wnyc.org / 93.9fm / am 820

This statistic about failures in 12 Step Programs is confusing. I understood such programs to be anonymous. How does one gather statistics on who's in and who's left? And how does a researcher maintain statistics on who might leave but remain clean and sober?

Funny that this interview fails to mention that muscle-relaxants and alcohol combined are deadly. Hmmm...

Great for eating disorders and drugs I guess.

Whether or not addiction is a disease, it is certainly a reality.

And while self-discipline, 12 step programs and just general characterological or spiritual self improvement certainly are relevant and even helpful, nothing makes the discomfort of detox-ing go away, and the process of reworking the psyche to handle in a new way the discomforts that the addiction was first adopted to reduce remains demanding at the least.

BTW I disapprove of judging the 12 steppers too harshly.

Even a 90% failure rate would be a 10% success rate, which is nothing to spurn.

An undesirable addiction (and we are in the habit of assuming that all addictions are undesirable, which may not actually be true) is a terrible thing indeed.

Skepticism is understandable but clinical trials will settle it, no? Anyone who has experienced the devastation of addiction in the family would have to agree that further exploration is urgently needed. Read Amiensen's book last night and it is pretty convincing. The guy IS an M.D. after all, has some understanding of science!

"I think 12 step programs are wonderful because it calls for abusers to take responsibility, exercise self control, and modify behavior. Not just take one drug to replace another."

They also call for the addict to place his/her faith in a "higher power"--an abdication of personal responsibility--and to forever identify as an addict, which is disempowering. Being forever an addict forever on guard against the specter of one's addiction reinforces the problem of addiction and makes the 12 step program a thin proxy-addiction at best. The guest cited the statistic that 80% of people in 12-step programs relapse, and here here we have posters praising them as sufficient. Add the high relapse rate to the identity of Addict--as potent as ever thanks to the way 12-step programs define it--into whose clutches one falls when he or she does relapse and for which 12-step programs have no response other than coaxing and bullying back into their vigilant fold, and you have a system that's practically an enabler of addiction.

If this drug works it's a very welcome development.

If there is a pill that has some great side effects - somewhere in my body I will find a symptom that requires that pill. Please don't let these snake oil salesmen dope you up. Drug free is wonderful.

voter
everyone in America IS sick!

but beyond that addiction is a result of the impairment of neurochemical processes, not just a lack of self control.
if it's something that could be controlled (ie just one drink) it's not addiction. pedophiles are sick also but because there is no cure as of yet they have to be locked up or watched for the rest of their lives.

Oh Robots, I wasn’t saying or implying that drugs, alcohol, cigarettes (sex, shopping, porn, chocolate, developing suburbia, wasting fossil fuels, and PB&J (Mmmm, PB&J… SUGAR!)) aren’t addictive, I was criticizing the behavior as a disease. Take anorexia for example, we don’t say they’re addicted to starvation or bulimics are addicted to vomiting, they have some sort of body dysmorphic disorder. The guest basically said his addiction was a coping mechanism for depression. In these cases the action was brought on by an actual disease… Saying “I just can’t help myself” isn’t acceptable in any other area of life where an action or substances provides mood altering effects—in cases of pedophilia, serial murderers/rapists, spouse abusers we demand people take full responsibility for their actions and don’t coddle them for being sick and with things like overeating, promiscuous sex, and the BeDazzler we tell people to use self control—so why is it “ok” for the big three.
We’re a nation of little to no self control, so if addiction is a drug, everyone in America is sick.
(and yes, I know 12 steps have extraordinary failure rates, but I’m friends with some of the successes and in order for a 12 step to work, the person has to be straight with themselves and own up to it. I think that’s preferable to “Pharma will make it all better”)

I'm a little skeptical about this, having had a personal experience.

My stepfather, a recovering alcoholic in a relapse, began taking my mother's baclofen (prescribed for her MS), not to stop drinking, but as another kind of intoxicant / relaxant. He became addicted to it or at least dependent on it and ended up in rehab for a combination of the alcohol and prescription. I believe addiction is a disease, but it is also very psychological, and curing a drug addiction with another drug doesn't seem to make sense to me as a long term solution. I realize that my experience may be isolated and I am for more research into this issue, but don't think people should go singing the praises of this drug just yet.

Doctors take pills, prescribe medicatons while ordinary citizens take responsibility for their actions when the pills don't work. Even doctors have to try a little harder.
Many many people have benefited from 12 step programs. Yes abstinence can be a bummer, but you replace the booze and drugs and most importantly the attitude and excuses with living life responsibily.

Voter from the Best Borough: If you do any research on addiction you will find there is adequate evidence that addiction can be disease. The word disease may not have the meaning you think it does. I found it hard to accept addiction as disease but after some research I changed my mind. We're all wired differently. Addiction can be beyond the control of the addicted. If addictions weren't disease then doctors wouldn't accept them as such and 12 step programs wouldn't have such high failure rates.

I’m sorry but this “my addiction is a disease” line seems like nothing more than a reason for people not to take responsibility for their actions. Stop coddling people.
I think 12 step programs are wonderful because it calls for abusers to take responsibility, exercise self control, and modify behavior. Not just take one drug to replace another.
Cancer, OCD, HIV, and clinical depression are diseases… this just seems like an easy out.

How long has he been on the wagon for?

Has there been any further research into using this drug to cure addiction? And could it be used to cure things besides alcoholism like food addiction, or to stop smoking?

what about oil addiction. can this be used to cure that?