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You all know what? We are at war and in eight years how many of you sent packages to our troops? You are all like children--I want, I want, I want! Selfish, self-serving and irresponsible. That goes for the media and NPR too.
Run a drive for the soldiers every month. Encourage the people to GIVE to our men and women and support our troops--that'll give them a boost of confidence to accomplish anything.
Look at how the country united behind our troops during WW II--no one wanted to go there either! But if it weren't for us . . .

" I am a reformed left winger who knows some of these players personally and now knows better. I know all the tricks of the trade having worked in political campaigns since HHH v. Nixon."

Explains a lot. HHH became quite the clever snark on his block in later years.

Agree w 19. Said same 9/12/01.

calls
oh no! u're calling me dogmatic? I had to look it up to make sure I knew the word. thanks for the laugh, u birthers can be SO FUNNY!
tongue in cheek, you're not by the way. hateful maybe, just greedy, yes.
"Obama hadn’t done anything or been anywhere when he was elected." another birther lie. talk about your side not mine.
yea why riot when u can have government cheese. I know about Nixon's liberal record, (by the way all he did was sign bills that came out of congress to earn that title) BUT he was a crock that was my point. we could have done without him.
I guess that's your fantasy about HRC but she would never run against him and would never win if she tried that, but keep hope alive. when the economy turns BHO will have his second term. but depends who runs I guess. I'm hoping for cheney or palin. someone like mitt would have an easier time to fool the fools

hjs - you are more dogmatic then I thought. Many of my posts are "tongue in cheek." I am a reformed left winger who knows some of these players personally and now knows better. I know all the tricks of the trade having worked in political campaigns since HHH v. Nixon. I also worked in active combat zones, so I understand the realities of such.

Obama hadn’t done anything or been anywhere when he was elected. He voted present on any issue he thought might hurt him, with very few exceptions. He hasn’t had to make a tough decision in his life until now, except perhaps to marry Michelle so he could be elected outside of San Francisco or Greenwich Village.

As to Nixon, he was more liberal then many Dems today. He personally extended the great society well beyond JFK or LBJ, probably to buy social peace during the bad old days of urban riots when local, state and the federal Gov’ts had to call out troops to suppress looting, arson and murdering by America’s marauding Afro-American population.

Our dear leader is a novice parading around as a know-it-all. He thought he could do it, but I am sure that late at night, when he reaches for his last cigarette of the day, he is sweating bullets and wondering how he’s going to keep from soiling himself.

Hillary is a pragmatist and will jump ship whether Obama has a moderately failed Presidency or the massive failure he is now on track for.

NEWEST SURGE

We've had enough

Vietnams--

Drop the bombast,

Not the bombs.

NIXON!! we would have been better off if he'd stayed a "has been" (and didn't Cheney work for nixon. the gift that keeps giving.)
talking about mistakes I don't think about palin's potential strength. she's a mess and I DON'T doubt my fellow americans can make the same mistakes they did in 2000 & 2004, but she drives moderates out of the party every time she opens her mouth, so BRING IT ON! (americans like their abortions and sex on tv etc)
HRC won't split, clearly u don't understand much about politics, but I hope she'll run in 2016. let BHO clean up bush's mess, let hillary rebuilt a nation suffering from 30 years of reaganism. as the poor get poorer (what middle class) you rich kids will have trouble selling your american dream. so raise our taxes but don't touch my services!

I'll say it again. Our presidents are just the p.r. face of the C.I.A. and The Pentagon -under the status quo-.

Oh, hold on. I thought it was "Groundhog Day" when i heard that sh_t. :)

hjs - Perhaps. I like Palin as a person and think she would have made a great VP. She will be a prominent player in 2010 and will help many Congressional candidates raise money and win in that comeback year.

By doing what Nixon did in 1966 (it helped him win in 1968) - build grass roots support among Congressmen and women, she might be stronger then you think. Nixon was a has-been who came back. We’ll see if it works for a very popular “never-was” as well. She’s going to have a ton of money in her SarahPAC and she’s going to use it to defeat Blue Dog Dems.

As to a Repub civil war, I doubt it. They are more practical then the Dems and more adult. Many hated McCain but rallied round him. I am still convinced that he would have one if he could have spent even $50 -100 mil more then the $84 mil of public funds. Obama spent $800 mil on the table (much of it still unaccounted for) and probably another $100 - 200 mil under the table (SEIU, ACORN, etc).

Oh, well as my old Grand-Pappy, “Jebediah Sees’em” used to say, "no point in crying over spilt water under the bridge that left the station and sailed." Grandpas was a big Yogi Berra and Norm Crosby fan.

I think it’s just as likely that there will be a Democrat civil war. I really think Hillary is going to split after the 2010 election and go rogue and medieval on Obama’s behind.

Calls'em 83
that's fair. but Brian and Lenny are lovers not fighters.

Calls'em 84
don't count your chickens yet. moderate republicats might have won in VA and NJ (but only because of bush's recession.) the GOP is still very divided (their civil war is just beginning) and if some still think palin is the future, there will soon be no more GOP.
the party of NO is not in touch with what americans want. your "basic small town values" don't work in the modern 21st world we live in, we aren't in the 1950s.
what I'm ready for is a new party to replace the GOP. people like snow lieberman spector and the blue dogs in the center so moderate have some where to go (out of a more progressive democratic party) then palin rush and the gop could join the wig party in the dustbin

hjs - I am thinking of running for Congress in 2010. It will be a great year for "house cleaning." I might even come back to NY and try to take out some of the local trash. Perhaps that heavy drinking woman in central Nassau can finally be replaced.

The Republicans just won in Nassau County as well as in Westchester Cty. I'm sure WNYC/NPR isn't going to tell you that, or even beyond conservative wins in VA and NJ, there were strong showings for local and state Republican recovery around the country in areas that voted for Obama once, but will not again. That's why the Blue Dog Dems are very, very afraid.

hjs - I would like to see Brian and Lenny run as a team for the Dems against Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity for the Repubs.

On a serious note there are very few Dems or Repubs with the credentials, integrity and experience to be President.

Perhaps someone like John Thune from South Dakota. While he doesn’t have foreign policy experience, neither did Bill Clinton.

I think we need to return to some basic small town values, now that we have seen how quickly and incompetently the corrupt big city Harvard red diaper baby egg-heads have messed up.

Moderator
i've seen it here before.
all u have to do is go to the comment in question and say this was removed (and maybe why) and leave the space intact. guess it's a little bit more work.
thanks, i know we make your life harder

See you folks soon. I’v got get out of the street and go to Lenard Lopate Upper West side Victorian dimly lit parlor.

Would your guests please comment on the two scenarios:

After 18 months,the taliban take over afghanistan followed by the overun of pakistan by the al Qaeda versus,

pulling out now with the possibility that the so called illiterates wake up and realize that the free lunch is over and surprise us all by taking over their own country.

Both scenarios will still require our own efforts to secure our country and you will save untold lives and resources and, we dont have to leave all the weapons behind to use against us if another dodo like bush comes along.

[[Note from Moderator: Voter, HJS, and others: Sadly, our system doesn't let us maintain the sequence when removing a comment so, yes, the numbering does get altered. Best bet is, when responding to a post, to refer to them by their title or to quote the original post rather than by number. That should do the trick. Thanks,
-BL Show-]]

74] bernard joseph

"what is the worst case scenario if we completely pull out immediately?" 9/11/2012

ps
how about ending the censorship policy except in cases of hate speech. I can take care of myself if someone calls me names

Voter 76
i agree. the moderator should respect the board! we are fans and members too.

on the other hand, kittens kill mice and that's not fair to rodents!

Moderator:
When you remove/redact comments, could it be done similar to the NYT’s method of replacing the removed comment with a “removed for content blah blah blah” note but keeping the sequence intact. It’s a little strange when someone calls “#16” a psychopath when all “#16” said is “I like kittens”
Thanks.

[66] his from 11211. True. The nation elects candidates from 2 parties whose philosophies are the same. That is, who can give the candidate more money to have a career and a campaign. To keep his/her job the politician moves with the money. No money no honey. So we elect the chosen. An interesting form of democracy.

Taher, yes, sadly- you're probably right.
but i still don't understand why this conversation is not happening in this country-on the news or in print media.
what is the worst case scenario if we completely pull out immediately?
it is time for aggressive isolationism.

70] the truth!!
maybe they just hate BHO or all dems. or maybe it's their money they love more than their country or their follow americans (and themselves)
BUT i still have hope for prez HRC, obama supports her maybe u should too and let go of the hate??

The one good thing Obama did in his speech was to verbally join the "9-12" movement as he called on America to return to the way they felt on the day after 9-11.

Has he been listening to Glenn Beck, while his handlers are out of the room?

Is Obama going rogue? What's next, returning his Noble Peace prize because he just escalated a major war? Or is he going to tell the one world government folks in Denmark that global warming is now a proven fraud?

He will say and do anything to get a second term, so he can say and do anything he wants.

Call em is NOT going to answer that question for you HJZ. Because his criticism is not toward the president/white house general but specifically based in his hatred for the current President Obama.

Hilary Clinton puhleese!

[64] bernard joseph from Brooklyn, there is a lot vested in continuing this war. Politician need their careers and gifts, military contractors need their contracts, all wing think-tanks need their empty head pundits.
There is money to be had here. More war, war forever.
Then bankruptcy.

[[Moderator Writes: We've removed a few comments. Please remember the WNYC posting policy - keep it civil, productive and try to refrain from name-calling. Thanks!
-BL Show-]]

Calls'em
are you running?
if there was an election tomorrow who would you vote for.
it's not that hard a question.

61 Taher from Croton on Hudson

there is no "political class" we elect our leaders in this country. we are at fault. we are bush. we have to look in the mirror and blame us.

hjs - at this point you and I could do a better job then Obama. Even the guy from Brooklyn, who posts under several names, might do better. We have more honesty and integrity then all the professional pols in DC from all the parties.

can someone tell me why we can't just leave afghanistan? i mean, LEAVE. every soldier out immediately. what is everyone so afraid of?

Calls'em
who should be the next prez!

[53] hjs from 11211, No can save us. The American political class is bought and sold by the highest bidder. It is corrupt, incompetent and dysfunctional.

PS - Nice waste of taxpayer dollars having the Bama fly up to West Point to use it as a back drop for his banal campaign style speech. He does this all the time. He had the taxpayers build a temporary pavilion for his party last week for the Indian PM, now made famous by the crashers, who were actually PLO supporting acquaintances of the Bama and his some of his very close PLO supporting friends.

Nice touch that he referenced his now despicable midnight photo op at Dover to view our honored dead; a trip he made for the sole purpose of referencing that dirty deed a few weeks later when the ditherer finally made his half-baked "decision" speech.

As I told you folks over a year ago - this “wanta'be emperor” has no clothes and little common sense as well. But then again, anyone who believes in the failed and murderous ideology of Maoism is an idiot, aren't they?

#52 (Mike), I agree with you 100%, except one thing... The so-called Liberal media is a myth. Liberal media is nothing more than a boogeyman created by the political Right.

Leonardo, That's only half true. No one who was against the war in the first place, or worried about the costs, has changed their minds. But the situation has changed since Bush invaded Iraq for no reason and drove our economy over a cliff. We're willing to give Obama a little leeway.

Brian

I am not sure why you mentioned "efficiency" in terms of the cost of the war. Though Mr. Obama mentioned limits on the total amount to be spent, I heard nothing (nor saw in the transcript) that indicated spending that amount efficiently.

For everyone who wants the soldiers home now but hates Obama setting deadlines for withdrawal, pending conditions in the field—a concept I still can’t get my head around—how about this: Bring everyone home now, let Afghanistan go to definite s**t dragging Pakistan along with it and live in the fantasy land without consequence or care that we live in between the recession of the early ‘90s and recession of the late aught’s, then blame Obama for 9/11 2.0 should it happen and the recession of 2020 when it happens.
Oh, and for the people who want details, details, details.... So setting a possible date for withdrawl helps the terrorists, but laying out battle plans to help you be an armchair general is "a ok"? Stupidity.

Mike you could use the same argument to the people who were against the war under bush.

Thats the problem people only think along party lines.

calls'

"this Prez and the Dems are dangerous incompetents and ideologues casually and destructively slumming in a dangerous world that needs serious and experienced adults to make difficult decisions"
the same could be said of bush. he failed before obama got the job.
who do u think should be the next prez. who can save us?

How is it that all the people who supported this war under Bush are now against it?

How is it that people who said that it was unpatriotic to criticize a president when he was at war, now have nothing but criticism and offer no support?

How were all the supporters of Bush so enthusiastic and crazy when he charged up trillions in deficit, but now they scream that we're paying too much?

Why does the so-called "liberal" press let these Right Wing crazies get away with it?

Ryan
love it!

Voter from Brooklyn[45]:
"Troops" covers soldiers, sailors, marines, members of the air force, etc.

Ryan [37] I recently (last week?) saw on RAI, the Italian News Station where the Italian troops were attempting to get the poppy farmers to change their crop to crocus for saffron production. Not a bad idea since with all that available saffron around might lower the price a bit at least since it's the plucking of the stigmas is what makes the price forbidden to most.

Breaking news from the European press - the Cadets were basically "ordered" to give the Bama an enthusiastic response. As the TV cameras panned over them, they looked bored and disbelieving - especially the Cadets of "color."

Having known many West Point grads over the years, I am sure many sat there thinking, "this guy is going to get us killed and for nothing." And that after 92 days of dithering.

Re: a "timeline" for withdrawal - So what if Taliban lays low for 18 months? Maybe the population will get used to peace and push back when they return to terrorize the population.

I am Dad of '06 US Naval Academy (Annapolis) graduate, a Surface Warefare Officer (SWO), transferred to SEALs and currently in SEAL Qualification Training (SQT); and '09 USNA grad, currently deployed on a destroyer in the Indian Ocean. Obama's speech last night was essentially more of his campaigning talk with no real details. Trust in Petraus, Odierno, McCrystal, and Mullens, as they are in the know and will proceed as is needed. The situation in Afghanistan/Pakistan is frought with complications and needs to be handled as best as possible, but our forces need to be supplied and supported as is appropriate for mission effectiveness.

The whole discussion over cost is duplicitious. In light of the amount of money that is spent on the various social programs, the spending on Afghanistan is relatively insignificant. However, the politicians seem more willing to cut off funding for the military than social welfare.

Please stop saying “troops” and start using soldiers!
Saying a “troop” gets paid $30,000/year is like saying a platoon gets paid $30,000/year. (Even though there are more than one platoon in a single troop)
Imagine this conversation: “How was that dance troop you went to go see last night” “Oh, he was great!”
It sounds silly, lazy, and ignorant.

In FDR's time and LBJ's times, the US also had the draft. Some, like Charlie Rangel, have argued we should re-institute the draft to test just how great is our resolved to bomb people worldwide.

The USSR lost the Cold War because they went bankrupt, in part because of all the money they spent in Afghanistan...

Money does matter.

Why isn't China committing troops since they are really the economic beneficiaries of this war?

Wars cannot be switched on and off by those who start them War make their own momentum and consequences that are often not for seen. It looks like we are in for a historic lesson. And the price paid will be generational and high.

FYI: military monthly pay chart for 2009.

http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables.html

To Truth fm Bklyn - this Prez and the Dems are dangerous incompetents and ideologues casually and destructively slumming in a dangerous world that needs serious and experienced adults to make difficult decisions quickly and without regret. That includes “lighting up” the enemy where and when we find them without consideration of collateral damage. We killed millions of Vietnamese and 40 years later we are friends and there are very little hard feelings left. PS - how are the folks back in VA?

Has anyone considered encouraging afghan poppy, selling it to the chinese again, paying for the war and reversing our debt to them through opium addiction?

Let William Crystal [sp?] and the other neo-cons pay the taxes for these wars, after all they're the ones who want them!

Obama, my favorite president, proved he's a Bush-like political animal. He has no solutions other that McChrystal's failed "hot-buttin words pressing." When Soviets left there was no order in region. Now there is the SHANGHAI COOPERATIVE ACCORD (RUSSIA, CHINA, IRAN, INDIA, PAKISTAN, MONGOLIA, ALL THE "STANS" AROUND AFGHANISTAN. They don't want Taliban in control either. Let them take care of all this while we focus on protecting the homeland. 9/11 would never have happened if pilot's cabin were impenetrable. So Taliban is not the problem. Let Afghans be Afghans and pull out our incompetent generals. Bring mom and dad soldiers home to defend us.

Does the one billion dollars per 1,000 troops figure include VA health care and other benefits that the troops and their families will need when they return home for the rest of their lives?

they say when we "announce the drawdown date" the enemy will just wait us out. GOOD maybe that will give the afghan government the time they need to stand up, if they plan on governing their country.

i can't understand the logic here. if our goal is to hinder al quaeda then rebuilding and hoping to transform a society that doesn't have the ability to change or the desire to change is a moronic plan.
it sounds harsh, but who cares what happens to afghanistan? if the taliban takes over then so be it. if we stay, al quaeda will still be all over the world! it so shortsighted and ignorant to think that alquaeda has some geopgraphical base- that's the whole idea....they're are international and mobile. can't anyone see this???
our country is coming apart at home and we have NO business attempting to rebuild another country. i'm offended and i want my vote back.

Let's open up to Cuba, but perpetuate the hypocrisy of the embargo.

Let ordinary Iranians choose their own destiny, but let's threaten to punish them with sanctions for their leaders' bellicose callousness.

Let's stand up to Israel and support Palestinians, but let's still give Israel military and economic aid.

Let's stymie Al-Qaeda recruiting by assuring the Muslim world that we're not at war with them, but let's continue to rack up collateral damage in Muslim countries.

Yeah, I know he's light years more evolved then Dubya, but I still hoped that he wouldn't be another Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, or Clinton who genuinely want peace and brotherhood but still find only "gun boat", "big stick" and (how did #5 Sir Jimbob put it) "military industrial complex" solutions.

So sick of this BS.

The US left Vietnam, and Vietnam survived.
The rest of Asia did not fall to Communism.

Thirty-five years on, the Soviet Union is no more, and China and Vietnam are moving toward capitalist economies.

the truth!! from BKNY
calls'em is a professional obama hater

the pres could have reframed the issue to get uws out now. concentrate on Pakistan where the enemy actually lives.

Here is an option: national bankruptcy. Default on the debit to China.

obama's speech is like every other speech he has given, filled with generalities, and to me it sounded a lot like the surge speech that bush gave a while back.

Too much wiggle room in there for me

Political move? I guess Bush raising the terror alert right before the election doesn't qualify for something like that.

Give me a break. Obama said he'd get us out of Afghanistan, and now he's trying to do it.

Another great answer! We keep behaving as if the Taliban are superhuman! We can not bring peace to the middle east because we want it very badly!

Damned if you do, damned if you dont now the republican war mongers got what they wanted, so now they focus on the timeline to take issue with! Typical!

Tonky
"bring our boys home."
and the females serving? keep them there?

Isn't the real battlefield in Pakistan?

If the consequences will be so terrible if the US leaves, why is it that the rest of the world is not willing to commit more troops to this effort?

Why is the vast, vast majority of this effort falling on the shoulders of the US?

He talked about adding troops but what about the 'private contractors' mercenaires that are in the region. How many are in afghanistan? and how many more will be sent.

In Iraq there were as many mercenaries as troops. He was very open about many things including the issues with Pakistan but no politician ever talks about the private contractors. Why?

After we bomb the hell of Afghanistan and shoot them up, what the hell is going to be left of this country and its people?

My motto is rebuild Detroit, forget Afghanistan. So I'm amazed that Obama was able to escalate and end the war at the same time. So I'm a little confused, but I think I'm half-way happy.

What would have prevented 9/11? Better Locks on cockpit doors.

Let's leave that dusty wasteland to its own devices and bring our boys home.

Calls em: No nice way to say what I really want to say to you so I will just say you sound ridiculous! The bad guys will just wait us out??? What sort of plan is that? The media gives out more info than the white house!

I don't know about military strategy but what I certainly agree upon is that something needs to be done. We see what happened by leaving the Somali's alone. It's a free for all and the pirates are haunting us. If you don't do anything in Afghanistan what will happen? So I have to believe the Pres. makes the right decision even though I wish all the troops could come home.

What increased American military involvement will produce is increased resistance. People will flow into the loose collection roughly called 'taliban' by way of driving out what will be perceived as foreign aggession. Not that the 'taliban' will hold together or have an easier time than anyone else in governing Afghanistan. A better strategy was to foment division between Al-Qaeda and Afghanistan -- not hard to do since Al-Qaeda doesn't have a significant presence in Afghanistan. Instead, Americans are driving the two together.

Good Answer...the Taliban is there now, they were there before we got there and they will be there when we leave!!

Obama’s speech and his half-assed half-measures just cost the Dems the 2010 election; if they hadn't lost it already because of the global warming/cap & trade fraud, the health care fraud, inaction on immigration, trying to take democracy away from union members and tons of other incompetent and destructive nonsense.

PS - I'm telling you folks - Hillary now has her "hook" to give Obama the boot in 2012, one big kick ahead of the American people.

This is, unfortunately, just another "economic stimulus" at best. Pumping up a wartime economy is a time-tested way to stimulate the national economy. It's sad that the human cost in both lives and debt dropped on ourselves, our children and our grandchildren continues to rise.

One can only wish that the troops were called back instead of increased, and that the stimulus were applied back home, creating domestic jobs, mortgage relief and the like.

:: sigh ::

Brian can you bring a guest that has studied the Soviet Union’s involvement in Afghanistan? The history of that involvement may show us the future for President Obama decision.

Brian, did YOU say BLAME GW Bush for the last seven years of ineffective action in Afganistan?? HELLO!!!!!
Add on to that , the diversion, the lies and human treasure lost in Iraq for that same period!

Why wasn't "victory" delivered by Bush?!!

Don't listen to former Bushies who want to blame Obama for cleaning up the messes left by Bush and Cheney. Don't listen to them when they say, "stop blaming Bush," or "move on"! Everybody wishes we could move on, but Bush was a catastrophe. If Bush would have been a good President, we would have been done with Afghanistan seven years ago.

Brain, will you be having or taking dissenting voices today or just reciting the "party line" along with the usual suspects who are all pro-administration hacks???

As our professional military know, victory is a reasonable option. It is just undeliverable by this incompetent team of Obama, Pelosi, Reid, et al -- Bolsheviks, Maoists, Islamic Terrorist apologists and America self-haters all.

I predict that Hillary will resign after the 2010 mid-term election and successfully run against him for the Democrat nomination.

This is what you get when you elect an ineffective state senator to be a failed President. Obama is a fake, phony, fraud and incompetent. He basically announced his surrender. Now the bad guys can just wait us out. I was especially amused by his rewriting of history ex. Vietnam as a "popular uprising" lol. He ran his campaign stating that Afghanistan was where we needed to be. Now, he is desperately trying to appease his liberal base, who is abandoning him in doves since he hasn’t delivered anything he promised. What a joke, unfortunately it’s on us. We will be in Afghanistan forever, 10 years of fighting and then as an ally in a strategic region; fortunately he will only be messing things up for us for 3 more years. Worse President ever!!!

ps/ TomsDispatch -- big fan, thank you

Donde esta Iraq?

Is there a mission now? Bush's main problem with this and Iraq was that we had no real mission. In Iraq, we didn't even have a reason to be there.

Has anyone in US Government ever read the Art of War? Bush broke every rule, but the one that sticks with me is the damage an army does and the costs of maintaining it. In essence, it said that once you've gone back to resupply your troops after an initial invasion, you've already lost.

Obama's speech just paved a way for 'DECLARED VICTORY'.

"When democracies fight terrorism, they are defending the proposition that their political life should be free of violence. But defeating terror requires violence. It may also require coercion, secrecy, deception, even violation of rights. How can democracies resort to these means without destroying the values for which they stand? How can they resort to the lesser evil without succumbing to the greater?" - Michael Ignatieff