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Hey JC (Comment 29),
Thank you. That makes sense, and I agree with you, all sources including this one would pick it up if it was to cut off insurance companies. And I would think the insurance companies would be kicking and screaming right now. I'm still keeping my ears out, but how you are interpreting it makes sense, thanks.

Calls'em
PS
people win elections with votes not dollars. maybe mccain, his running mate and his message offered nothing to the American voter who after 29 years of being trickled down on by the reaganists, wanted a new foundation.

Calls'em
you win you're crazier than i am. congrats!

hjs and others...

There was a "coup" because the Dems violated two generations of commitment to election campaign reform. What happened subverted democracy as badly as if the troops came out of the barracks. Barry spent 800 million dollars to McCain's 84. Much of the Dems’ money is untraceable. Where did the money come from? The traceable money came from places like Goldman Sacks and Mayer Brown and other big shot investors and lawyers. Yet, not a word against this moral if not legal violation passed through the lips of the media which was in lockstep with the Dems and gave Obama 78% of the coverage time and probably more support in terms of tone. Even this “august” station gave McCain little or no coverage. Two quick examples come to mind: (1) Obama loses NH to Hillary while McCain wins on his side. WNYC - Brian and that radical lesbian (“not that there’s anything wrong with it…” - Seinfeld) “Femi-Nazi” with the phony voice make-over, Andrea Bernstein - cut from McCain’s victory speech after a minute or two to go live to Obama’s a/k/a Soetoro’s concession speech. Lol. Very biased and unprofessional. Fast forward to (2) the Florida Primary… we get the usual banal interest group coverage of the Dems mess in Florida (and Michigan) and then since there is really only the Republicans doing that “democracy” thing in Florida, WNYC switches to coverage of them. Fast forward to “coverage” of McCain, which consisted of a liberal Latina discussing why McCain is wrong for the Hispanic community. This sh-t happened time and time again. The coverage was so biased that I’m sure real reporters like Ed Murrow would be rolling in their graves if they hadn’t switched to listening to Sean long ago.

Make no mistake - this is a "Statist" power grab. The Dems don’t care about individuals they care about groups. They are illegally subverting democracy.

adsg
i your talking to me:
i guess i don't get the joke. last week was he "joking' about sotomayor?

i'm afraid calls'em is pulling your leg

calle'em
PS
i would guess that the 40 million plus people without insurance would "like the freedom to pick their own doctors" but they can't afford the cost. some would say just let them die in the street. i won't, a modern nation can and should do better. i see no reason for some insurance company to profit from my illness and death. but u can pay for private insurance if u wish, i don't mind waiting my turn.

Calls'em
there was an election please do use the word coup. someone has to fix the problems the GOP has created over the last 29 years.
when there is another election in 2010 the people will be heard, that is the rule of law.

hjs

I am an old fashion Hubert H. Humphrey liberal. I believe in democracy, capitalism and natural rights. I don't believe in this statist coup that is rapidly degrading our democracy, civil rights and taking over private property, media and business. I believe in the rule of law. I believe that Obama, Reid and Pelosi are violating that and are personally and institutionally corrupt. They will be investigated, prosecuted and/or voted out of office. There's lots of info out there that NPR and WNYC (both captives of Move On types) and the liberal media don't ever cover.

Olympia Dukakis was not Michael Dukakis's sister. They are cousins.

Calls'em
are u own new right wing ranter? welcome

Joke of the Day -- Charlie Rangel doesn’t want to take the proposed program. LOL! It’s good enough for the plebs, but not for the aristocracy. Rangel is a Army veteran (his one good thing), Congressman, tax cheat, simultaneous “renter” of four (4) contiguous rent controlled apartments (one used for an office) and general fabricator of reality speaks out on the proposed health care catastrophe being proposed by this new Obama a/k/a Barry Soetoro (dual citizen of Kenya and Indonesia), Pelosi and Reid Democrat Liberal Fascist Party. It’s all good according to these new Nazis, who have already taken over banking, investing and auto manufacturing. This man should be in jail and by 2012 we will see that many other Democrats should be in jail as well. Stop this disaster now! Call your Congress person and Senators and tell them you like your tax free health insurance; you like not waiting for tests and care; you like the freedom to pick your own doctors; you don’t want senior citizens cut off from critical care at the age of 70 like in many socialist countries; you don’t want all your private medical info in a government computer and you don’t want to pay taxes to support millions of illegal aliens who bring crime, disease and degradation to America while taking jobs from those who need them. We need tort reform now. It will immediately save billions of health care dollars.

Hi Brian,

When I heard Congressman Rangel's response to Anthony Weiner's position on a single payer health plan I began to wonder why Rangel would want to proctect the interests of insurance executives and lobbyists (who I'm sure are the people most happy with their current plan)over health care for all citizens that's not subject to Wall Street bottom lines.

Thanks,
Bob Quaranta

I agree with J.C.

Re: Comment #22

I suspect that Katie's comment comes from an editorial in the Investor's Business Daily that I'm pretty sure misreads and misquotes the bill.

I read Section 102 and see a very normal grandfather clause. In other words, this bill will require that new plans have to meet certain requirements, but OLD plans can continue to exist, but insurers are barred from signing up people to the old plans. If they insure someone new, that new policy must follow the requirements in this bill.

Anyone else read it differently?

I suspect if this bill were truly banning private health insurance, this station, the NYT, CNN, and everyone would be on it. Instead, the only paper throwing a temper tantrum is some conservative one that will never accept paying tax (gasp!) so that no one dies or goes bankrupt in America for lack of health insurance.

HJS,

this would imply that in order to control cost, you need to FIX prices i.e. make providers into govt employees. Only real socialized medicine can control costs or denial of care.

The denial of care route would be to eliminate cost shifting and third party pay and mandate FULL DISCLOSURE of medical outcomes. Right now, a patient has NO IDEA of the quality of the doctor. Doctors who maim not only are not held to account, they are not even pointed out. They keep practicing. Pay for performance

the discussion about health insurance drives me crazy. the fine for people who don't get health insurance is sad and scary to me. I don't have insurance because I can't afford to pay for it (and still pay my mortgage and maintenance fees) AND when i add up what i DID spend over the last year for doctors I am wayyyyyyyyyyy ahead, since I am fortunate enough to be healthy. (I spend some money on a gym membership which is much more valuable as a preventive measure rather than spending my last dollar buying insurance and then staying home and falling into illness and stiffness and cardio weakness...) I just can't pay for something I don't use. I can't afford to pay for the catastrophic coverage, either. so, when the only reason NOT to get it is because i can't afford what they offer why do they think I have money for a fine??? whoa. punish the lower middle class over educated and underemployed.

Laura
that's really a good point, because when ins companies don't pay hospitals and doctors just raise their prices on others who do pay to recoup their losses

What I don't understand is why no one is talking about the insurance companies. Costs are going up because of the ridiculous fees that they charge--not because doctors are raking it in, not because employers are bad, but because insurance companies have a system of charging for everything, and working as hard as they can to deny any and all claims (whether its getting Allegra from Aetna--they want you to take OTC Claritin--or your family doctor asking to be paid for services).

Requiring employers to pay for healthcare just continues the problem. Limiting doctors control of services will not bring down costs--it is a farce and a red herring. It's the insurance companies, the drug companies that they're in bed with and, I'm sorry to say, the Congressmen on their payroll who will spend a lot of our money to continue supporting the insurance companies, their denial of care, and their huge profits.

I participated in canvassing for the Obama health care principles last Sat. I went to Lincoln Center Plaza. Most people were very receptive and thanked me for canvassing. One young African American woman said that when you get cancer and you're poor, you die. An elderly caucasian woman said the Obama was a big disappointment so far on this, that he needed to do more to make single payer, universal care a reality. A medical student wanted to be sure it was not a petition for universal government healthcare because he wants to make a lot of money after he graduates. The Europeans and Canadians thought it was pretty amazing that to get healthcare, Americans have to go out and get petitions signed. I finally went up to a security guard and asked him to sign. He said it was illegal to canvas and he had to kick me out. He apologized and thanked me for what I was doing. He said with feeling that the rich in NYC want to stay rich and they don't care about anyone else. That he sees people committing crimes out of desperation.

So if its 2013 and there is a public option. And I lose my job and get hired by a new company, can I use my new company plan or will they be forced to use an exchange.

How does this exchange work?

Can Cong Rangel comment on if insurers are allowed to take new enrollments (ie, people), after the first year of this govt insurance. This is in reference to that Page 16, which I'd heard about, but can't find a definitive answer on it online or in news sources like this one. From the paragraph in the Bill, on page 16, it seems like insurance companies will no longer be able to take new clients, and cannot change what they offer. This is totally confusing to me, b/c it seems like it takes away choice, and takes away insurance companies, basically. Am I reading this right? I mean, insurance companies are pain, but it sounds like they are being made ineffective, and thus, this "choice" thing is wrong...that we cannot choose a plan. We can KEEP our existing plan, but that's it. No shopping around. Please help. I'm sure I'm reading this wrong.
Page 16:
SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE. (a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGEDEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov- erage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met: 9
(1) LIMITATIONONNEWENROLLMENT.— (A) INGENERAL.—Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first ef- fective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1. (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PER- MITTED.—Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.

I've been to dentists and doctors who do not accept Medicaid patients - will medical professionals be permitted to NOT accept patients who select the government insurance?

Hey HJS,

It's because the current system does not believe that normal non-impoversished deserve a decent government insurance plan.

In a decent society we would all be in the SAME plan. Rich and poor

Will we need more doctors since more people will be covered?

And, what about malpractice with a public plan.

Taiwan, Switzerland, Germany, Great Britain, Spain, Scandinavia, New Zealand, HongKong, Japan, Canada, France, Belgiu, The Netherlands, South Korea and some of Latin America have Public Health systems. No one goes bankrupt; everyone takes part; there are no gatekeepers,no one is denied; there are private doctors and hospitals; they all spend half or less than the U.S.
What is not to like here? All of those industrial countries would be furious and revolt if their Public Health Care was taken away. RE: FRONTLINE: Sick Around the World.

Unfortunately, Congressman Rangel's reseated abuse of power for personal profit taints any program, no matter how worthy, for which he is an advocate.

If he really cares about these issues, he should step aside and allow a less tainted, and more eloquent person to step forward as our representative.

As an independent contractor, I fit in the highest tax bracket and I have never made 6 figures. The average real estate broker makes $50,000 a year and works very hard for it.It's not the millions that most people think. I also pay $8,500 a year for health insurance and that's with a group discount. $300K in major metropolitan areas, like NYC might not be much, but those outside the major metropolitan areas, $300K is a lot of money.

Please ask why everyone rejected Obama's proposal the tax deduction rate for the wealthiest 1.2% of taxpayers to the 28% levels they enjoyed during Reagan’s administration rather than their current 35% rate. Even if they compromised and lowered it to 31% level, that would still be more than half of what the rest of us get to deduct. That seems to me to be an "entitlement" to which the very wealthy are not really entitled. I'm not buying the chilling effect on charitable donations.

Taxing insurance benefits on earners of $250,000 or less would break a core promise--and really break faith with the entire electorate. That's a non-starter.

The top earners got the most benefit from the Bush tax cuts. The rest of us didn't enjoy that benefit.

Btw--The House tax as reported is an increase starting at 1% for 280K for individuals and 350K for couples. I believe it's about 4% for earners of $1 million.

What we should be outraged about is 1. no cheap imports from canada and 2. no negotiating with pharma cos. always dangerous in the long run to go counter to the free market.

We'll end up with fake canadian imports really made in china (with which chinese are already poisoning themselves by the thousands) and congress knows it or better.

unemployed
and do tell why daddy has to be "improvished" to get help with his medical bills??

To the woman who is outraged that rich people will subsidize the poorest people -- I suggest the only way to proceed is to hold a referendum. Is it American to help other people?

(Whoever votes no can just get the f*kc out)

Who are these small business people who NET more that 250K a year? No one ever really identifies them.

Congressman Rangel has a good technique for not answering the question on high-end earners by diverting attention to the middle class. And he hints that taxes would go down -- when did that every happen with a democratic administration?

As a primary care physician, I am disappointed that the current bills in the house do little or nothing to address skyrocketing medical costs that come from lack of access to primary care, duplicative medical care brought on by the lack of streamlined electronic medical records, and a medical culture that embraces and is reinforced by over-utilization of services. Where are the cost-containing measures in this bill? Why not single payer?

The Republican push back -- let's do nothing and let's not tax -- is getting all the attention because it's a simple message. We need a full discussion of the facts and consequences of doing nothing. The status quo cannot stand. I'm not disappointed in Obama -- it's the Congress.

Here we go again with the "Healthcare costs are out of control - they keep going up." Then please ask Rangel how Reform is going to save money when all we hear about it how many trillion the plan is going to cost.

Biggest Medicaid cost is the nursing home scam a la Pataki's dad. Improvish daddy by shifting assets to sonny. Declared daddy poor. Make him Medicaid eligible. Cheat the system

It's important to note the special interest lobbies that oppose national health coverage.
The well insured Congress is catering to these big money forces.It has gotten where Lobbies call the shots in Washington, as in the 2 recent expensive wars that the Israel lobby,AIPAC forced on the American people.
Expose the Lobbies..
Vote the Bums out!

Lessons for Massachusetts, getting the young 20 yr old uninsureds did not greatly drop costs.

Well what is a cost? It is income to doctors [avg cardiologist makes about half a million], income to drug companies, income to insurance executives. Hey richard Scrushy, cheat the govt recently? You are lucky to have a jury system.

It is immoral that the income of these guys are graeter than 1 sixth of the GNP [17% of the economy] In the 1990s it was 14%, in the 1980s it was 12%. Are they greedy enough?

As a Democrat and supporter of Obama, I'm pretty disappointed by these health care proposals. They seem to be doing all the wrong things.

Can you please ask Mr Rangel why we can't get health care out of the hands of employers? As powerful as the insurance companies are, I can't believe that every other business in this country wouldn't get behind a plan that took health care costs off their list of expenses. Sure, you need to balance that with taxes, but surely the costs would be less for businesses both small and large.

When did the House Ways and Means Committee get renamed The Powerful House Ways and Means Committee? I missed it.

Brian,

It's been exactly a year since a program you broadcast called "Rangel's Ethics" (http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/episodes/2008/07/18/segments/103875). The "Congressman" has no credibility to discuss healthcare reform. He is a tax evader and should not be making public policy decisions with taxpayers' money. Rangel should be indicted, convicted and thrown out of office.

Brian, please challenge him to step down from office and return to his four rent-controlled apartments and shady Carribean investments. Rangel thinks the public forgot--I didn't, particularly the political payoffs for his eponymously named center at CCNY from AIG and Nabors Industries executives wanting a gigantic tax break!