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It is a fact that approximately half of the human beings who currently live in "Israel-Palestine" (the area currently under Israeli control) are not Jewish. They should be given equal rights.

As someone who grew up in a post-civil rights movement America, I cannot see how my country has anything in common with these right-wing Israeli politicians (or the population that elected them). Their policies are antagonistic to everything that the civil rights movement stood for.

One person, one vote. Equal protection before the law. These are the public values of America today, and thankfully no longer the racism and ethno-religious nationalism that are a shameful part of American history and that Israelis have descended into.

94 -- normally wars solve that little problem. Winner and loser, scorched earth if needed. I'll never understand how you win a war yet keep fighting it. Talk about an inferiority complex. How cruel to all involved.

or at least the shame you, hjs

lol

wow!
I see now why the comments board gets shut down around this topic. I'm sorry that I criticized the BL show staff. I doubt BL has so many listeners around the country ready to "clean up" greater israel.
clearly some are conspiring to get their hateful ideas out there. but by printing these ideas they shame all who have suffered under tyrants of the past.

If you refuse to say the Pledge of Allegiance in school (as do many Quakers, Jehovah's Witnesses, and member of other minority religious or political groups), you don't lose your right to vote.

Why are these drips in Brooklyn, NJ, and Queens not questioning the Tamils, who have slain over 60,000 in the past few months in their efforts to rid themselves of nuisance terrorists?

Why are they not ashamed and roused by Sudan's 2 million-plus murder and daily rape of thousands of black Sudanese animists and Christian women--by Janjaweed who are, hm, strangely enough, also coreligionists?

Why are these faux humanists not ashamed of the 60-years animus and deadly charter of a ragtag bunch of creeps and smoking slatterns who refuse thrice the offer of a state, only to keep boiling the tureen with soup of the day: Hate for Jews and death to Israel?

He grew angry at the clarity of my reasoning: True--if his buddies would place a fifth of their energies into making a going economy instead of incessant efforts to destroy Israel, whose efforts at truckloads of food and meds and energy daily are ignored because it does not fit with their myth-making of untruth that Isreal has 'blocked' them--if they would work for a living instead of yodeling hate and destruction and raining same on the innocent hardworking citizens of their neighbor, Israel, maybe they would not be the laughingstock of the arab world, the boil on the behind of the arabs.

Maybe if they could make a country with hard work and dedication to their families instead of forcing their women and children to shield them so bravely, so stalwartly, maybe they could make of themselves something.

#100 (jgarbuz),

I hear you… I, as a secular person, when to a secular elementary and pledged the same pledge of allegiance (written in 1892 by a Baptist minister) to the flag of the UNITED States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation (one-state solution), under God (added in 1954 partially from the efforts of a Catholic organization who felt it was incomplete without a nod to “the creator” and as a way of differentiating Americans from the Godless Commies) indivisible (eternal one-state solution) with liberty and justice for all (however only when amending the Constitution, Supreme Court ruling, act of Congress or Presidential mandate decides it’s time.)
The problem is, Lieberman’s loyalty oath is more along the lines of oaths under McCarthyism than an oath to the ideals of a Nation. If Middle Eastern Arabs in Israel and Jewish Israelis of many origins were treated equally and had the same rights and responsibilities, a pledge similar to ours would make since. This is different, this is a pledge of self-denial. That would be like expecting Americans slaves to pledge allegiance to a nation that maintains they are and always will be slaves. To expect people to pledge against their own convictions… their religion, is to expect them to pledge against their own self interest. I am a secular man, but I am also a strong believer in the 1st Amendment.

Legally, the status of Palestine as the "Jewish National Home" was recognized and established by the Council of the League of Nations at San Remo in 1922, but it also remarked that nothing should be done to harm the civil and religious rights of "non-Jewish inhabitants." It made no mention of any Arab Palestinian national polity, but only of "non-Jewish inhabitants."

More than 8,500 people were forced out of homes they had had for 40+ years, and have still not been resettled into proper neighborhoods, jobs or schools. The area that is Gaza today, which I visited the month before it was regrettably transferred to the career terror specialists and horror-mongers and vicious child murderers, was a gorgeous and green area thriving with agriculture, gardens, kindergartens and business.

The very moment Mort Zuckerman paid over $14 million for the greenhouses that used 17,000 workers before the handover, that very moment, the peaceful and charming and intemperate terrorists took it apart branch from brook.

To Peter # 98:
Freedom of speech is curtailed when the society deems it harmful. The Arab-Israeli legislators were being treasonous, and that should be prevented, just as here in the U.S. it is against the law to call for the assassination of people. But Israel has also made laws against hate speech against Arabs, which is one proof among many that Israel is not a racist government.

Christianity is a multinational or "universal" religion. Islam is a multinational religion. Buddhism is a multinational religion. But Judaism is the religion strictly of the Tribe of Judah or the Nation of Israel. While it is possible to join the tribe, it is neither sought nor necessary for "salvation" or any of that. Like the religion of the Navajos, it is strictly a tribal religion. "Jewish" is a tribal identity not merely a religious affiliation.

To answer some dimwit about the checkpoints, in Zimbabwe, I stood 8 hours, in the sun, and then was forced to pay a bribe to some border jerk/thief before he would let me in--and that was as a tourist about to spend money in that now-worthless bankrupt mess of a country.

Israel is doing what the US now does almost everywhere--I get checked out every time I do jury duty, go to a job, interview colleagues--every major building has a raft of security guards--thanks to...thug in chief, Yasir Arafat. So for Israel, with vast justification, to do checkpoint duty is unexceptionable. Checkpoints mean men and women pretending to be sick or whatever cannot come into Israel and celebrate the death of Jews as they descend to capture 72 worthless raisins as 'rward' for killing 'the sons of apes and pigs,' which is how Jews are routinely characterized in all the lit, op-eds, newspapers, mosque podia and charters of death.

There is no occupation. There never was an occupation. There is and was a righteous, self-defensive country trying not to be killed by the entrepreneurs who traipsed into buses and synagogues, cafes and bars and set themselves alight, the better to destroy hundreds of hard-working innocents.

If these murderers were not so habituated to killing themselves en route to killing Jews and Christian, Hindus, Sikhs, Baha'i, atheists and Druse, perhaps they would not be screened so carefully.

Why is Israel supposed to make itself open to deliberate arab murder patrols? what is so hard to understand about the idea of not getting killed by men from outside of the country when you are trying to buy grocveries and get to work? why is that concept so foreign to these defenders of men who never sue for peace, ever, never, ever, never?

A loyalty oath is perhaps unpleasant, but the arabs who reside in amity and protected peace for 60 years in Israel have shown themselves unappetizingly prone to destructive acts, fifth columnist actions--despite the fact that they live, in Israel, better than they would anywhere in the arab/muslim pantheon--or why don't they leave and bother the Swedes and ruin the poor heretofore-nice country of the New Zealanders, the way millions of arabs in muslim-dominant countries are doing?

To these thready 'Jews,' Jewish people should have nowhere to be alive and safe. Let Jews be chased and murdered in every country. And Israel was given as a Jewish country, my buddies--it was not given as a place for Jews to be wracked with missiles by hating terrorists--that was the very purpose of establishing a single sole only homeland for the few Jews who were not murdered by the parents of the majority of the posters or their grandparents in the ever-kindly European continent.

Even if the turncoat rabble of anti-Zionist JStreeters can't swallow it. Too darn bad. It is a place where the Jews who were not murdered by the nazi juggernaut of WWII Europeans who still cannot profess an acceptance of the Jew went to stay safe and alive.

That there are 57 majoritarian arab/muslim countries--the vast majority of which do not permit a single Jew to own property or live in peace!--and these stealth Jew-bashers find nothing to comment upon, and without knowing a dram of anything say that the arabs cannot vote in Israel--this indicates that they need an immersion course in what they think they are saying. Gays do not get hanged in Israel. Women do not get stoned for talking to a male nonrelative in Israel. Oeople can worship--or not--as they please in multiethnic Israel. Why not complain about I'm-in-a-dinner-jacket's decapitation of Homosexuals? Why not protest honor killings in Saudia? Why protest the hanging of 'suspected collaborators''--of what? Of when? Who? Why?.

How tragic that so many listeners to the Lehrer show are misinformed, cannot spell, ally themselves unthinkingly with terrorists, side with a man who is an extreme version of fake-Pali Edward Said [Barghouti has been in jail for acts of terror], cannot read or understand history, do not seem to be able to distinguish facts from myth and sloganeering by arabs who became "Palestinian" only after Arafat dubbed them that, not in '48, but in 1964--further ignorance drenches their posts!-stealing even the very name that was for centuries nominative of Jews.

Before Israel was named Israel, in 1948, it was Palestine; the local daily paper, for Jews, was The Palestine Times--and it was nothing to do with the bunch of retreads that arafat dragged around after he was ejected from country after country and massacred by the Jordanians (30,000! in one week! yet their defenders--where were they? Umm, silent, cause only Jews warrant their rage and tsk tsk clucking--in Jordon and ejected elsewhere as unacceptable and troublemakers deluxe.

How tragic that these ipse dixit "Jews" who are so flatulent on behalf of the people who wish them dead have forgotten that Jews have been in this area for 4000 years, and the Bedouin, Druse, nomadic arabs have been there less than 1000--even then, never in their own state, never with a king or leader, never with laws or any form of statescraft whatsoever.

Israel is a country. Get used to it.

jgarbuz
who said that?
of course israel legal claim is not 200 years old either. israel's legal claim comes from the UN

sunny
40, my point no time soon

The names "American," "New England" and many such regional and geographical labels are relatively new -certainly less than 500 years in existence. So I don't mind if ARabs now call themselves "Palestinians," but when they speak of "historic Palestine" or try to intimate that Jesus and Jeremiah were "Palestinians" then that is crazy and utterly false propaganda. It's an attempt to negate the validity and factual historicity of Jewish nationhood in the land of Judea. And that will not stand.

#103

well how old are you?

peace?
that will never happen in my life time.

The term "Christian" comes from the Greek word for Moshiach or Messiah, which is "Christ." The word "Islam" comes from the root for peaceful submission. But the term "Jew" comes from JUDAH or JUDEA, a nation that existed up till 135 AD, when after its final brutal suppression - with the killing of 580,000 Jewish rebels and civilians according to the Roman historian Cassius Dio - had its name changed by the Emperor Hadrian, who remamed it from Judea to Palestina which formally ended all Jewish rights in the land. That was the official beginning of the exile according to Jewish tradition. So comparing the Jewish tribal religion to its more multinational offshoots is simply comparing apples and oranges.

#99

in other words, all that matters is that man Arabs/Muslims want war/terror without end by
demanding the creation of 57th Islamic country/23rd Arab country in addition to the 2 countries in Palestine (Israel, Jordan)
and calling for the destruction of Israel...

no thanks....

Peace is a much better alternative

As a kid I went to a elementary Yeshiva parochial school, and every morning pledged allegiance with my hand on my heart to "one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all." Why shouldn't Israeli Arab citizens not want to make a similar pledge before the flag of Israel? There are 22 Arab Muslim flags in other nearby countries they could choose instead if living a democratic Jewish state is irksome to them.

the name palestine goes back to roman times taken from the philistines, not that it matters all that matters is what the people want to be called now.

Nes, you write [@82]: "The U.S. is not a 'Christian' country, so certainly there should be no such loyalty oath here. Israel is a Jewish country, however...."
Today about 75% of citizens of the state of Israel are Jewish. About 75% of those in the US are Christian. The difference is in the legal structures of the two countries.
My point isn't about who's right, it's about freedom of speech. Why shouldn't a citizen of the state of Israel, who's lived there since birth, have the right to argue for a change in Israeli law? Or is the answer, "You can say whatever you want on this quesion, as long as you agree with me" ?

voter, josh
and that's what happens durning war. everything is a negotiation point to end the so no one wants to give an inch, even on the names of the nations.

#92

That is correct - before 1948 the Jewish run newspaper now known as the Jerusalem Post - (www.jpost.com)was formerly called the Palestine Post

The Jeiwsh National Fund ran a cmpaign called
the United Palestine Fund to support the Jewish community in Israel

http://www.geocities.com/moreprecious2004/dad-charity-palestine.jpg

Only after the Arab nations attacked Israel in the 1948 did Arabs in Israel start calling themselves "Palestinians" as a way to attack Israel politically.

Bit of a sham really - and any serious student of reality knows it.

A "palestinian" is anyone born in Israel or Jordan before they became countries, i.e. anyone born in the region of Palestine

There are Palestinian Jews, Muslims, Christians, Agnostics, and Atheists - &mabe even Scientologists.

In fact, a Jew who were expelled from Arab countries, in one of the frequent ethnic cleansings for Jews from Arab countries, and then came to pre-1948 Israel, is a an

*Arab Jewish Palestinian Israeli.*

sunny
a brighter day? is war without end a brighter day

Josh
sounds like you are mixing the arabs with the palestinians. israel has to make more than overtures to the palestinians. israel has to offer a viable state to the palestinians (not that joke from oslo!)
has israel been working with Abbas? have the rebuilt the economy of the west bank, have they closed any west bank settlements? or are they stoke the flames of war to the benefit of war profiteers?

And Josh @ 82,
A more accurate description of the problem is that the Arab Muslims called “Palestinians” feel a Jewish state (Israel) doesn’t have the right to exist in this region AND Jewish Israelis feel Arab Muslims do not have the right to exist in what is now Israel and to some extent Gaza and the West Bank. Feelings are mutual.

Thought that Mustafa's comments on the show were racially charged. Wish you would have a more moderate palestinian, muslim voice on the show.

#72 (Josh from Brooklyn),

Politics aside, to say there was no Palestine prior to 1948 is factually untrue. Perhaps you meant there was not a group of Muslims Arabs referring to themselves as “Palestinian” in the immediate vicinity of what is modern-day Israel. The Name Palestine has been used to describe this region for at least 150 years. I have a small collection of maps; one is a small steel engraving from 1832 of the region called “Palestine.” The British mandate deciding how the former Ottoman Empire would be controlled by Europe was the Mandate of Palestine. I’m sure there were people in the Ottoman Empire who insisted upon calling themselves Byzantines and people in British Palestine who considered themselves Ottomans.

An Israeli friend writes on the night of the election:

After an entire night of vote-counting and a nail-biting finish that has yet to come, one thing is clear about the Israeli elections: Israelis have abandoned the "peace-nowers" and their disastrous policies, policies that brought war and terror to unprecedented heights, leaving almost every family

in Israel a victim of its failed vision.

While the Kadima Party, headed by

Tzipi Livni, retained its electoral strength, its votes came from those who in the past voted for the Leftist labor party, once the largest party in Israel, now shrunk to a humiliating 13 seats, and the far-leftist Meretz, which has almost disappeared with only 3 members, taking away the tremendous influence it had in its hey day. Kadima's strength, ironically, is a sign of the Left's weakness. For voters to choose Kadima over Meretz, is a clear sign even Israel's Leftists are moving right.

The Likud, while at present a mandate less than Kadima, will, I expect, gain a few more seats when the soldiers votes come in, giving it a mandate or two more than Kadima, and making Benjamin Netanyahu the next Prime Minister of Israel.

Even if it doesn't, the Zionist, nationalist parties have a clear majority.

It is not feasible for Livni to put together a coalition with the parties elected on a nationalist platform- voters would feel absolutely betrayed if, for example, Avigdor Leiberman, head of the Yisrael Beitanu partry who got 15 seats, got into bed with Livni (politically, of course.)

Leiberman ran on the slogan: No Citizenship without Loyalty, an in-your-face challenge to Israeli Arabs who support Hamas call for the destruction of Israel

This is good news. And now we can all get some sleep and hope for a brighter day.

hjs,
i was pretty sure that Air America had taken over that station for a time. Perhaps they have returned.... but no one knows it yet. Some failed concepts all around I guess. Pity.

Good to hear from both Bhargouti and Klien. Unusual for WNYC to have someone like Klien though who is a fair pro Israel voice and a real counter part to the usual pro palestinian voices on the show such as Bhargouti and Rami Kuri etc.

It doesn't matter what the American's think. It matters what the Israelis think. The Israelis have recognised the Arab world for generations. They abided by the UN mandate. They made peace with Egypt in 1979. they have been making peace overtures for years with the Palestinians. especially the lopsided Arafat one. Hamas doesn't recognise Israel by fiat. Israel has normal relations with Egypt, Jordan and Turkey and negotiating with syria. Of course israel recognises the Arabs. The difference, palestinians don't.

To Taher,

If the meaning of "Mass Psychology of Fascism" is 'a comprehensive analysis a hardened and repressed character, incapable of understanding its desires apart from destruction and conquest' -- that completely describes the Arab mentality: people oppressed by their own leaders.

josh

reading some of the posts here clearly some pro-israel americans (and some isrealis) don't think the palestinians have a right to exist. it's hard when no one wants to go first isn't it.

Thanks for having Morton Klien on the show. He fairly characterized what is going on is Israel today. Your large Park Slope type audience may have difficulty with it but Morton and many of us are proud Jews. We will deal fairly with those who deal fairly with us. We will not back down to terrorists or their sympathizers whether in Gaza or on 4th Street.

Comments here and elsewhere usually observe that Israel may be wrong, but why don't the Arabs do better? This is just kicking the can down the road. Torah sez that just because you can't solve a problem doesn't mean you are exempted from trying.

ms Celia
it is on. and i don't know why u would call it "amateur radio" is it because they disagree with u?
odd

The U.S. is not a "Christian" country, so certainly there should be no such loyalty oath here. Israel is a Jewish country, however, one in the midst of 52 Muslim countries in the world. The oath proposed, whether you agree with it or not, was for loyalty to Israel, when the Israeli-Arab legislators were acting to undermine the very existence of Israel, and when Muslim countries act in the United Nations to attack the legitimacy of a Jewish country. Please don't talk about apartheid; Arab-Israelis have rights of citizenship.

of course I'm not calling for ethnic cleansing. I want a two state solution with equal partners. However, how is that going to happen? One half doesn't think the other half has the right to exist? How can you have one then?

josh
i know history.
both sides like to play this name game.
the arab speaking people living near Nablus, Ramallah, Jericho, east Jerusalem, Hebron and Gaza today are called Palestinians
I don't care what they were called 50 years ago or 500 years ago.
so childish and distracting. moving on.

on the other point why should they? they have a home land. are you also calling for ethnic cleansing?
2 states solution is going to happen. let's move forward.

I'm sorry what is happening to the Arabs, I really am. it is unconscionable. But the arabs have done nothing to make the israeli's trust that it won't lead to more bombing. there are two borders. Why doesn't Egypt open their border? That's where all the tunnels come from. its because Hamas would bomb Egypt. the Brotherhood is outlawed in Egypt, who funds Gaza. You don't think, they'd join forces?

his, just look up "Mass Psychology of Fascism" in google.

That land was taken because the Jews were attacked first. Now, what happens if you take land without provocation? I say anyone who criticises Israel should give their land back to Indians. Talk about apartied. if they arabs wanted their land back, why did they refuse barak's offer? 97% of Jordanian land. The Israeli's were even going to pay for a bridge to like the West bank and Gaza. All the Arabs do is bomb. If someone bombed your house, whould you open the door for them?

Another guy to read is the Israeli historian Benny Morris. Interesting, very interesting. He debunks a lot of Zionist myths though he hates Palestinians and thinks they should have been exterminated. Here again we are back to Nazi Germany.

I am little late to the party but thanks for having Morton Klien on the show. There are so few proud jews that get picked to represent us.

Commenters here who praise Morton Klein's views have so far avoided answering the question:
Would you sign an oath declaring loyalty to the United States as a Christian nation?
I certainly wouldn't, and I shouldn't lose the right to vote because of that. I recognize that there are very different arguments made as to why it's legitimate for Israel to be defined as a Jewish state-- but I think this question brings out the basic issue here, which is one of free speech.
One thing that got very little news coverage in the US was the arrest of hundreds of nonviolent Israeli anti-war protesters during the recent attack on Gaza. It is not only Arabs' freedom that is at stake here, but also dissenting Israelis.

Mr. 'hjs'
wbai?!
...I am not talking about amateur radio. (Does that station still even exist?)

Once again...great to hear a true pro jewish voice on WNYC for a real change of pace. Please continue to have him on.

Taher
can't read everything can u just cliff note it for me?

Sunny compares the Gaza checkpoints are "like the kind in every airport." In what airport are people made to wait for eight or ten hours in the hot sun, then told sorry, that's all for today, come back tomorrow?
Palestinians in need of medical attention have died because they were not allowed to cross (and because, thanks to the blockade of Gaza, they were unable to get the treatment they need at hoome). To compare this to an security line in a comfortable rich country's airport is absurd.

Hjs

first of all that land was never palestinian. The West bank was Jordan's, Gaza was Egypt. There were no "palestinian" until after 1948. The jews took the land for protection after 1967. The Jordanians refused to take the Palestinian's in as refugees, the same for Egypt. In peace negotiations, Israel offered Gaza as a peace offering. Egypt declined. Same with Jordan. why do you think that is? The palestinian's should really be mad at them. Why didn't Egypt open the Gaza border during the war?

brian, how can you invite such a despicable character to make the case for israel? klein blatantly lied and misrepresented facts, sounds driven by hatred and supremacism.

To those who speak of concessions Israel has made over the past two or so decades. Do not take my freedom away from me by force and expect praise and gratitude when my resistance forces you to return it. Do not take what was not yours to have and expect payment or negotiation for its return. Ransoming the peace, freedom, and livelihood of another at the cost of their humanity is not benevolence, it’s blackmail and slavery.

sunny
maybe u missed the show, give a listen. ethnic cleansing would be considered racist by most fair minded people.
part of me is glad mr klein was on today. this kind of hate (generated by americans, since israelis in polls support a 2 state solution) show why this war will never end

also mr klein said more than once we gave them this and that land. how can you give land to native people they were there first how can you "give them" 25% of what they had and think of yourself as a hero.

Sunny, every Jew should feel the prick of conscience when he or she sees injustice being done. We know that when someone in our own family has done something wrong, we don't support them blindly. We still love them, we want to help them, but we can't continue their delusions that they are right and blameless.

his,
deeper then that. I suggest you read the “The Mass Psychology of Fascism’ by Wilhelm Reich. An extremely enlightening book by a brilliant psychoanalyst from Austria.

Finally, someone like Morton Klein gets a chance to speak some truth to a misinformed audience. Thanks. But I see from these comments that the lies persist. Please have Mort and others like him more often.

Sunny: See Bill's comment. Also, if Klein is so grossly misrepresenting history, while seemingly giddy at the idea of the younger generation on Israelis polling as even less interested in peace than the current ruling generation, it's pretty reasonable to conclude he's more interested in continuing oppression [based on race, and therefore, by definition, "racist"] than he is in peace. That is, if you're capable of putting all those elements together in your mind. Like Bill, I'm not optimistic on that front.

There is nothing wrong with being pro-israeli, I am, but they have been vilified anybody who supports them has been called a racist. I believe in a two state solution, I believe that the palesinian's do have a right to equality for simply being human. The fact is, the arabs do not feel the same way. israel gives $25 million a year to the PA. they need the PA to succeed for a peace resolution. proof they want one. But all Arabs do is bomb them. israel has a right to fight back. But because its seen as unequal power, if you're pro-Israeli you're a racist. Klein might be a racist, but that doesn't mean american jews or AIPAC should be demonised because of bias for the paleastinians

#57

it's so self-evident that you still can't even describe it

lol

contrast this with all the blatant anti-Semites who use the cover of being anti-Zionists

Lee from Queens, unfortunately the American taxpayer has been paying dictators, murders, child killers and human rights abuser for decades. And sadly some of our fellow citizens are more then glad to do so.

I wonder if blacks in South Africa had to sign loyalty oath to the apartheid regime.

#50 -
Well Said - J Street represents a minority of a minority of far left Jews in the US who support Palestinians against Israel.

The have no real constituency in the US and are laughed at in Israel.

J-Street represents the tiny group of American Jews are bullied so much by some of their anti-Israel "friends" that have joined the other side, but speak in a phony language of pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian.

Interesting how they have been firmly criticized even by Rabbi Eric Yoffe - a Refrom Jewish leader and dove with respect to Israeli politics.

But those with an anti-Israel agenda foam in the mouth over J-Street types...

#35 and #37 :loyalty oath, and indigenous people?

Give me a break. They've been there 1,000 years.

We were there 2,500 years ago...

let's not have a shouting match. WE BOTH have a deed to the land.

I am willing to share, but this (as usual), shows how the ARABS and Palestinians

HAVE NO DESIRE FOR PEACE, have no desire
EXCEPT to throw all the jews into the sea...

His racism is pretty self-evident, Sunny, and people here probably aren't very interested in making the effort to present an argument that you don't appear to have much interest in considering.

Thanks Sunny for your spot on comments.

Sunny from Harlem: You failed to read my post.

I didn't discredit Mr. Klein because of the way he speaks - I discredited him because he is a Pro-Israel American, and not an ISRAELI.

Gamarnu.

Leo....please! WNYC is the most pro palestinian channel on the radio. Brian does strive to be fair although you are quite biased.

I still haven't seen one person provide a shred of evidence that Mort Klein is a racist.

I suppose it's easier to smear people and shut down criticism of Arabs with phony claims of racism than actually defend the Palestinian regime of terror, hatred and incitement.

Quite understandable.

will the boards be shut down today after the show?

Taher
do u mean because so many israeli came from that 1920's 1930' pro nationalist european mindset?

To the fans of jstreet, Bargouti was on the show representing your voice.

Bargouti's threats that "the window of 2 states closing down" is Palistinian-speak for more terror

Brian, I believe that in your questioning of Mr. Barghouthi you are being one-sided and unfair and giving credence to the racist hate and misinformation of Mr. Klein.

Is this related to the sources of funding for WNYC?

Bargouti is a phony

1. He claims Israel has not left Gaza

Israel kicked out 7,000 Jews from Gaza and gave it away to the Arabs who have started rocketed the next day

2. He whines about checkpoints - like the kind in every airport

perhaps if Arabs would stop butchering Israeli civilians of all religions there would be no need for checkpoints

untill then, there should be more checkpoints

3. The UN has recently stopped giving aid and supplies to Hamas because the are just as corrupt and theiving as Fatah

But Barghouti shills the standard Arab propaganda line about Gaza being under seige and occupied etc.. even after it was given away by Israel

In fact, Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups seem to be quite successful at importing all the rockets and weapons the want through the tunnells - some siege.

Instead it's just a question of Arab priorities - building civil society or creating another terrorist state...

it's clear, based on Palestinian activities in Gaza and Judea and Samaria what theie priorities are -- destroying Israel not building peaceful coexistence

Oh, by the way, if we want to really degenerate into a discussion about the war, look here:

http://markbnj.blogspot.com/2009/01/mideast-on-fire-hamas-cant-play-honest.html

This is a video showing how hamas booby-trapped a school, complete with weapons and bombs, and ran a fuse to the zoo that was next door to it.

I want to have peace with someone who can (if not love me), can at least not try and kill me.

AND it MUST ONLY have a two state solution.

ISRAEL does not practice apartheid.

And insinuating that we do does NOT forward the PEACE PROCESS..

Accept the 1948 2 state solution.

and then we can have peace.

and ZOA is NOT a mainstream organization...

and NEITHER is HAMAS

How about Rabbis Eric Yoffie or David Saperstein? The Reform Movement has a whole lot more support in this country than the ZOA.

As a Jewish person, I am so tired of having extremist zionists like Mr. Klein always representing the "pro-Israel" point of view. And really, listening to Mr Klein defending the views of a facist like Avigdor Lieberman, almost without contradiction by Brian, is deeply unproductive. Israel has got to stop the settlements in the west bank, and end the Gaza blockade. Until then, extremism and violence by some Palestinians will not cease, it will only grow, as evidenced by the surge toward Hamas as a result of Israel's recent assault in Gaza.

The settlement expansion is a valid point. However it still does not justify launching rockets. Ariel Sharon was an original creator of them. However, during peace talks, he not only halted them, but actually pulled some out, causing a huge rift in Israeli society. It was a good faith effort that was rebuffed with violence.

Mustafa is a sensible man. It is just deplorable how extremist Jews continue to insult and demoralize law abiding Palestinians. THe policies have been racist and discriminatory and are meant to demoralize Palestinians and to force them out to other countries. It is just shameful that we as American Taxpayers are paying for such crimes and human rights violations.

I am an American disabled vet, who lived in Palestine as a university professor for a year. What this man Mr. Klein saying is just so disgustingly hate filled, false, one sided, and criminally disloyal to the USA. It is disinformation. Anyone who has never lived in Palestine under occupation cannot imagine how badly treated Palestinians are by Israel. Food is embargoed. Education is embargoed. Medical care is embargoed and ordinary Palestinians cannot go anywhere without being stopped by Israeli soldiers. Travel is embargoed. 90% of settlement land according to its own official figures are on land taken away from Palestinian owners against Israel's own rules regulations and laws and constitution: that is Israel's own figures published in Haaretz.

Mr. Klein makes up facts and figures totally out of the air. Even Hamas has agreed to Israeli security is Israel stopped the embargoes against the Palestinian people.

What Israel has done is criminal by any measure. And Israel has not contributed to USA security but actually spies on us. And works openly against USA security.

mark
i asked u the other day
why should the fate of the palestinians be linked to the wishes of the 21 arab dictatorships?
would you think it makes sense for the every english speaking country to be held accountable for the actions of the USA?

Does the good doctor Mustafa have a favorite way of using Palestinian children as bullet stoppers?

Such a shame that Jews are asked to love Palestinian children more then a Palestinian mother.

Wow! WNYC had a pro jewish commentator on the show in Morton Klien!! This is a water shed moment. Thank you for bringing in this jewish mainstream voice. Brian you do have the most balanced show on this channel. Now if we can just spread this fairness to the other shows.....

Loyalty oath? Wouldn't it just be easier to have Israeli Arabs wear pink armbands? The irony of their warped ideas seems to be completely lost on people like Mr. Klein and Mr. Lieberman.

Peace will never come to the Middle East if people like this are in power -- on the Israeli side or the Arab side. At what point do the citizens of the region get fed up with strife, and seek a middle path?

HEY. if Barghouthi starts to complain about the 1947 borders, HALF of that land is now in JORDAN which annexed the land.

OK, lets REOPEN the 1948 border discusssion Mr. Barghouthi.

Now you are on the record as saying you AGREE we should re-visit the 1948 borders.

And there were no 1947 borders, ENGLAND administered the Palestinian Mandate (poorly, I'd say) in 1947..

How can you expect indigenous people to sign loyalty oaths to people who showed up ans set up government structures three generations ago?

Should Americans of European descent expect Native Americans to sign loyalty oaths? Do you honestly believe every last Native American would not resist such an oath?

If Morton Klein is so enthusiastic about how Israel should be run, perhaps he should serve with the Israeli army, and in the meantime, you could put a real Israeli on the radio to talk about this issue. There are a great many Israelis including those who have fulfilled their national service who are in complete opposition of Klein's ridiculous, fatuous and heinous stance. The idea of Palestinians signing a loyalty agreement and thus earning the right to vote is the most outrageous thing I've heard on the issue. Thank goodness for the Palestinian guest who is currently speaking.

Interesting to see 1 the comments making fun of Mr. Klein's speech defect

that's a really solid argument, lol

secondly, the posters here whining about wanting an Israeli, not only a pro-Israel American sound rather hollow

What ou really mean is you want a lefitst or anti-Israel Israeli vs. a pro-Israel American

I'd like some hard evidence that Klein is a racist.

Otherwise, I'll just assume it's another example of censorship - sliming someone with a phony accusation because you disagree with him

Please forgive this guy for his verbal ticks, I’m sure he cannot help it. His policies, however, are far more irksome. The one thing he does not seem to understand is Arab Israelis are not afforded the same rights and responsibilities as Jewish Israelis. And regardless of all of the “concessions” he throws out that Jews have made, the one thing Jewish Israelis still expect of the Palestinians and Arabs in Israel is full and unquestioned submission, humiliation, and defenselessness with them continuing to be at the whim and mercy of people who think of them as second class human beings. To compare the Israel’s fallacious form of democracy with the United States of America is repugnant. Unless you mean pre-1960s America.

Someone who holds up a sign saying "I love Al Quaeda" would probably start a riot and might be prosecutable as "incitement to riot"; but it doesn't preclude citizenship and right to vote. Mr. Klein's view of democracy is a very particular one.

I am a proud Zoinist, but I am a progressive Zionist. Mr. Klein doesnt speak for me!!!!
Leiberman is disgusting and he has no place in the government, an open racist has no place in Israeli government.

If the Israeli's have a problem with Arab politicians then they should vote them out of office NOT for them to take an oath...that is how a proper democracy works.

Methinks that Mr. Barghouthi speaks with a forked tongue.

When the Arab nations accept the 1948 UN TWO state solution, the problems will be entirely over.

and then we can talk about land.

until then he is interested in OPRESSING the jews, despite his claiming that Israelis are oppressing the palestinians

As a Jew, I'm feeling like it's not fair that you have this Klein guy representing the Jewish perspective. He is clearly a right-wing zealot, preaching fascism. Getting people to sign loyalty oaths is not something one does in a democracy. Barbuti is a moderate, Klein is an extremist, and you're making it seem as if this is a fair argument. Please find a more moderate Israeli/Jewish guest! Half the country voted for Tzipi, anyway...

Amnesty International reported yesterday that Hamas is busy killing scores of Palestinians for “collaboration.” Shucks, signing a loyalty oath may have been a more human response!

Palestinians kill their own children and now adults. When will Palestinians stop killing themselves?

Here is the fact of the situation. Hamas does not recogonise Israel's right to exist. How can you negotiate a two state solution with someone who doesn't even believe you have a right to one of the states? Israel has time and time again offered peace solutions, the Palestinians respond with rockets. they have never offered any plan themselves or even a counter-offer. Bibi and the right have won because Jews are fed-up with giving and getting nothing back. They offered 97% of the West bank and all of Gaza. The Palestinian's response was the second intifada. That was a Labour government. Hamas' actions have made it more difficult for themselves in achieving peace. The Israeli elections are a direct result of self-preservation and fear.

I appreciate you having Morton Klien on the show for a fair pro-Israel view. Thanks for having him on the show.

This guy is crazy!!. Arabs in Israel are 'loyal' to Israel. They have a right to criticize the abuses of the Israeli government. Forcing people to sign an oath of 'loyalty' is sick. He is demanding that people sign an oath to a gov't and not question the gov'ts policy and actions.

Stop blaming the Arabs for the fanatical view of extremes Jews - These people are no different from extreme Muslims

This is a serious question:

How is saying "Israel as a Jewish state" different from "South Africa as a White state"? How is that not inherently an unjust state?

Do Jews have CONSTITUTIONALLY rights that non-Jews do not have? If so, then is that not the source of the problem?

Should the United States institute a policy where minorities have to take an oath swearing loyalty to the United States as a White, Christian State?

re [4] I agree 100% with Beth. Why don't you bring on someone from J Street?

Morton Klein mentioned that Palestinians receive US tax-payers money. How much of the US tax-payer money Israel receives and how much goes to the Palestinians?

I don't know who this guy is - but he's making one really good point,

What have the Arabs in Israel done for peaceful coexistence besides:

1. incitement to hatred

2. butchering of civilians

3. demanding concessions from Israel

4. killing each other - Hamas has executed several dozen Gazans in the past few weeks extra-judicially

I would not blame Israelis for saing enough concessions - 15 years of giving away for nothing

1. Giving away all Gaza
2. Kicking 7,000 Jews out of their homes
3. Giving away parts of Judea and Samaria

peace for peace

not land for peace

Would Mr. Klein sign a loyalty oath to support the Christian United States of America?

Judean Summaria?

This guy is not entirely familiar with reality, it seems.

Dan

kudos to Brian and the producers for having Barghouti on the show!

Why would NPR have a racist like Morton Klein on the show? Is David Duke next? Giving a platform to such extremists only furthers the hate and ensures peace will not happen.

Yes, I would much rather hear a report from an Israeli rather than a pro-Israel American.

As much as I don't agree with Mr. Klein's POV, I can't stand his speaking. I don't know if he has a speaking impediment, but it's horribly interfering whether I like the message or not.

Mustafa said the following on Feb 9th:

"The Israeli elections held tomorrow will no doubt confirm that a transformation has taken place in the Israeli society, and will confirm their extremist apartheid attitudes which are worse than even those that prevailed in South Africa."

Strong language. Does Mustafa support the official Palestinian position of using children as human shields?

I hear that the recent missiles from Hamas had to do with border-blocking. Why not ask this guy why Isreal will not open the borders in exchange to stop the missiles?

Brian,

Why do you think this man is helpful to the discussion? He's a walking compendium of extremist zionist rhetoric. You don't challenge any of his basic premises about first principles. Can you at least get a discussion with someone who lives in Isreal to present the Israeli "opinion."

Klein: "...threw Jews out of their homes"...after enticing them to move to disputed areas with tax-free housing there. Huh. What did you think was going to happen?

We give some money to the Palestinian Authority; we give ten million dollars EVERY DAY in aid to Israel, and that's not counting the loans we give them (and then always forgive the debt on, every year). That might be perfectly appropriate, but someone who lies about it is clearly not interested in peace. Is there a point to interviewing this crazy man?

can you ask your guest about the new info about a database found that Iseral has built illegally without proper permits on private Palestinins land

Yay for JStreet. Have they ever been on the show?

The ONLY solution to the problem is for acceptance of the FIRST UN Resolution of 1948, declaring a Jewish state and a Arab (palestinian) state.

Until ALL the arab countries accept the formation of the state of israel, it will never be peace.

Look HERE
http://markbnj.blogspot.com/2008/06/mideast-ultimate-peace-plan.html

Over a year ago...

What about the fact that the Israeli state has turned increasingly toward the security and defense sector of the economy and balkanizing of their settlements? The boom in Israeli security companies combined with the influx of Russian immigrants has simultaneously driven the Palestinians deeper into poverty while increasing the barriers toward physical movement? The hawkish Likud uses war to justify its 'security bubble' in the economy. In this formulation, 'terrorism' circularly defined.

I am a huge fan of the Brian Lehrer show, but I can't understand why over and over again, Mr. Lehrer invites extreme right-wing politicians to represent the pro-Israel voice. Morton Klein does not speak for the mainstream American Jewish society. If you want to invite him, it is unethical not to also invite somebody from the pro-Israel left wing, like a representative from Brit Tzedek v'Shalom or JStreet.

Brian,

The Israel right supports a two state solution, the Palestinian right (Hamas) supports genocide. The Hamas charter states that every Jew, worldwide, must be killed.

Why are Palestinian goals so DISPROPRTIONALLY violent?

could we please hear from real israelis some time instead of proisrael american warmongers want-to-be's

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