wnyc.org / 93.9fm / am 820

JP
thanks for being a fan :) i guess i'm in a weird mood. i did not mean they are morons or anything but i'm glad they are not operating on me and I would not like to operate on me either. i'm sure most of them are very nice people, BUT just because they enjoy taking risks with their own lives doesn't guarantee they are heroes.

HJS,

I should apologize for being the PC thug. But I was just surprised since you almost always bring common sense and reality to the table when people say not so smart things, PC or not.

JP
oh please. sorry if i'm not talking PC today.
thanks for the info, i'll have to think on that.

HJS,

Point hose at fire? I don’t know where you meet firemen but all the firemen I know are anything but stupid. They are constantly being drilled, assessed and re certified on a lot more things then “point hose at fire”. How many life saving techniques are you certified in? Oh and by the way only NYC firemen where at 911. You have a very sad jaded view of people that run towards a fire to save people while everyone else is running away…

I’m sad to say on this subject you are sounding like the narrow minded stuck up white collar NYC cracker you usually don’t tolerate.

JP
point hose at the fire.
i've met enough thug firemen to know of what i speak. not rocket science. great paying job for a college (or high school) dropout. rioting drunk in bars when not at work.
u should ask why dead firemen were wearing multiple expensive watches on 9/11?

hjs from 11211,

Shame on you!!! I expect much better from you!!! “You don’t have to be very smart to be a Fireman”? Hydraulics, accelerants, chemical reactions, first aid, CPR, allergic reactions, amputations, structural integrity, climate control, climate reactions, electrical, plumbing, Hurst firefighting apparatus (jaws of life), pump controls, pump maintenance and a lot more things that I have not mentioned. Are you an expert and well versed in even just one of these subjects? The person who would risk their life without even thinking about it to save your life if you should ever find your self in a life threatening situation has to be an expert on all these subjects and many more. Your life depends on it.

Think before you belittle people who are a lot more intelligent then the average person walking down the street. Now go make a donation to your local fire department for such disgraceful remarks.

as a black i say get rid of aff. action,so middle class blacks,you know the go along get along negro's (like that mutt OBAMA)can see how hard it is un employed ,and fill the workers with other mutts from 3rd world cesspools of a country

These guys were already proven firefighters. That's not what the test was testing, it was testing, as your much appreciated caller pointed out, supervisory knowledge and ability for supervisory responsibilities. Whether or not the test is the best way to measure such things is irrelevant to the issue here. The point is that the test was advanced as the terms on which advancement would be determined and all the takers understood this. Individuals spent time and effort preparing for it, and when undesirable results were obtained (the desirable results here having nothing to do with firefighting) the results were thrown out, which, from the perspective of the test takers, is fraud. So what if the test was written up in Chicago. Let's say it was geographically specific: still then it's advanced as the terms on which the test-takers are to advance, and still we're where we are if the result is that white firefighters scored better than minority and other white firefighters. Could it be that what kept the minorities from scoring as high as the first group wasn't the test but how similar they were to the second group of white firefighters? That they didn't study hard enough, weren't qualified, whatever? Blaming the test is a willfully outrageous leap of logic.

"...all men are creaed equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

It took four-score and seven of human experience to recognize black men as so endowd and still another almost three score to so endow women.

Anyone who suggests that human experience should not be part of the interpretation of the law is probably a fool if not a facist.

John from the offcie is a minority and a well paid attorney, who came from parents who cared about education. Never asked for a handout.

MichaelB
it was just a suggestion. i'm ok with multiple choice. the only easier test would be t/f. but the SCOTUS was very activist when striking down the actions of the elected government of new haven. sometimes the courts have to intervene that's their job.

All this talk about how Sotomayor may use her hispanic background to make decisions.... isn't this the same thing as Ginsberg dissagreeing with her fellow justices when they were working on the 12 year old girl who was stripped search in school? I thought I had heard that the male justices didn't think this was that horrible and Ginsberg strongly dissagreed. Being male or female influences how you think in the same was as being hispanic, jewish, catholic etc does.... it all makes up who you are!

This woman is a professor?! Next guest please.

And if Lindsay Graham had said a "wise" old white man???

For future reference, "jon from office," your racist complaints about minorities not being able to use language well would be stronger were you actually able to write a correct English sentence.

Clearly the education system has failed in your case as well, not just "education in the black community."

It costs $500 for the study materials. Why not make the materials free or for a significant discount. Or perhaps a community college could offer a free course on the exam.

That could solve the issue.

test is not relevant one doesn't have to be very smart to be a fireperson. BUT without tests the nepotism would become rampant again

I meant splitting hairs about the geographical location of where the person who developed the test lived, and the differences of fires in different locales... too far removed from the real underlying issues.

To caller Laurie, who is worried about different tests for firefighter managers potentially putting people's lives at risk:

Let's remember that, as Justice Ginsburg noted in her dissenting opinion for the Court, New Haven's neighbor, Bridgeport, used to use a promotion process similar to New Haven's, in which Bridgeport based 70% of an applicant's score on the written exam, with few non-white candidates scoring high enough for promotions.

Bridgeport recognized that the oral component of the exam was much better at evaluating a candidate's approach to "real-life scenarios" and changed the relative weights assigned to the oral and written exams. In the past few years since that change, non-white candidates have been much better represented among candidates awarded promotions, without Bridgeport being consumed by mass conflagration.

What do I want in a fireman?
Courage!
Test for that.

Brian, let your child be operated on by a Doctor that cannot pass a written test. Again, you should never interview black guests.

The guest is really splitting hairs, but even if you concede some of her points, it doesn't necessarily prove discrimination.

The Supreme Court was placed to clarify legalities that need clarification. Bring together law, purpose, implementation and impact. Judicial Activisim insinuates, if not directly then indirectly, that a court official is pushing their agenda/ideology vis a vi their rulings without regard to precedent, logic, text or reason. Thomas is the prime example of this. Sotomayor, is the complete opposite of Thomas. I wish there was a way to impeach Thomas, but I digress. Judicial Activism should not be tolerated, but it should not blind people that judges are computers. Im assuming many of us do not remember this but our judicial branch is a balancing power created by our founding fathers in order to not maintain power solely in our executive or legislative branches. If the purpose of our judicial branch is not to clarify and reconcile law, purpose, implementation and impact, it might as well be a computer to spit out "wrong" and "right" answers. I do not think we need anymore Thomas type justices on the bench, but instead actually thinking, rationalizing, intelligent and yes empathetic justices. If our founding fathers did not have empathy, they would not have created checks and balances or the 9th amendment.

The speaker is RIGHT. What the public wants is for their fires to be put out safely. I am so glad that this caller is challenging the self-important guest.

hjs [8]: Oral?

(A) Probably not practical depending upon how many people may be taking a test.

(B) More importantly, do you really think that interviewing people face to face would be MORE or LESS subjective and more or less open to the charge of subjectivity/bias/discrimination vs a standard written test, administered in a uniform way?

Brian, ask her why blacks don't do well in school or why do they need lower standards to do a essential job??, who do you want as a fireman

MichaelB
oral?

Typos fixed:

John Roberts is a judicial activist -- his decisions are motivated by ideology -- and, in my view, an arrogant, self-righteous prig. Even high intelligence does not ensure a correct decision, because the law can be read in many ways. What ensures a correct decision is an understanding of where the law comes from -- human society -- and what it is supposed to govern -- the behavior of human beings.

This doesn't meant that you ignore the rules. Nothing is pure deductive reasoning -- not merely because any decision requires findings of fact, but also because precedents are not mathematical formulas, and can therefore be read in more than one manner. (Hence, they get overruled.) Judge Sotomayer clearly knows, as wise professional women do, when to keep her mouth shut and let the boys bloviate. She has the majority vote.

Once again Brian cannot interview black guest, he never can ask the hard question and is too scared to ask anything of harsh.

Ask why can't black read well or why can they not pass a simple test, what ever the form. The problem is education in the black community.

I also don't understand the implied statements that "multiple choice" tests are automatically discriminatory... minorities can't answer multiple choice correctly?? What other types of questions would the guest suggest is fairer, "fill in the blank"? Essays?

I don't get this.

Brian -

Sotomayor was not 'accusing' the Supreme Court of judicial activism. She was simply trying to justify her decision by stating that she was following the earlier standard, which the Supreme Court then changed. She clearly said earlier in the hearings that it is well within the Supreme Court's rights to change the standard.

She is basically saying that she was doing her job as a district judge, and they were doing their job as the Supreme Court. Nobody is overstepping their boundaries, and just because there is an overturning of her decision doesn't mean she was wrong.

Why did the fear of a lawsuit apply only to the black firefighters? Didn't New Haven also fear the firefighters who passed the test suing after they invalidated the result after the fact?

I mean if the rationale was to avoid lawsuits was justification...it doesn't hold water.

Does you feel you were short-changed when you were nominated for the civil rights post under Clinton? How did you feel when Bill Clinton stated that he didn't read your legal opinions?

And, are you still friends with Hillary Clinton? How can she influence the issues you care about as Secretary of State?