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Open Phones: Disorderly Conduct

Tuesday, July 28, 2009

An invitation for our police listeners. In light of the incident with Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates and Sgt. James Crowley of the Cambridge Police, what can you tell us about disorderly conduct? When do you arrest someone for what they say to you, even if there is no underlying crime? Tell us how you approach these sorts of situations. Comment below!

Comments [68]

eva

(cont.)

I paid the ticket, despite my radical lawyer-boyfriend's insistence that I should fight it.

But unlike Gates, I was in a public space, not in my own home. And I was technically in the wrong.

A year later, I moved into an apartment in a house owned by a police officer. I have to be honest - my interaction with him was tainted by my growing unease not just with police, but with the overly rigid institutions in which we both worked.

Since that time, I have just tried to avoid police and their corollaries - overly authoritarian nurses. I've not only seen patients put on 72-hour psych holds simply for flipping off the charge nurse, but I've been the person expected to tie those patients down. For the record, there's nothing really "soft" about "soft restraints." That work made me feel deeply resentful of authority. (Beware nurses as much as cops - their jobs can turn good people into quick-to-take-offense paragons of unreasonable authority.)

Last year I was offered a job in China and turned it down - I figured my experiences with authority over the past few years made working in a police state not a wise option!

Jul. 28 2009 02:31 PM
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eva

hjs,

Excellent point on the class issue.

Weirdly, it was only when I was working a blue-collar job, that I got in trouble with the police.

A cop ticketed me ($150) for making a right turn at an intersection on my bicycle, at 3 miles an hour, without a "full stop."

The only ID I had with me was my hospital employee ID, which showed I had a much dirtier job and lower-paid job than they did. Usually, you can expect some professional courtesy amongst cops-firemen-paramedics-ER workers, because we interact so much through our work.

This expectation was likely part of my (bad) reaction.

The officer explained it was a "zero tolerance" day for bike infractions. I (stupidly) complained that there appeared to be full tolerance for SUV's at that intersection, but not bikes. And so on... I no doubt came across as a total Zsa Zsa (without the bad words and slapping.)

That's when they called back-up and "offered" to arrest me. I thought at the time that it would be worth the fight in court to examine the policies toward bikes as compared to SUV's. But I would have missed a work shift.

(cont.)

Jul. 28 2009 02:28 PM
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Voter from Brooklyn

#65 db,
Dana, in post 43, said “I know many minorities who are educated and strong and rise above it – and I have the utmost respect for them” continuing she says “I would just expect a strong, educated man such as Gates to keep his cool and make his point in a calm rational manner.”
The implication there, inherent or not, seems to be that: 1. Education will help you somehow rise above the same everyday racism that other members of your race face. In other words, you have an education now, (or you’re president now) get over it. 2. Education will change the level of racism against you… it’s racism, not classism, or anti-intellectualism. And 3. You can’t have a visceral ( i.e. black) reaction to racism (real or perceived) if you have an education, it’s your duty to make it a teachable moment, say yessuh off’cer, and move on unaffected.
She may not have intended any of the above, but it could be read that way.

Jul. 28 2009 01:57 PM
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db

Voter - I respect Gates as a scholar who is able to get his point across without yelling and such (this is difficult for most people, regardless of race, sex, etc.), I'm not sure what you meant by the inherent implications of education and black men.

I appreciate your "resume" point.

Jul. 28 2009 01:32 PM
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hjs from 11211

eva
with u 100% on that. not being a black man that's my first thought, how can one be disorderly in your own home.

also a topic rarely touch on class (i guess because there is NO class in america, LOL)

blue collar guy less educated (i assume.)
white collar over educated elite (clearly.)

blue collar wants respect cause he has a badge, sick of havard snobs.
white collar knows people of his class don't have to follow the rules (maybe gates was upset because he knows white elites don't have to follow the rules so why should he)

Jul. 28 2009 01:25 PM
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Voter from Brooklyn

I’ll make this plain for Dana, and others who may feel as she does.
I highly expect what I’m typing to be edited or wholly redacted by BL produces because I refuse to use the PC-feel-good euphemism “n-word” and I’ve said this before (and it was removed before.)
No one asks to see your resume before calling you nigger.
You can replace “nigger” with shooting you 41 times, raping you while handcuffed in a police station with a plunger, making you lie down in the middle of the street when you’ve done nothing wrong, or arresting you on frivolous charges because you talked back. Regardless, when racism or bias is the motive, nothing else matters when what’s obvious matters the most.

Jul. 28 2009 01:12 PM
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eva

To me, this has little to do with race, although I can easily understand why Gates would see it largely through the prism of race.

To me, this is all about the weird reality that you can be arrested in your own home, simply for not showing sufficient deference to the police.

That is really scary.

It's reassuring that so many of the police officers who called in today understood why this was an unnecessary arrest.

I want to like Sgt. Crowley, I understand that people make mistakes, and I have worked in a capacity in which I had to help restrain "violent" patients and I thought it was one of the most difficult and agonizing things I've ever had to do. 100 percent of the time, it wasn't my decision to restrain those patients, but it was my job to help do the dirty work of pinning them down, and it was agonizing to restrict someone of their freedom. So I don't think that all cops somehow get off on arresting people unnecessarily. That kind of job can change you if you're not really grounded. (And even if you are.)

I wish that Gates were making this about the un-constitutionality of the arrest, instead of about race. I wish Crowley would just admit it was a stupid arrest - everyone makes stupid mistakes, even the President.

Jul. 28 2009 01:06 PM
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Voter from Brooklyn

Dana (in post #43),
I’m not quite sure what your point was supposed to be or if there was an inherent implication in respects to education and black men. Please explain.
I am a young black man, with two professional degrees from non-ivy but internationally respected institutions, a white-collar job in a Manhattan landmark building, and a salary above the NYC household median. I don’t dress in hip-hop clothing, I don’t even listen to rap. I work directly with my firm’s clients on multi-million dollar projects. Still, I’m occasionally followed in stores… not often, but it happens; I was asked to leave a store in Manhattan. I have it a lot better than most black men, other than heavy rush-hour or in taxi anemic Brooklyn, I’ve never had a problem getting a yellow cab. I also happen to have an extremely Anglo first and last name, so you can’t assume race by resume or business card. But I know when I’m being profiled. Everything else melts away when someone who is racist sees a black face. That is what most all black men are initially judged on in the United States.

Jul. 28 2009 12:56 PM
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hjs from 11211

DaTruth
looks like u have all the answers, to your own questions at least.

Jul. 28 2009 12:42 PM
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scnex from harlem

To bluntly answer questions from (Truth), (hjs), (Hooper), as we all know that the abused must show deference...

How can we expect an offender, and the ones benefiting from the assault upon culture, mind, and body to understand when they would have to acknowledge their complicity by their superiority...

It is a way to subjugate; when knowing that their own advancement is in silently employing those that will do what they themselves understand that is being done.

The level of ignorance for which this society claims is staggering when I hear. "why is that abused person not thanking their abusers... " " did not we do so much by letting them clean our floors, wash our children, and house our jails, for which we pay..."

Jul. 28 2009 12:37 PM
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hjs from 11211

dana
ok then we're on the same page.

Jul. 28 2009 12:37 PM
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DaTruth

It was so absurd listening to the "reconciliation" phone callers on this show. To a person, it was all geared toward the "fact" that Sgt. Crowley shouldn't have arrested Professor Gates. Pretty fair, Mr. Lehrer, no?

This just reinforces the stereotype of the majority of WNYC listenership: Liberal, no repercussions for a lack personal accountability (unless you're a police officer, of course), viewing the world through a racial prism no matter the facts, etc.

Has anyone actually looked at the police report of the incident? Has anyone actually paid attention to the commentaries about Crowley's sterling reputation as an officer, and particularly as one sensitive to minority issues such as racial profiling given that he was tapped by an African-American superior to teach the course, no less?

Professor Gates was the individual who kept inciting problems in this incident. He's the one who couldn't get over the fact that like any other citizen, he would be asked to identify himself appropriately because of a call about a possible burglary in progress. If anything, he should be happy that the police responded and that the neighbor called, so his property would be protected. But no...how dare a white officer ask a black man for identification. What an undignified request!

Take a look at the latest video taken by CNN of interviews with Crowley's African-American co-workers. They support him 100 percent. Sure, it's the old "blue line", right? It couldn't possibly be that his character is beyond reproach. One female African-American officer at Cambridge has publicly said that she will no longer support Obama in future elections because of his unfair maligning of an officer and a police force in a patently local issue when he even admitted not knowing the facts. But wait...police ALWAYS distort the facts, right?

It's obvious that many here in this city need to get the collective chips of their shoulders if we are to get beyond this nonsense. Grow up.

Jul. 28 2009 12:36 PM
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dana

HJS - I actually would expect much more from the cops (it is their job to maintain order, not Gates') if I didn't have such low expectations of them - if you understand my thinking. I agree with other posters - most cops I have dealt with are arrogant and unprofessional. However, I have always held Gates in high esteem and maybe my expectations for him were too high . . . as per Hooper's point, the guy was probably too tired from his trip to be on his game.

Jul. 28 2009 12:28 PM
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Frank Henry from Long Island

(An imagined internal dialogue) So let me see, I'm a 58 yr. old guy who needs the support of a cane because one leg is shorter than the other. I just got off a 13 hour flight from China. I get home to find the damn front door is stuck and I can't get in. I go around back, let myself in, take care of the limo driver. The next thing I know I'm being hassled by a local cop. I show him 2 pieces of photo ID with my name and the address of the home he was called to and he still just won't go away. I'm tired from the trip, annoyed because of the damn door. What does it take to get some respect and some peace in my own home, and why don't people cut me a break? OK, I was a bit grouchy with the cop, but Jeez, I had a tough day. I sure hope President Obama has more than one beer in the cooler.

Jul. 28 2009 12:25 PM
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Teresa A Ginyard from Queens, NY


I think both the Professor and the Officer should read a profile (if they have not already) on each of them before they meeting at The White House with the President.

So, that they can better understand each other profession, careers and their history relating to race relations. (Their Bio)

And, when the meeting is over, they should start A Race Relations Tour with Michael Jackson song "Man in the Mirror" as the theme.

"Ooh ooh ooh aah
Gotta make a change
For once in my life
It's gonna feel real good
Gonna make a difference
Gonna make it right"

tagin2TG

Jul. 28 2009 12:16 PM
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Hooper from NYC

DANA - I appreciate your point of view and generally I think its appropriate but like the Truth stated how many times do you have to rise above others egregious behavior. Its just not possible. In addition Isn't it possible that a person can have a bad day or not be at their best? Gates had just returned from a long trip on the day of his arrest. It is highly likely he was jet lagged, exhausted ,frustrated and not at his best.

Jul. 28 2009 12:15 PM
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hjs from 11211

dana
I don't know why u ask more from gates than the cop, who should be acting in a profession manner while doing his job. the cop wanted to use his power to prove his 'manhood.' that's what the issue is.

Jul. 28 2009 12:13 PM
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Hooper from NYC

Cops often abuse their power and common citizens have little recourse if their rights are abused in this way. Cops know that they can seriously ruin your day by bringing you in for disorderly conduct. Then they can drop the charges as if they didn't totally violate somebody's rights. No harm no foul according to them.

Isn't this essentially kidnapping if no crime was actually committed?

Jul. 28 2009 12:03 PM
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dana

Truth from Brooklyn - I do not wish to have the experience, I do not wish for you to have the experience and I do not wish for anyone to have the experience. My only point is that Louis Gates had the stature and respect to do something else with this situation, if he had only been strong enough to keep his cool. As one of the preeminent scholars, I wish that it could have been so and think that Gates would have been in a much stronger position to teach America something if he had.

Jul. 28 2009 12:00 PM
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John from Bergen County NJ

#34 Vanessa In Brklyn hgts I completely understand. I recently applied to the US census. I may not get a position because of my resisting arrest conviction.
Ridiculous. Absolutely Ridiculous! And sad too.

Jul. 28 2009 12:00 PM
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hjs from 11211

Marielle
actually, when asked by 911, the caller said maybe one Hispanic & she did not see the other clearly. the call was not the problem. once the ID was shown the cop should have said sorry i'll be on my way. instead the cop said (to his dispatcher on tape) I've seen the ID please keep the (other cop) cars coming.

Jul. 28 2009 11:40 AM
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the truth from bkny

Dana..."rise above it?" How many times per day, week, month should this be done?

I wish you could be in the same scenario when you get home tonight so we could talk about it tomorrow.

Jul. 28 2009 11:39 AM
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Marielle from Brooklyn

Dear Nick:

Thank you for clarification about the original 911 call. It does sound like the trouble started with the original call.

Jul. 28 2009 11:33 AM
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Marielle from Brooklyn

Dear snoop:

My point in using the word "stereotype" was in response to your comment:

I am not a fan of cops. I don't like them. I don't trust them. I find them arrogant, abusive, and not terribly bright.

You are thus tarring EVERY cop on the force with the same brush - that's what I call a stereotype.

Jul. 28 2009 11:30 AM
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Bill from New York

#34: Your story is so frustrating, because it outlines the exact problem citizens face through police brutality: the violation of their right of self defense (because if you exercised that right surely you'd be screwed by the courts after the fact), and I don't see how stating that there are exceptions to that right doesn't fundamentally undermine it. What's particularly galling about cops and politicians who use their authority in the breaking of the law is the deep betrayal their actions entail, because they're using both the authority and the trust granted them by the citizenry they're victimizing. Dante had a special place in hell for people like that: at the very bottom. Cops and public officials found guilty of any crime while on duty or committed with the aid of the authority of their office should incur penalties far in excess of any civilian guilty of the same. Whatever the law says about what Vanessa experienced, she was attacked. Whatever the law has to say about it, any wrongful arrest is an act of kidnapping (made worse by the presence of firearms and the thread of violence, I'm sure) in the course of betraying the public trust.

Jul. 28 2009 11:27 AM
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dana

Truth and voter form Brooklyn - I see your point and realize that I can never fully understand the discomfort minorities experience every day due to racism.

However, I know many minorities who are educated and strong and rise above it - and I have the utmost respect for them. I've experienced police arrogance, rudeness and absurd powertrips on several occasions, and while I wanted to go flip out on them, because they were in the wrong, I kept my cool and ultimately it all worked out in the end.

I would just expect a strong, educated man such as Gates to keep his cool and make his point in a calm, rational manner. Such is the nature of academic debate, of which Gates is certainly a skilled expert. If he had done so, the police could not charge him with disorderly conduct.

Jul. 28 2009 11:25 AM
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scnex from harlem

For the first time in listening to this program the callers as well as the posters are not able to be prodded by the race issue that Brian likes to broadcast so much; this is an issue of authority and disrupting that authority, yet let us understand that the 911 call and the officer on the other end does point out what is simple profiling in his questioning, and this is something that needs to be understood. Not what the people where wearing, or their build, but the first and last question was what race....

One thing is clear that the public has little rights as humans, the authority wants the citizenry to be divided so policing them is much easier. Fear is the key.

Police need to obey the laws of the land themselves, and too many times their minor offenses which officers make see (Voter) are tantamount to the broken glass theory, and the slippery slope of one minor offense will just lead to the feeling of superiority to that of the people that they police. This is dangerous and officers must be held accountable....

Jul. 28 2009 11:24 AM
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Nick from Upper West Side

Marielle from Brooklyn:

The 911 caller completely falsified, or was in la la land, as to what she reported; claiming she saw several "Hispanic" men trying to break into Gates' house.

IMHO the completely irresponsible info given the cops by the 911 caller set the tone for the incident.

Jul. 28 2009 11:12 AM
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the truth from bkny

Everyone did NOT behave badly. You would be upset also if you were acosted in your own home and treated as a criminal even AFTER you proved that you live there and to have law enforcement officer turn his back on you as opposed to answering your question instead of simply providing his identifying information that we are ALL entitled to request, walk out onto to the porch and congregate with other men/women in blue as if you had not said a word. Yep I would invite them to get the hell off my patio also!

Jul. 28 2009 11:12 AM
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Marielle from Brooklyn

It sounds like everyone behaved badly in this situation, but the question about which I am still curious - who the heck called the cops? Do these people not know their own neighbors? Do they not know they are living next door to Henry Louis Gates? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole thing, but I still can't imagine why someone called the cops in the first place.

Jul. 28 2009 11:03 AM
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snoop from Brooklyn

To Marielle: What's your point? That it's a stereotype to not trust cops? Or a stereotype that there are "bad apples"?

I'd say there is some justification for either view.

Jul. 28 2009 11:02 AM
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hjs from 11211

snoop
remember the callers were WNYC listeners not the everyday cop on the street...

Jul. 28 2009 11:01 AM
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hjs from 11211

Pat Burns
don't know where you're from but this would never have happen to a white guy.

Jul. 28 2009 10:59 AM
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the truth from bkny

Dana I do not need to ask if you are a minority, I know that you are not or you would recognize someone trying treating you as if they are superior to you.

Jul. 28 2009 10:56 AM
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Vanessa from Prospect Heights, BK

In 1984 I was arrested in the Newark Path station on the platform. I had taken my bicycle on the train at about 4:30 pm and the controller opened the door and came down to the car I was in and said "are you going to get off or do I have to call the police?" I got off, and walked down to his glass booth and swore at him briefly, for being such a 'jerk' as to make me get off an almost empty train because of a 'no bikes during rush hour' rule.
I walked away with my bike, and I was at least 30,40 feet away from the booth, when I was grabbed from behind and before I knew what was happening one of my hands was in a handcuff. I totally lost it and had hysterics. I did not go limp, I struggled, and I got my hand out of the handcuff! Meanwhile I was still holding my bike with the other hand, somehow! The police officer never faced me or told me me I was under arrest. (At that point I was no longer verbally abusing anyone, but walking peacefully away) He called an Amtrak cop, and together they bent me backwards over the turnstile and the Amtrak cop covered my face with his flabby (short-sleeved) arm, and feeling suffocated I bit him!
Anyway, they booked me, held me lockked to the bench in Jersey City until about 2am when a friend came to get me and the PO quickly wrote me up for disorderly conduct, resisting arrest and assault on a police officer. (He boasted about how much $ he was making on triple overtime)
Months later, the second or third time I went to court, the judge charged me $300. I wish I had appealed, and gotten a good lawyer, and sued the PO for improper arrest.
The kicker is, that a couple of weeks ago, I was rejected from Canada, because this came up when they ran my social security number!

Jul. 28 2009 10:52 AM
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Voter from Brooklyn

Dana, post #17, how many times have you been accused of stealing an item and walked back to the cashier with receipt in hand because you made the mistake of not taking the plastic bag you didn’t need? How many times have you been asked to leave a store because the shop manager felt “uncomfortable” with you being there? Ever been stopped by police because you’re biking home w/o a headlight while severely intoxicated people stumble by? Probably not, you’re not a black man

Jul. 28 2009 10:51 AM
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Nick from Upper West Side

Are the police such babies that they can't take being yelled at by a little old man? They feel threatened by that? Did Gates pull a weapon or take a swing at the cops?

If 3 enormous cops are so babyish as to feel threatened by an annoyed little old man in his own home (the fact of which had already been established) then they really shouldn't be cops; they're not nearly mature enough. The correct response from the cops should have been "Sorry to bother you." and then leave, letting Gates fume alone. What nonsense.

Jul. 28 2009 10:49 AM
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Pat Burns from New York

When President Obama, Crowley and Skip Gates meet on Thursday, not only racial profiling but also calling everything racist when it isn't as well as the PC obligation to never hold people of color accountable for things because they are people of color also needs to be addressed. Otherwise, we only deal with one side of a two or three-sided problem

Jul. 28 2009 10:49 AM
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colin from bklyn

hard to trust a hyper macho trigger/arrest happy 22 year old...hiding their nervous inexperienced eyes behind holsters and badges. overcompensate much, cerdo?

and, my uncommon empire crumbling indicators:
we all know that people are uninsured (or at the very least underinsured) and underemployed; abused and sh|t on by employers and gov't,
and the POLICE are complaining about abuse (!)

-sigh

Jul. 28 2009 10:48 AM
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aysha Ibtasam from new york

Personally I don’t have much respect for police officers, I believe they are very arrogant, from the way they walk to the way they talk, overly macho and not very helpful. They have an attitude of someone who owns the roads, civilians and who have the total authority to break the system as they please. They have really lost the trust of civilians in my opinion with there major attitudes.

Jul. 28 2009 10:47 AM
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Ellen from Brooklyn

I think in this particular incident, both parties acted understandably from their point of view, but both could have done things differently to de-escalate the situation. I don't think the officer was being racist, but it's completely reasonable that Gates would see it differently. I would be angry too-- if I were either one of them! In general though, most police officers I have encountered are very even handed, straight forward and calm -- but they're still people. They make mistakes. Hopefully this is one we can all learn from.

Jul. 28 2009 10:47 AM
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Marielle from Brooklyn

To snoop from Brooklyn:

Wow, can you say "sterotype"?

Jul. 28 2009 10:46 AM
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Sandra from Astoria, Queens

The situation should have been over when it was established that Gates was the homeowner. At that point, seeing there was no crime, the officer should have left--even apologized for the misunderstanding. Instead, his ego got the best of him and he FABRICATED a crime (i.e. disorderly conduct).

Disorderly conduct is there to prevent riots, not because some guy is yelling at you on his own property.

Jul. 28 2009 10:45 AM
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jen from Brooklyn

I'm very impressed by the candor and thoughtfulness of the police officers and retired police officers who are calling in. Some of them could offer some great training for new officers.

Jul. 28 2009 10:44 AM
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Jennifer from Jersey City

An officer who treats the public with respect deserves respect. Let's not pretend that all officers do this. And a commanding officer who flatly states that officers shouldn't tolerate disrespect or abuse needs to seriously address the flip side of giving respect to the citizenry they serve. Otherwise, such a simple statment only encourages abuse of the public BY officers. Sets a very bad example.

I was in crawling traffic on Canal street one day in my car. My ipod was hanging from my mirror and I reached for it to turn it off and put it in my glove compartment. An officer directing traffic yelled at me to put the cell phone down or he'd write me a ticket. I said, "I'm not on my cell phone. That's my ipod I was putting away". This uniformed man whose salary is paid by the public said "Don't give me bullshit!"
Can you imagine how that so-called professional would handle a more serious "incident", one that he didnt merely imagine? He deserved to have me tell him to go #%!@ himself. I didn't. Because that's just the kind of power-hungry cretin that would try to charge ME with disorderly conduct.

There are many police who are worthy of respect and admiration. It's a shame there are so many bad ones who are not only tolerated, but promoted, and give the rest of them a bad name.

Jul. 28 2009 10:44 AM
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Ted from NJ

If your a control freak who like to push people around. Chances are law enforcement is likely your career choice.

Jul. 28 2009 10:43 AM
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Eugene from Brooklyn

the supervisor that just called in stated that when a crowd begins to form it may be appropriate to arrest someone.

unless of course the person is drawing a crowd to point out how much of a 'nutcase' they themselves are.

can this be taken to mean that anyone that notices gross police misconduct and begins to react to it emotionally, thereby drawing attention of a crowd, then that person can be arrested?

Jul. 28 2009 10:43 AM
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hjs from 11211

no charges were pressed, doesn't that say it all?

Jul. 28 2009 10:42 AM
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judy from NYC

It seems to me that oncer Mr gates showed his ID, the officer should have apologized for the intrusion. He might have said something like, "Sorry, sir, we had to check". then Mr gates could have thanked the officer for protecting his home.

Jul. 28 2009 10:42 AM
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snoop from Brooklyn

Wow. I am not a fan of cops. I don't like them. I don't trust them. I find them arrogant, abusive, and not terribly bright.

So-- I have to say I'm a bit taken aback. I'm impressed by what many of these officers calling in are saying. Reasonable, smart, intelligent.

I was expecting something along the lines of that police union chief-- arrogant, obnoxious, and yes, stupid.

Thank you to the callers. You have changed my mind. Maybe when people say it's just a few bad apples that cause the problems, it really is just a few bad apples.

Jul. 28 2009 10:42 AM
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Voter from Brooklyn

CPR is on police cruisers in the city… courteous, professional, and respectful. The problem is, in many neighborhoods in NYC, officers are not. Residents owe a great debt to the NYPD for making the City the safest large city in America, but everything from unrestrained shootings (of unarmed citizens), sodomy/rape/assault, and deliberately embarrassing otherwise innocent citizens to assert power to relatively harmless abuses of power (flashing lights to run red lights, driving while on cell phones, double parking, parking on sidewalks, blocking cross walks and other actions regular citizens can get cited for) don’t help the climate.

Jul. 28 2009 10:41 AM
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Christina from Manhattan

Millions of words have been said and the incident keeps being described as 'the controversial arrest' of HLGates. The 'controversy' escapes me. A black man was arrested by a white cop in his home. This is controversial? This happens every day. I wonder how many more blacks have been wrongfully arrested in the last two weeks. Why did this become an incidnent by Obama talking about it? Did it reoccur to everyone suddenly, OMG our president is black? Or somehow assume that he is black but has never been a victim of racism? Or has put all that behind him because he's the President?

Jul. 28 2009 10:40 AM
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dana

Police officers should act as professionals - but what about Gates. Here we have a highly educated, professional man flipping out on the police. An intelligent person would keep his cool and prepare for a lawsuit. Gates would have had my respect if he kept his cool and used this as a teachable moment for all. For me, he's (Gates) lost his credibility as a scholar and professional.

Jul. 28 2009 10:40 AM
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Marielle from Brooklyn

My husband was a police officer in East New York for seven years. I don't know exactly what Professor Gates said to that police officer, but I suspect that it pales in comparison to what my husband heard on a nightly basis. If his skin had been that thin, he wouldn't have made it through a single tour.

Jul. 28 2009 10:39 AM
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hjs from 11211

i guess there's no REAL crime up in cambridge mass.

Jul. 28 2009 10:38 AM
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RLewis from The Bowery

What's the answer to the Public vs. Private question? Does a person have to be in public, as opposed to in his home, to be arrested for Disorderly Conduct?

Wow, I could see non-city folk in the south being outrage by the idea of police coming into their home, and then later arrested them (if it's of a white person). Isn't why they want their 2nd amendment rights?

Jul. 28 2009 10:37 AM
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the truth from bkny

The gathered crowd WAS other police officers, the office was embarrassed and on a power trip when he excersied his authority.

The dismissal of charges is all the explantion needed here.

Jul. 28 2009 10:36 AM
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Chuck Renaud from Brooklyn

Police Officers should act as professionals and not take anything personally. They should be above that.

The fact that so many people are fearful of police and will not go to them for help is a strong sign of what is wrong with law enforcement.

Jul. 28 2009 10:34 AM
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David from Nyc

Brian, it's amazing when your stopped by the police you automatically loose all rights to even speak your mind. You have to stand and sometimes take abuse from an overly agressive, abnoxious and sometimes abusive cop but you can't say anything back to them or express yourself.

Jul. 28 2009 10:34 AM
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RLewis from The Bowery

How does that "supervisor cop" get to say "that's what My line is"? Does the cop get to make this decision? Isn't there a rule to say when a cop can arrest someone for Disorderly Conduct?

Jul. 28 2009 10:34 AM
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kai from NJ-NYC

Clearly arrests in such cases are made only when a police officer is made to be embarrassed after the investigation is conducted, particularly when in front groups of upper class neighbors who might jump in to pummel said police officer.

Jul. 28 2009 10:34 AM
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Charles from Bklyn

Disorderly conduct is a means for the police to ultimately maintain peace in a situation. The important point is the power is discretionary, and therfore, a police officer must balance a person's freedom with public order, always siding on a person's freedom unless absolutely necessary.

Jul. 28 2009 10:33 AM
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dana

It's not only about saving face when a crowd is forming - it is about public safety and the potential of a riot or similar breaking out. Just like a person can't scream fire in a crowded theater, the person should not be able to abuse a police officer and potentially incite a crowd.

Jul. 28 2009 10:33 AM
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Ivan from nyc

Brian,
In this country as other countries in the world, policemen/women carries a badge of
"AUTHORITHY". That word is the power behind any
police officers. we, the regular people....
doctors, lawyers, teachers, bricklayers,etc..
would love to have that power, but we don't.
when a police officer tells you with a voice of authorithy to show me your license..stay here..do not move..get on the floor..shut up.
if you do not do all those things you are in trouble"misconduct".That is why we had few black officers in the 60's, for them to that kind of power against any white person will be outrageous.When president Obama use that word
"stupidly" he sees himself at the professor's
place, that could have happen to him if he was not visible as the president now.there is some kind of indignation when you know that you tried so hard to be a good educated citizen and
all of sudden you got disrespect like that by a
officer that carries a badge of "AUTHORITY".

Jul. 28 2009 10:32 AM
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Tony from San Jose, CA

Shouldn't we be allowed to insult cops? First amendment? I don't (always) condone it, but it should be allowed, right?

Jul. 28 2009 10:32 AM
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bernard joseph from brooklyn

as someone who always had respect and appreciation for the job our police officers do here in nyc, i've had some recent experiences w/ the NYPD that have changed my view dramatically. i was involved in some random incidents that required the police to be involved and all they did was either make it worse or absolutely nothing at all.
the goal seems to be inaction. aggressive inaction and if action is required, then the result in inept and potentially dangerous to those who cooperate with the police. when the civilian politely questions the oficer about the details and end results then the officer almost every time, becomes belligerent and irritated.
i for one, will NEVER cooperate with the police ever again and i will take steps to protect myself because i know for a fact that they will not.

Jul. 28 2009 10:31 AM
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Bill from New York

In related:

http://www.slate.com/id/2223673/

Jul. 28 2009 10:29 AM
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John Hahn from Bergen County NJ

I too am a victim of this abuse of police power.
A neighbor was cutting down a 100 year old tree on our property. I called the police. They came. They did nothing but protect the tree cutters - later they said they were protecting me. (Destroy the village to save it?)
I am a 6 ' 4" white homeowner. 1 cop was 6' 4" in uniform 1 cop was much shorter and in plain clothes.
The shorter cop refused to identify himself or show his badge. Although his report says otherwise.
I was arrested as I walked in my backyard with a remote telephone in my hand. I was never told I was under arrest. I was grabbed. Handcuffed and taken to the police station.
I was charged with disorderly conduct (DC) and resisting arrest (RA). The 2nd charge is a favorite of police when they are grasping at straws for a legit charge.
When they set hands upon me I went limp. They called that resisting arrest. If I was resisting arrest then so was Ghandi and MLK.

The DC was dismissed since I was on my own property.
I was found guilty of RA.

One factor may have been 9/11. I was arrested on 7/2/01 but the trial was not until 9/27/01

There was a 'believe' what law enforcement says air in the courtroom.
Cops lie just like other human beings. The only difference is when they lie in court someone else has to pay for their lies.
I had to pay a lawyer, and fines. THe cops got overtime.
I teach our children how to deal with cops - listen to but do not trust them. They are not your friend.

Jul. 28 2009 10:28 AM
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