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Bruce - your post is quite silly in so many ways. HEre are the top 2.

1. I don't worship Israel

2. One needn't worhsip Israel, to recognize the reality and truth that one or more isolated incident by unknown assailant in Israel does not equal systemic intolerance and oppression and in many cases state-sponsored torture of LBTQ, women and other minorities in many Arab/Muslim countries.

You musta missed the Gay bashing incidents that recently occurred in Israel.
I got another one for you to shed some more light on your state worrship.
In 1998, Israeli medical authorities removed body organs from a Scottish tourist, Alistair Sinclair, who died under mysterious circumstances inside Ben Gurion Airport.Israeli "investigation"claimed he hung himself,and shipped body to Scotland. Sinclair’s family sued Israeli authorities upon finding that their son’s heart and other organs were missing.After autopsy was performed,a bone in the neck that would show hanging as reason for death was also missing. According to one report, a replacement heart and organs were sent to his mother, who didn’t believe that these were her son’s.
Palestinians have been complaining for years that the Israel army has been returning the bodies of young Palestians it had killed stitched up with organs missing and cavities filled with bandages/garbage to families.Israel is well known for its harsh and cruel treatment of Palestinians. Hence, the notion of Israeli authorities extricating organs from the bodies of Palestinians for transplant or sale is credible.Swedish weekly Aftonbladet,Donald Bostrom reaserched this claim.
The report featured a picture of one Palestinian victim, with a large scar running from chin to abdomen.
The report also linked the revelations with the recent human organ trafficking scandal in New Jersey involving Israeli and American rabbis.

There is no where more hospitable to GLBTQ in the Middle East than in Israel. I know from personal experience. The treatment of gays and lesbians in the Muslim/Arab world is atrocious. In Iran, where according to Ahmadinjad, the little Hitler of Tehran, there are no gays - gay teens have frequently been hung in public. Comparing Israel's robust human rights for gays and lesbians of all religions to the oppression and intolerance that is routine in the Arab/Muslim world is a losing arguemnt, Bruce. Better quit while you're behind, lol.

Bruce,

Gays are treated as equal in Israel and serve in the military equally. Obama won't allow gays and lesbians to serve in the military because Obama is a bigot.

No name calling Brucey?

#58 shares:"God tells Obama that gays and lesbians have fewer human rights then others and Obama makes that Democratic policy"???

Oh Yeah? what are the views of gays and lesbians in the "right of center"crowd?
Better yet do recent attacks on Gays in Israel bother you any???????

WNYC Moderator: A comment I made refuting the claim that I’ve accused another poster of wanting to kill 3000 women and children as “wild accusations” was removed. If me refuting a blatant and easily exposed lie is over the line for WNYC, surely putting words in the mouths of others is over the line as well. Especially inflammatory language such as killing women and children and “mass murder”. Moderate equally or not at all.

Brucey,

You brought up the topic of religious Zealots. I just assumed you were speaking about President Obama who makes policy decisions based on what god tells him to do. God tells Obama that gays and lesbians have fewer human rights then others and Obama makes that Democratic policy.

Obama a relgious Zealot?

Putting words in other people's mouths I see.
Only you claim such nonsense!
Gays and Lesbians getting hurt????
Any room for them in the right of center world??Hmm,Sounds like our friend here would be comfortable in a relgious supermacist state.

State worship is decrepid and always ends up bad.

Brucey,

We agree, what we have with President Obama is "Religious Zealotry." Unfortunately, when god speaks to Obama, it is gays and lesbians who get hurt...so far.

Voter,

You accuse me of wanting 3000 women and children to be killed, and now you pretend you didn't. You are kind of a Jimmy Carter - your style undermines your liberal position. So weird. Obama is choosing to fight in Afghanistan without international support - Obama is going alone in his war of choice. It is fun to watch liberals flounder to support George W. Obama.

"Your lie that I am lying is a lie"
Huh??

What we got here is a Religious Zealotry.
Christainity went thru it in middle ages.
Fundies still at it today.
Other 2 Semitic groups are still living it.
It's tribal,it's Archaic.
Indoctrination from cradle to adulthood by religion.
When you take the biblical book of Numbers and Revelations literally in the 21st Century you be a basket case.
Uptown,downtown or across the river.

Take yuz meds yos!

Peter,

P - #36 “Yet Obama is raging a war of choice in Afghanistan and WNYC never asks if Obama is acting in a proportional manner to the threat.”

V - #41 “You seem to be missing one key fact in your so called “war of choice in Afghanistan”…” “Terrorist in Afghanistan are responsible for the coordination and funding of the September 11th attacks in the United States…” “If you are proposing, by proportionality, that President Obama go into Afghanistan, kill 3000 innocent citizens, then just walk away as a tit for tat; that will do nothing to protect… …the United States of America…”

P - #44 “It isn’t my war of choice… Afghanistan is Obama’s war of choice. It is interesting that you and Hugh think I endorse mass murder”

V - 46 “I’ve said nothing about you endorsing mass murder… My comment was on proportionality and tit for tat warfare.”

P - #47 “You state that I am interested in having 3000 women and children killed. That is gross…”

V - #50 “Nothing about women and children, nothing about “mass murder” outside of the Biblically inspired eye for an eye, and nothing about it being your interest or wish. It was a direct question on your definition of what would be “proportionate” for the US in regards to Afghanistan as a response to September 11, 2001.”

Why not just explain how Afghanistan is a war of choice and what would be a proportionate response to 9/11? Or would you rather continue to make wild accusations?

Voter,

Your lie that I am lying is a lie.

I guess some libs can’t support views with facts, so you have to accuse me of wanting the mass murder of civilians. So odd.

Please stop lying Voter.

Peter,
This is my word for word quote from post #41:
“If you are proposing, by proportionality, that President Obama go into Afghanistan, kill 3000 innocent citizens, then just walk away as a tit for tat; that will do nothing to protect Israel, Europe, the United States of America, nor any number of innocent citizens in the Muslim majority states of the Middle East from ongoing terror.”
Nothing about women and children, nothing about “mass murder” outside of the Biblically inspired eye for an eye, and nothing about it being your interest or wish. It was a direct question on your definition of what would be “proportionate” for the US in regards to Afghanistan as a response to September 11, 2001.
Not only are you deliberately and hyperbolically misrepresenting what others have said, you are intentionally lying.

Bruce,

Yes, moral war. It looks like the Palestinians are going to think twice before firing thousands of rockets at Jewish children again. Hopefully Palestinians will also think twice about using their children as human shields.

Take care Brucey.

Israel's attack on Gaza Ghetto was like shooting fish in a barrel.1600 mostly civilian fatalities.Moral war???
Sounds like Soviet declarations of the past!Right of center indeed!!
Israel had land,sea and air sealed.
No not WARSAW GHETTO FOLKS>>>
But the Gaza ghetto of 1.5 million Palestinians. Largest open air prison in the world with IDF as wardens/assasins.
Israel's DOCUMENTED use of phosporous munitions on concentrated civilian areas constituted a war crime under Geneva convention/international law.IDF's record of targetting civilians are a continuous violation of the US Arms Control Act.Israel's depletion of munitions after Gaza Ghetto onslaught had to be restocked secretly by US over and above of the $10 million plus per day in US subsidies.

According to the Christian Science Monitor,the cost of Israel to the American TAXpayer has been over $1.6 TRILLION since 1973.http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html

Voter,

You state that I am interested in having 3000 women and children killed. That is gross, but you libs seem to be accustomed at avoiding issues in such a manner. I guess when the libs are faced with a discussion that gets challenging, the new thing is to yell, "the other guy must support mass murder." So weird.

You mention being an atheist. How do you feel about Obama making policy decisions based on what god tells him to do? Obama does not believe in the separation between church and state. So sad for human rights.

Peter in Sunset,
I’ve said nothing about you endorsing mass murder… My comment was on proportionality and tit for tat warfare.

Shirin @ #40,
The numbers I used were an admittedly wide range based on what I was able to find quickly to respond to your post. Whether the ratio is 1:20, 1:40, 1:60, or 1:80 the point I made on parity remains the same. Still, of that range of 12-25 Jews, approximately 5-6 million live in Israel (see note above on ranges) and half to two thirds of them are Mizrahim (from the Middle East, Central Asia and environs). That would mean you have overestimated (as a percentage of the land mass) the “historic land” occupied exclusively or predominately by Jews in regards to settlements and so called natural expansion. You also gloss over the partitioning of Palestine by Imperial Europe. I am not suggesting the partitioning be revisited, what I am saying is that the partitioning was foisted upon the Muslim empire by imperial powers and by the United Nation post WWII to create a majority state where there was not an existing majority. I’m making no attempt to imply solutions so none should be inferred. I’m just saying what is. And FYI, I am making these observations as an atheist, I have no interest whatsoever in the “holy land.”

Voter,

It isn’t my war of choice, Obama is the president. Afghanistan is Obama’s war of choice. It is interesting that you and Hugh think I endorse mass murder. I guess when liberals are faced with views they don’t agree with, the new thing is to yell “the other guy must support mass murder.” So weird.

jtt,

I agree with you about the importance of separating church and state. Unfortunately, Obama’s god is in the White House and Obama is making decisions on issues such as gay marriage because of religion. Obama’s god says that gays and lesbians are to be treated as lesser human beings and Obama makes it Democratic policy. So sad for human rights.

America's greatest gift to the world?

THE CONCEPT OF THE SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!

Hugh/19 --

List of (100s of) Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel in 2009. Attributed.

List of Palestinian Rocket Attacks on Israel in 2009:
LINK
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2009

The confusion, as in 2006, is that the media only reports when Israel strikes back.
PS I am as neutral as one can be on this -- in fact I simply imagine it's Canada and US.

Peter from Sunset Park,
You seem to be missing one key fact in your so called “war of choice in Afghanistan”, post #36. Terrorist in Afghanistan are responsible for the coordination and funding of the September 11th attacks in the United States in addition to attacks throughout Europe and regionally in the Middle East with ranks expanding into Pakistan. President Obama isn’t focusing on Afghanistan for shits and giggles just to have something to do, he is attempting to right the wrongs of neglecting the true front in the war on global terrorism from the previous administration. The war he is attempting to manage in Afghanistan also goes directly to the protection of the Israeli state.
If you are proposing, by proportionality, that President Obama go into Afghanistan, kill 3000 innocent citizens, then just walk away as a tit for tat; that will do nothing to protect Israel, Europe, the United States of America, nor any number of innocent citizens in the Muslim majority states of the Middle East from ongoing terror.

#33 lol - I don't know how many JEws there are in the world - but I'm a Muslim and there 1-1.3 billion - please check your flacts as you're numbers are quite inflated. The point of course, is not to have an exact match, but anyone who knows the Arab/Muslim world, or lives in it understands that the basis of the Arab/Israeli conflict is the desire to wipe out the Jews from the Arabia. The uncomfortable fact is that the whole Palestinian cause is just a ruse to destroy Israel. Arabs in Israel have a more peaceful, free and prosperous life than in most neighboring Arab/Muslim countries....but without the "Palestinian cause" how would so many Arab/Muslim dictators, mullahs, and other "leaders" be bale to deflect all the corruption, opression of women and other minorities and religious coercion? It's great to have Israel and the Jews as the bogeyman to blame everything on - but as time goes on and with the internet and the disinfectant of light and truth we are beginning to understand how things really work.

Like a typical lawyer President Obama is a great speaker especially, with International Relations. But I did not mention anything on delivery until now. To me talk is cheap and action speaks louder than words. I never thought he could deliver what he promises but I give him credibility for trying. He's got a tough job and no matter how many people think they could do better, could they really? Could anyone really and not feel like they had failed on certain respects? Before we help others I think we need to save ourselves. But he's right, what have any of us done lately besides complain?

The Israeli-Palestinian issue is neither the only nor the most important issue the President addressed. While I understand why it too often overshadows all others, it's a mistake to make it the focus or the sole takeaway from a speech that covered a broader agenda with 4 pillars he articulated quite forcefully. What strikes me is his repeated calls for global coordination, commitments and action that involves all U.N. members going forward. His values and vision could not be more clear.

For those who criticize the President's lack of specifics, I think he used his first address to the U.N. General Assembly appropriately as a forum for a broad vision. He spoke clearly about the specific ways his administration has already--within 9 months--taken concrete steps to reverse the disastrous domestic and international policies and actions of the previous administration. It was an impressive list of accomplishments and a clear blueprint for future action backed with funding. He acknowledged that much of that work is ahead of us here.

He's not a magician. Let's stand with the President and work to advance his vision or shape it constructively. Undermining him won't get us any closer to the change here or globally that we voted for in November.

Julia,

You wrote "Peter from Sunset: President Obama speaks well like a typical lawyer on many topics especially, on International Relations. But such broad strokes they are! But I'm not talking about delivery. I agree with Tom from Toronto. To me talk is cheap and action speaks louder than words. He's great with talking and glossing over things but I want to see some progressive action now. What are the excuse now, why are we still at war?"

You are preaching to the converted. Agreed, agreed, agreed. Finally, folks take a real look at Obama.

Shirin,

What you say makes complete sense. But Israel is treated differently because many Americans and many American liberals do not feel that Jews have the same rights as everyone else. For example, on WNYC, the BLS always asks if Israel’s acts of self defense are disproportionate. Yet Obama is raging a war of choice in Afghanistan and WNYC never asks if Obama is acting in a proportional manner to the threat. At the end of the day, many Americans and many American liberals simply hold Israel to a different standard then everyone else – that is anti-Semitism.

Peter from Sunset: President Obama speaks well like a typical lawyer on many topics especially, on International Relations. But such broad strokes they are! But I'm not talking about delivery. I agree with Tom from Toronto. To me talk is cheap and action speaks louder than words. He's great with talking and glossing over things but I want to see some progressive action now. What are the excuses now, why are we still at war? Yes, we should help others but let's first save ourselves.

Hugh,

Wow, you wrote that I advocate mass murder? Pehaps since you are liberal WNYC will allow you to say such a hateful and personally attacking lie. If I said that about you, Jimmy Carter, etc. it would surely be moderated (deleted). I guess when you are a liberal poster you have the advantage of sometimes being treated differently by the WNYC censors.

Dennis Ross is back in name, correct, but I would want him back in some actual real power. Ross understood that both sides needed to be pushed hard and he knows the history of what was offered.

There are many, many examples I can give you. The best example is that during the years and years of Arafat lead terrorism, the NY Times and many others demanded that Israelis talk with the very guy who was targeting women and children. In fact, the NY Times backed Arafat's rule up until about 2 weeks before he died. So sad for human rights.

Shirin.
There are 12-25million Jews in the world, there are 1.5-1.8 billion Muslims. (That’s 1:72 ratio of Jew to Muslim in the world population using the high estimates)
Are you proposing there be parity in number of countries for each?

Another flawless speech, eloquently delivered as expected. Bravo President Obama.

Julia wrote,

Obama is “good with International Relations”

Huh? Obama’s big thing now is waging a war of choice in Afghanistan and he can’t even stop NATO (Canada, Britain, and Germany) from pulling their troops out. Obama is proving to be an international push over and failure. What an amateur. Obama is going to war alone and folks still think because the French clap for him that Obama is a success.

To Peter from Sunset Park:

I don't know any critic of Israeli policy who endorses Palestinian terrorism. Give us an examle -- from the US.

And Dennis Ross is back. He's now working as part of the Obama administration.

That should make advocates of mass-murder of Palestinians like yourself very happy.

Looks like the wing-nuts on both the Israeli and Palestinian "sides" are out in full force, refuse to see beyond their own short-sighted, selfish and above all, self-destructive agendas. (I have Israeli children and grandchildren and know that neither the Palestinian national aspirations nor the continuation of Israel as the Jewish state we all worked so hard to bring about and support will succeed unless there are TWO sovereign states on that beloved terrirory.) Obama is right about the settlements and he is right about Palestinian extremism. This was a brilliant speech and ought to be the framework for a new era of global cooperation.

Hugh wrote,

"There have been something like 2 rocket attacks in the past 6 months."

Yes Hugh, you are correct, Israeli has military set back Palestinian terrorists. WNYC censors wouldn't even allow such a notion to be printed on these boards last year, now WNYC censors are forced to face the facts - Israel can and did militarily hit a smashing blow to Palestinian terrorists and the Palestinian interest in specifically targeting schools and Jewish children.

I hope the WNYC censors are learning something - sometimes, views you don't agree with on a political level are not only fair, but sometimes corerct. So here it is WNYC censors - I TOLD YOU SO.

I'm from Lebanon, but I happen to agree that this whole focus on Israel settltelments is silly....if Jews can't live in their historic land and they must be ethnically, or religously cleansed - what is to stop from disallowing Muslims from living in other areas of the world? ANd to be fair, Muslims live in Israel so why can't Jews live in a Palestinian state? I always find this the best evidence that Palestinians and there Muslim/Arab supporters have always been more interested in destroying Israel than building yet a 57th Muslim/ 23rd Arab country....and frankly, why be greedy? isn't 56/22 countries enough - you really need to destroy the tiny sliver of the smallest country just because it is of a different religion? come on guys, grow up...

Binky from Brooklyn,
President Obama’s speech was written for American consumption, that is the key thing to remember. So yes, the president is in favor of an ethnically cleansed theocracy (of sorts) in Israel while contending the proposed Palestinian state (in addition to all other Muslim majority Middle Eastern States) respect, value, promote, and permit free exercise of all religions equally.

President Obama is a great speaker; captivating, motivating, insightful, etc. The message was mixed as in direct and broad. What was glossed upon I wished he had elaborated. He's good with International Relations but what about health care reform in the US? What about Welfare State? What about the poor staying poor, some choosing to leach off the government and not make the most of themselves just so they could keep their low income housing apartment and Section 8? What about more and more money being funneled into Medicaid? How it doesn't seem to pay to live your life with dignity and to not leach off the government? The best thing President Clinton did was sign the Welfare Reform Act. Yes, President Obama I agree with you, we all need to take responsibility but doesn't that mean all groups should as well and not where it seems as if the country is making it easier for some? Insurance companies, claims and welfare cases needs to be heavily investigated on. It will help this country save money. I work in Social Services and I feel this way. That alone should turns some heads.

Wow, people are starting to slowly and carefully criticize President Obama. Hell IS starting to freeze over - so cool.

Tom,

I agree with you, President Obama is big on words, short on action.

But but,

I agree with you too. Obama and many in Europe and the West seem to think that the specific targeting of women and children by Palestinian terrorists is somehow okay. I actually think it is racist of so many to think that Palestinians needs to target children instead of using their words to negotiate. I hold the Palestinians to a higher standard.

Kurt,

I am disappointed too. Obama acts as if he is still campaigning. Of course, what does anyone expect from a guy who promises Jerusalem to the Israelis and then bright and early the next morning issues a press release saying he was wrong to do so. Obama is an amateur and not a man of nuance when it comes to talking about the Middle East.

Bring back Dennis Ross!

I admire Obama's message of world collaboration to solve world problems. It doesn't seem like a novel idea, yet to put it into effect has always been an ideal instead of a realization. I think anyone can see links between wars on terror and fear of death. It is good to see the President move the issue more towards human rights and interaction rather than the status quo of simplifying it down to terror and war (one aspect of the problem).

Can anyone explain to me why in a historic speech given to the whole world and leaders of 191 countries is such a high percentage of airtime given to the Arab-Israeli conflict when there are dozens of other conflicts in the world, when 100s of thousands have been killed in Darfur, when millions are homeless in Darfur?

Why is so much disporportionate attention given to this conflict?

In terms of climate change, why is the goal always 10 or 40 years away- 2020? Why can't we move faster on this?

Great speech, intelligent, balanced and most important...realistic. I am so proud of Obama!

To But but: You really need to check on your facts. There have been something like 2 rocket attacks in the past 6 months.

Since the beginning of the year over 1500 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces.

To pretend that the worst that happens to Palestinians is settlement construction is a RACIST lie.

Is the President in favour of ethnically cleansing the Palestinian areas of Jews? Palestinians can live in the Jewish state of Isreal, but no Jews in Palestine??

If wars pollute, then the US should get out of Afghanistan as well. His words will be empty his administration does not comply to his pillars.

The demand that Palestinians recognize the Israel as "The Jewish State" is one Palestinians should NOT agree to. It WILL be used by the likes of Avigdor Lieberman and Netanyahu to justify expulsion of Palestinians from Israel and to systematically deny Israeli Palestinians rights -- something that ALREADY happens. Palestinians in Israel are treated much as blacks were in the US in the 1930s.

Unfortunately, I can only give the President’s first address to the UN General Assembly a C+ at best.
President Obama’s chiding tone and willingness to gloss over wrongs of the past as settled without redress has cemented the belief that the Obama administration will be ineffective in human rights, the Middle East, climate change, and nuclear arms control.
President Obama as set himself for “physician heal thyself” blowback and it will be 100% deserved.
President Obama chose hegemony over harmony which will be seen for what it is. Do as I say, not as I continue to do.

"You may call me a dreamer but I'm not the only one."

He makes me want to keep going. Thinking about how he told students "let's go change the world" and that he has the potential to really do it.

I hope people (even people on this discussion board) can listen to the foundational values of what he is calling for: the equality and dignity of all people and the requirement of shared responsibility.

WHAT SACRIFICES IS THE CAUCASIAN WORLD LED BY AMERICA WILLING TO MAKE RIGHT NOW as a way to show LEADERSHIP, without that everything said is just that.
Will AMERICA REDUCE NUCLEAR WEAPONS STOCKPILE TO ZERO in five years or less.WILL AMERICA SHUT DOWN ALL COAL FIRED PLANTS WITHIN 5 years?
America Leads the CAUCASIAN WORLD and lets see some actual evidence that they really mean BUSINESS.

Sorry but this thought won't go away...Don't the Palestinians or others who shoot those rockets into Israel by the hundreds each month get ANY formal punishment or rebuke? It is awful and immature to build houses on disputed territory -- but shooting rockets it ain't. I realize it's not popular among Arabs, Muslims and Germans (and NYU students) to criticize Palestinians but Obama seems weak by not stating what to many is the obvious.

My reaction? My ears just glazed over. Just more words... Obama just went through the motions here.

People are really tired of hearing just pretty words and are now demanding action, but the dirty little secret now seems to be that Obama just can't get anything done - whether it be on the domestic front (healthcare) or on the international scene (MidEast Peace, Global Warming).

A credibility gap now exists between what he says and what he is able to get done.

I is so good to be able to feel proud again to be an American, after so long.

I'm disappointed. There were plenty of broad strokes, but few specifics. This speech could have been written by my High School class president. Barack is a visionary, I expected more.

I appreciate his approach of asking people to participate. If we want a better future, we must own today!
I really like it.

Hugh wrote,

Obama: "The murder of innocent men, women & children will never be tolerated."

Agreed. Israel's human rights based military victory is the ground work for Palestinians to finally give up the specific targeting of Jewish women and children as a negotiating strategy.

Hopefully President Obama can convince the democratically elected Palestinian government to stop encouraging its citizens on Palestinians national television to use their children as human shields. That might help matters. Israel is setting the standard for treating civilians in war with dignity, human rights and respect. Hopefully the world will follow.

"Pillar" is a word calculated to appeal to Muslims -- the Five Pillars of Islam.

"Paid for by the Israeli girl who closes her eyes in fear"..."Paid for by the boy in Gaza who has no state to call his own and no water" (Or something to that effect.)

Given that Palestinians deaths outnumber Israeli deaths by something like 100 to 1, that equality should be reversed.

The average Palestinians has to fear Israeli terror troops _every_ day. NOT SO for the Israelis. Simply not so.

Obama: "The murder of innocent men, women & children will never be tolerated."

Does he mean the way the US tolerated Israeli murder in Lebanon and Gaza? Actually, "tolerated" is not the right word. The US supported those war crimes.

And here is Obama again making weak comments on Israeli settlements while not doing one thing to pressure Israel.

Moreover, his comment about the "Jewish state" will be taken as an endorsement of Israeli plans to discriminate against the 25% of Israel's population that isn't Jewish.

He didn't scold the Israelis and Palestinians he backtracked on demands to stop the settlement building. Change we don't need.

Talks between Israelis and Palestinians are now possible because of Israel’s recent, stunning, human rights based military victory against Palestinian terrorists. Obama insisting upon (or agreeing upon) peace negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians with no preconditions is a good start.