminating health insurance for public employees, no public education and no vouchers for privatized education, no Medicare Medicaid or Veterans Administration, no parks, fewer prisons, no subsidies to public transportation, no nothing for anything. Let’s see what New Yorkers can do without (good luck educating your child on the $50 your salary pays into the budget for education a year) then tax accordingly. Everything else, citizens will have save for any pay out of their own pockets.
And if you think small businesses will flourish under this model, you’re mistaken; who’s going to buy from a small business when they have to shoulder 100% the actual cost of educating their children, getting to work, retirement, and healthcare.

I didn't vote for Christie but I applaud the property tax cap. My town spends like drunken sailors and they pass it through to residents. By the time we can vote them out (everyone gets voted out), the damage is done. This is a time for austerity, even if it's mandated.

Here he goes again on the $500K millionaire! What a moron! Has he seen median house prices in Tri State Area? Does he know that college tuition is a minimum of $35K plus per year per child? It takes two professional earners to pay these costs and, no, they're not rich because there is not much left (especially after taxes).

This guy is a hack.

tax renters ?

Rich people do not pay their fair share of taxes, Millionaires pay 16% while ordinary people pay 30%. Raising their tax level to a fair rate, taxing stock trades, would easily fill the budget gap.

Rich people are not paying their fair share of taxes. Millionaires pay 16% while ordinary people pay 30%. Time to raise taxes on the rich, levy taxes on stock trades, and there would be PLENTY of revenue to balance the budgets of both states.

Gov Christie's proposal for constitutional 2.5% cap on property taxesx is typcial of his buffonery logic. If such a cap were in place now, he would not be able to today target withholding the municipalities that have surplues. They would'nt have those surplues today if such a cap were in place.

Caller Shelly made some points about too many people in prisons.
Ok, I agree with her on the waste of money in privatized prisons; however: If she believes too many people are in prisons, she should vote “no” on measures keeping sex offenders in prison past their completed sentence; measures putting any and all non violent drug addicts and dealers in prison; measures putting prostitutes and their pimps in prison… and on and on and on.
When society doesn’t want “those people” in their neighborhood, they have to go somewhere, so maybe we can send them to her neighborhood.

Well, we've already paid our NJ personal income tax increase (applied retroactively and now, I believe, the second highest in nation) and my property taxes are $24K (no, it's not a McMansion), so what else can we do?

Jon Shure is not connecting the dots. Small business owners who are overwhelmed by taxes AND experiencing a slow down in business, will lay off workers (or not expand/spend at all).

You can't keep taxing the highest earners without it having a negative impact. And, please, he's from NJ: People earning $250K are paying mortgages, college tuitions, etc., they do not have private jets and Cayman Island accounts. He's pandering to populist notions which are not accurate, and not productive.

This is an amazing segment with a guest who is really saying "Raise taxes" in every possible way except with those two simple words.

The budget crisis in NJ lead to more take over of local school districts, due to less state aid and result in a snake feeding on itself. Unless the opportunity the crisis presents to finally consoladate the over 500 local school districts over the long-standing hypocrisy of local rule proponents.

[3] Jersey Jeff
as long as the state government subsidizes local governments there is no reason for voters to call for a cut in local government. voters having been getting the best of both worlds rebates from the state and more local governments. make them pay for what they want.

Ah, yes. Mr. Shure has no "best practices" for cutting budgets. Why? Because his organization is all about EXPANDING budgets -- pretty useless in today's environment.

In good times, states spend more, in bad times they want to maintain that level and taxes go up, then in good times spending goes up more, and the cycle continues. No pet projects are special interest ever wants cuts. At some point things have to stop. NYS and NYC have levels of taxation that are brutal to normal residents. They need to cut, no more revenue increases at this point.

Jenn, Governor Christie recently announced that the state will be withholding money from schools that have budget surpluses, effectively punishing them for saving money for lean times like these.

BL
my federal tax dollars are paying for the war, would it be better if that money stayed in NY state to pay for education?

If I read between the lines of your guest's rhetoric, he is very much in favor of raising taxes to continue funding programs that are Democratic Party pet projects.

And who funds his organization?

Why do states not have a Savings Account? When times are GOOD, they should not increase spending, they should save money for when there is a big recession...ideally not invested in volatile markets.

where are state budgets good or best?

can you name some "best practices" for cutting school budgets?

Yeh, the success of corporate consolidation sure has reshaped America's Main Streets. Maybe New Jersey's dinky bergs could use a makeover too. Consolidate all the towns, strip out the local voices and issues, and turn them into one big....

hjs, when discussing local government in my state, a NJ county political leader once told me: "New Jersey and New York City have roughly 8 million people. NYC has one police commissioner, one schools chancellor and one fire commissioner. New Jersey has 566 Police Chiefs, 600 school superintendents and a few hundred paid fire chiefs."

Voters at the polls have consistently rejected consolidation - most recently, Sussex Borough and Wantage in 2009.

Talking heads love to point out the redundancy in multiple layers of government in New Jersey, but for some unexplainable reason, voters appear to prefer to pay higher property taxes rather than surrender the age-old NJ tradition of "home rule."

Cut the "technology" budgets,

DON'T cut the grass,

can the assistant superintendents,

check student addresses,

keep every teacher.

Get parents to pitch in in ways they haven't yet imagined.

Done!

christie is on the right track if he cuts property tax rebates and state aid to towns and schools by more than $1 billion. there are too many small governments in NY and NJ. these small government units waste money and are a drain on the economy. by relieving the state's burden, the problem is returned where the problem lies, too many governments. now local and county voters need to hold local office hold responsible for the efficiency of local government or pay for the extravagance of having more than 500 local governments in NJ. there is no need for a property tax cap if just act like a grown-ups and spend only what we have.

*323 of 566 towns have less than 10,000 residents.
NJ’s 615 school districts is a lot for a small state (NY 697 CT 169)
NJ has 23 “nonoperating districts,” school districts without schools , yet have staffs to schedule board meetings, record the minutes and collect tax dollars to pay tuition and transportation costs for their students. they serve only 2,172 children, a tiny fraction of the state’s 1.4 million students, they cost local taxpayers a total of more than $800,000 a year in administrative expenses, including salaries and office supplies.