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Re: Did I call Gov. Palin a "b_tch"? [34] I called her "their attack-dog woman".

Is it better to say "pit-bull with lipstick"?

"You say that like it's a bad thing".

I stand by my statement [45]: This is the politics of Junior High School. The Republicans know exactly what they are doing. Gov. Palin fully embraces and enjoys her role. She enjoys being a b_tch.

Every phrase she said was scripted by prescient political operatives. The prior speakers, from the Sen from South Carolina to Guliani, were scripted with not-so subliminal messages of sexual innuendo.

The message was "Barry's a girlie-guy".

bdiddy [74] decries "sexism" in commentary. I say that the Republican strategy is sexual by it's very nature and – yes – this is the appropriate language to describe the nature of the spectacle.

How to get at the intelligent black guy? The Republicans know that the way to turn the American public and get under Obama's skin is to belittle him sexually. If they can diminish Barrack Obama down to "Barry" Obama, then they don't have to address issues.

We are spectators. The Republicans know that we the American people will not turn away from a spectacle, watching the "barracuda" beat up on the African-American brainiac. This is *SO* junior high school. We've all been trained to look on as the chick belittles the boy.

Minimizing a man by feminizing him works. It worked in second grade and seventh grade. It continues to work in America.

quick addendum: absolutely was going to vote for hrc. absolutely not going to vote for obama. absolutely not going to vote for mccain. i'll be taking a pass on the presidential line of the november election as a protest non-vote against my party and its leadership who i believe foolishly and cynically gave the inexperience and unaccomplished obama the nomination in a crass and cynical move to garner unfettered access to the pied piper's treasure chest of campaign donations and in mistaken hope that backing him would gain them a loyal blue constituency of young and monied contributors for generations to come. remember, your guy got crushed down stretch by hrc and didn't gain enough pledged delegates to win nomination outright. ironically, it was he, not hrc, who got the nomination handed to him by super delegate party leaders.

absolutely was going to vote for hrc. on my positions, your inability to digest them is precisely why your guy is getting crushed in the latest polls. the last dem to win the white house did so b/c he was able to bridge the party's gap to reagan dems and rural voters as a son of south & member of the dlc. unfortunately as is our party's bane, we can't stand success and decide to ex post facto to call a successful administration a "crony administration", to call 8 years of w.h. control as "failure to build a widespread congressional dem movement", etc., etc. well, 8 years later i'd of thought there'd be more sober appreciation for that success of the 90s but you obama-ites, so full of yourselves and hype on your unaccomplished candidate, decided it was more expedient to spit on that legacy & call success failure. & now you and your candidate are publicly begging your former foe to come in & pull your bacon out of the fire. i'm 100% comfortable in my positions on the issues b/c unlike you guys, there grounded in reality not in idealistic fiction.

mc,
cool, catch up with you later!

eva,
I have to say that my feeling on the b word and the n word is that if a member of the traditionally oppressing group is using it there is an implied threat, or at least a diminishing of the individual.

Have to go.

Have a good evening

mc,
the irony is that was my cousin in europe! but she had a better lifestyle than my better-educated cousins in Asia, and also a better lifestyle than we have here. That is, for all her hardships, she had great fresh air, a loving if strict and somewhat narrow-minded community, and a good mediterranean diet - very healthy living. And all that exercise was good for her. And none of the stresses of modern life. The weird thing is that she was living as we are supposed to live.

mc,
I forgot to answer your question on the n word.
It's a word that depends on the context.
And I think, in part, the answer to your question comes down to asking people the race/gender ratio in their personal experience. To me, gender is much more fluid than race.

eva,
Your story about your cousin reminds us of the lavish lifestyle we really live here. The fact that we are a minority in the world and consume most of the resources is morally untenable. Then we try to preach to the emerging economies like India and China. Sure, those countries have their problems and their faults but we have no moral authority whatsoever in this department.

mc,
I agree - given the number of kids with asthma, I think we need to stop saying clean coal. The additional particulate will just add to the problem.

eva,
I agree on the sick addiction to oil. Even if we did get some production out of drilling (which would not happen for a long time) it is ultimately something we have to stop doing. Imagine, advocating drilling on the North Slope as it slides into the Arctic Sea because of the greenhouse gases that burning that oil cause.

I need both candidates to stop with the "clean coal." It is an oxymoron. First of all, to get the coal "clean" is a zero-sum game, because the amount of energy it takes equals or exceeds what you get. Second, if you ever spend any time in eastern Ohio or West Virginia you will see how extracting that coal has devastated the landscape to say nothing of the coal miners in Utah killed by the "retreat" method.

bdiddy,
given where you are on the issues, were you ever really going to vote for Hilary?
mc,
I agree with you that we need more details from both campaigns. Absolutely, we NEED to know. However, given the "drill, baby, drill" mantra, it's a no-brainer for me, I'm totally with Tom Friedman on this issue. In fact, his extreme passion on alternative energy funding and the idiocy of "drill, baby, drill" has (almost) made me forgive him for his Iraq invasion advocacy. But he, too, wants more solid support on this from Obama.
One of my much older cousins, living in a village on a tiny island in a poor country, used to walk, even into her seventies, three miles into town every day. Then back. She said she was ashamed when she grew older that she occasionally had to take the bus. I still don't drive, even here in California. I basically refuse to, on ethical grounds. So, no, "drill baby drill" does not work for me, especially after the GOP's shoddy alternative energy record.

bdiddy,
given where you are on the issues, were you ever really going to vote for Hilary?
mc,
I agree with you that we need more details from both campaigns. Absolutely, we NEED to know. However, given the "drill, baby, drill" mantra, it's a no-brainer for me, I'm totally with Tom Friedman on this issue. In fact, his extreme passion on alternative energy funding and the idiocy of "drill, baby, drill" has (almost) made me forgive him for his Iraq invasion advocacy. But he, too, wants more solid support on this from Obama.
True story: when I was a young girl, I visited a cousin who was in her 70's, and who lived in a village on a tiny island in a very poor part of the world. She walked three miles to market every day, and was ashamed when she sometimes needed to take the bus. The children in the village mocked her when she took the bus for being weak. Her sense of shame was, to me, deeply dignified.
At that moment, I realized that I did not need to drive. I could live without a car. Even after leaving New York, I still get around on foot and bike, and, yes, unlike my cousin, I will take the bus. Thus, "drill baby drill" does not work for me. At all.
Our petroleum addiction indicates our phenomenal weakness as Americans - which is in direct contrast to the great people who built this nation. It's also making us sick...

eva,
One more thought on "naughty" words: Do you feel that "ni***r is a "naughty" word? To me all of these words accomplish one thing: they dehumanize the person they are aimed at.

biddy,
With you on the media sexism and also on the chauvinism the two coasts have toward the "fly-over" part of the country. I wish people would understand that if you talk down to people they probably won't listen to you. I don't think the candidates do this but the blow-hards certainly do.

I echo eva's questions on the issues and also wonder where you stand on Lilly Ledbetter and Employees Free Choice.

eva, 1st: just endeavoring to highlight that the natl media is NE based. on your questions: 1. yes, i'm in favor of the "all of the above" approach to energy policy. if we predominantly use oil ourselves, are willing to pay other nations to exploit their natural resources to supply us with oil, have countless locations nationwide that produce oil, i see no reason to not explore smart & safe ways to drill for new sources of oil. drilling and alternative energy are not mutually exclusive. 2. i support a women's right to choose, but realize there is a natl split on this issue, and in fact many dems are anti-abortion (dem catholics and evangelicals). i've no problem with a candidate who's personal position is consistent with her faith view. & obama spent much of campaign claiming that faith has proper role in politics & that dems have too often failed to speak about faith & how that influences their policymaking. i disagree with that counsel & now relish that counsel coming back to pinch obama b/c he can't attack palin on this w/o being dubbed a hypocrite. 3. on miranda, the point of her comment was to highlight the weight of the candidates' relative focus on issue of counter terrorism strategy, offensive strategy or maintenance of civil liberties. want to ding her for using political caricature to score points, fine. but obama is as guilty as anyone of doing the same, so in my mind, that's just the nature of the political business they both are in.

eva,
As for naughty words in the media: what bothers me is that the Dems fancy themselves as having the moral high ground, and no one either from the Obama campaign or in the Dem leadership even acknowledged what happened. I truly do not believe this swung the nomination either way, but it is hard for me to swallow the idea that this party really has my interests at heart. It would have gone a long way toward "healing." Instead, we got a late, and weak statement from Howard Dean and it was the magnificent Michelle Obama who finally articulated what happened, why it hurt, and the hope that it would not happen again.
That is why I am an Obama supporter, but a Dem in name only so that I can have a voice in my local elections which are decided in the primaries.

Also, here in Brooklyn, I have only heard "b***ch applied to females. It may be different in NorCal as you say.

eva,
With you on "drill baby drill."
I am also, unfortunately not optimistic that either of these guys really knows what he id doing on energy, the debt, the economy and I don't see the needle moving much in Iraq after Jan. 20. I fervently hope I'm wrong. For me the biggest reason that Obama gets my vote is workers' rights, the Lilly Ledbetter bill and the Employees' Free Choice Act to name two bills. Also, thought I think they are both clueless when it comes to access to heath care, McCain wants to tax employer health benefits. I think that is backwards - uncouple health from work first, then think about taxing it if you must.

Two questions I would like to ask Gov. Palin (over Republican howls) that I think are fair, being about policy stances:

1- You have supported abstinence-only sex ed curricula. Given your family's current experience, have you seen any reason to rethink this position?

2- If heaven forbid-- god forbid-- something terrible happened to your daughter Bristol and the doctors told you the only way to save her life was by an abortion, would you authorize one? Would it matter if they said the life of the child could not be saved, either?

No one will get the chance to ask these, tho.

Well, bdiddy, I'm not from the northeast, I'm from the west. My white great grand-daddy worked on the railroads, and my uncle's a sheet metal worker, so I don't much care what eastern elites have to say - unless they've got something to offer. And I don't see much, besides personality, to like about Palin on the issues. And I also don't much like it when women claim to be "picked on" by the media. I didn't like it when Hilary did it, I don't like it when Palin does it.
BTW, how did Palin describe Hilary's complaint about sexist media treatment? "Whining." I can't agree more, and mc can probably attest to that.
But seriously, bdiddy, on the issues:
1)are you for more drilling and less investment in alternative energy? 2)Are you against a woman's right to choose? 3)Are you against criminals being read their Miranda rights?
Those are three questions which I respectfully submit for you to answer.

hi mc,
I am open to a Quaker meeting!
And on issues? Right with you. Like drill baby drill?
to me, that's a clear statement about where the GOP wants to take us. Backward to the 19th century.
Look, we HAVE to deal with certain unpleasant things. Like our energy dependence. And our refusal to invest in new energy technologies. And, I'm beating a dead horse here, foreign policy and the deficit.
On a relative basis, I don't much care about naughty words and how partisan the media is. Some media is partisan one way, other media the other way. But in the big scope of things, it's not as important. Whether you see a pattern from Hilary to Palin is actually... kind of beside the point on a relative basis. It's making the personal political, which I understand, but at a certain point you gotta notice that while you're inspecting the quality of the road, there's a tanker truck about to run you over.

eva, palin was a mayor. palin now serves as governor. it is classic northeast elitism to believe that if the national media hasn't yet had a chance to speak with you (which, frankly, everyone knows is going to occur as early as this thursday with abc according to latest reports), that somehow the "country bumpkin governor from the klondike" hasn't ever been vetted or made to answer tough and pointed questions from a dispassionate media. wrong. palin, like all public officials, have had to go through media examination and questioning. this is why, surprise surprise, she could actually deliver a pretty damn good speech in front of millions of onlookers. and surprise surprise, she'll do equally well in interviews with the "national press corps" and in the debates. her appeal in alaska and now nationally is political gold: she's truly comfortable in her own skin. and the obama camp is right to be worried and concerned. she's very, very formidabble.

eva and David! Re: meditation, try going to a Quaker meeting. It can vary wildly depending on the particular gathering but I have had out-of-body experiences there.

biddy and eva: biddy I am sympathetic to your feeling about the media vis-a-vis Hillary. I do think that the media have clouded their own identity by blurring the distinction between news reporting and coverage. News reporting is done by reporters and coverage is done by people like Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, Bill O'Reilly, the cast of characters goes on. I was dismayed by the kinds of things that came out of the mouths of people I used to have high regard for like Ed Schultz and Randi Rhodes. It has made me more sensitive about using abusive language about a politician I might find objectionable, like Bush, McCain or Palin. I think we can go a long way toward civility if we stick to the records, the issues and not go into those nasty places. Of course, people are free to do as they please, but to me that means they are more interested in bloviating than advocating for their candidate.

hi bdiddy,
I have to call you first on your first point
the media is in the tank for Obama?
why, then, am I so fond of McCain?
The reality is that both McCain and Obama have been favored by the media, McCain more so than Obama because the love-fest has gone on for so long. And who can blame the media for loving McCain? He's a good guy.
In fact, a lot of the coverage (feeding frenzy, to use the GOP term) of Obama was very negative.
As for Paloin, the reality is that when you hide from the media, when you are announced as the VP pick and you refuse to do interviews for two weeks, well, 1) people - not the media - will wonder what you are trying to hide and 2) you let the media take the direction. This is a two-way street. You can't be the VP pick, make erroneous statements about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and hide out. If you're the VP pick, you have to show up. Take your lumps like a man, or, if you prefer, like a woman. But you have to present your views. You can't just hide.

sorry, that's a typo, it should read Palin, not Paloin.
The o is right next to the i!

hi bdiddy,
I have to call you first on your first point
the media is in the tank for Obama?
why, then, am I so fond of McCain?
The reality is that both McCain and Obama have been favored by the media, McCain more so than Obama because the love-fest has gone on for so long. And who can blame the media for loving McCain? He's a good guy.
In fact, a lot of the coverage (feeding frenzy, to use the GOP term) of Obama was very negative.
As for Paloin, the reality is that when you hide from the media, when you are announced as the VP pick and you refuse to do interviews for two weeks, well, 1) people - not the media - will wonder what you are trying to hide and 2) you let the media take the direction. This is a two-way street. You can't be the VP pick, make erroneous statements about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and hide out. If you're the VP pick, you have to show up. Take your lumps like a man, or, if you prefer, like a woman. But you have to present your views. You can't just hide.

eva, it's absolutely like what happened to hillary in this regard: the media is in the tank for obama, has been since early in the campaign wooed by 2 factors: 1. they are the obama demographic, largely college educated monied middle class suburbanites; 2. the hanna-montana effect of the crowds. like hanna, obama can draw a crowd but that doesn't mean he or she has real talent. what is obama's legislative record of achievement at any level, really?? i'm not talking about bills cosponsored which are hundreds by every member of congress and the senate, but bills authored and shepherded through congressional committe to floor vote to passage. but because the media is biased, then the resulting stories on the campaign totally lose objectivity with everything from the opposition being likened to "attacking" or "negative campaigning" or "politics of the past" or "race baiting" while everything for obama is "inspired" and "not politics as usual" and "movement." give me a media that just gives me the facts and let me be the subjective decider of what the facts portend about the candidates. before news orgs had to start operating as profit centers, we had this dynamic in our news coverage. in this election, the bastardization of objectivity in news has been taken to heights i never ever dreamed possible and it disturbs me immensely.

David!
peace! :)

eva,

Thanks for the recommendations. I've already requested "What Does China Think" from the NYPL, and I'll look into Pimsleur tapes.

Have a peaceful evening...

bdiddy,
Yes, the media has been out of control. But I don't buy that this is just like what happened with Hilary. And as someone who has no idea how we're going to pay off the deficit, I'm more concerned with seeing the actual government, not the fourth estate you referenced, "return to a principled practice of the position."
Having said that, Sarah Palin has been rushed onto the stage with a mere two months to go. H. Clinton and Obama had to undergo a GRUELING process of vetting by the American people. Palin has largely hidden since the announcement that she was on the ticket. In addition to a highly partisan intro speech (that was seriously painful to watch for its open viciousness) she made a weird and erroneous comment last week about Fannie and Freddie. What gives?
One thing I believe, rightly or wrongly: after talking with my Republican friends over the weekend, I don't think the media is accurately reporting how many Republicans DON'T want Sarah Palin on the ticket. Just because she is a woman doesn't mean she is the incarnation of Hilary.

eva, i'm with you virtually 100% and appreciate you keeping your critique to things that are actually substantive regarding her record and issue position and actually relevant. as a hrc supporter, however, my disgust with the media fueling of these ridiculous critiques is reminiscent of what i considered wholly biased and oft sexist coverage of the dem primary, and i'm quite literally fed up with it. lack of true investigative and objective reporting absolutely led us into the iraq war, absolutely in my mind skewed the end result of the dem primary which i believe facts now suggest would have been in a much stronger position with hrc at the top of the ticket, and is again disserving the political process.

i just want to see the 4th branch of government return to a principled practice of the position.

bdiddy,
no doubt Sarah Palin is a tough cookie, and I admire her. Unfortunately, I disagree with her on everything from choice to the environment to book banning to earmarks to... the list goes on.
I could care less how many schools she had to go to. W only went to one - Yale - and look where it's got us!

Hi David!
I want to learn how to meditate!
I think any conversational Mandarin class is good, there is also a Pimsleur tape method which is highly recommended - and that from an American guy who speaks and reads all forms of Japanese, so I consider it a good source.
Don't worry about learning the characters - character literacy is dropping even among Chinese. But if you even learn a few phrases in Mandarin well (or even not well), you will be surprised by the reception you get from Chinese in the US. That was the most surprising thing about studying the language to me. That it opened doors I never realized had existed! I also recommend a fantastic book called "What Does China Think" by a guy who runs a think tank in London. You could read the whole thing in an hour, it's really short, big type, but fascinating. It did not make me fear China less, but it did let me understand their particular hurdles, and how the rest of the world fits into that.

again, i realize all you obama-ites are so desperate to save your candidate from his inevitable failure to win this election that you that you'll latch onto any esoteric fact seemingly supporting a critique of mccain-palin, such as "6 colleges in 6 years." but again, if you take 2 seconds to actually seek true understanding before you comment, you'd find out that the multiple colleges was in large part motivated by family inability to finance college for 4 college age students all at the same time. this is also why palin ended up competing in beauty contest -- to earn scholarship money to finance her schooling. to me, all of the above is pretty damn commendable and evidences someone willing to truly work for her education. what did you do, good doctor, to self-finance your way into college and med school, eh?

Eva,

Agree 100%. My primary effort in staying well is either walking or meditating at lunch. I'm very close to Riverside Park during the day, and that is such an ideal place to walk or meditate.

Way back when, you once suggested learning Mandarin Chinese. Is there a particular program you'd recommend?

David!
Totally agreed with the rose-colored spex. The Obama campaign, to be honest, could have done a better job of asking its supporters to tone down the rhetoric, and to be frank, if they had done that, I think they would look better now, and might even have finished earlier. It also would have done wonders for our collective blood pressure...
Yes, into yoga, but have not been doing much of it lately, and I don't have an adorable excuse like you do! I'm really intrigued by the new studies showing how yoga reduces cortisol/adrenaline levels, and thereby boosts the immune system while guarding against heart disease and inflammatory issues, specifically arthritis... good stuff. I was talking with a GOP friend I worked with in health care, and we both agreed that the number one responsibility of every American to himself/herself is to stay the heck out of the hospital. That's one aspect that I think is missing bigtime from our health care discussion - prevention.

Eva,

Your points are well taken, and I remember well some of the bruising comments made by some HRC supporters.

I was merely pointing out some info for the sake of accuracy. As lamenting fails to bring a more rational discourse, neither does a rose-coloured portrayal of past events.

***

So, you like yoga. I'd like to get into that, but I have lots of things on hold until the little one gets a little older.

David!
Trust me, it was bruising from both sides. I do think it makes it harder for the side that didn't see their candidate get the nomination, and that's why I have particular respect for people who backed Hilary strongly and are now supporting Obama.
But on issues, Obama and Hilary are very close, and there is a great deal more in common than not. The reality is that lamenting over bruised feelings will not bring a more rational discourse to foreign policy. As my high school coach used to tell all of us girls, "Man up!" The fact that this was totally sexist language from our coach did not diminish the importance of the message. What he meant was, "toughen up, we have a tough race ahead of us before state and nationals..."

I am looking forward to both major parties to shoot themselves in the foot. It's bound to happen before Election Day so that common sense prevails and a third party candidate prevails.

@52, Michael, with respect, please don't speak for all Obama supporters taking that high road. Sen. Clinton and her supporters are still recovering from the brusing we took on these boards from SOME Obama supporters

Hi mc,
That sounds scary! Glad you made it out.
I reread Craig's post, and I see that you're right, although when I read it, I assumed he meant that their cynical strategy was to find someone whose behavior could fit that description.
Truth be told, here in Norcal, we've long considered the b-word to be non-gender specific, and it has freely been used, with irony and without, to describe various straight men, as well as everyone and everything else in between. I think our upbringings in wildly different environments no doubt influence how we view such words. When you left the midwest for NY, you came to a more liberal environment. When I left Norcal for NY, I entered a wildly more conservative environment. Along those lines, you and I had different takes on the word "pimp" as a verb, as in Chelsea being pimped by her mother to the media. Truth be told, having spent five years in the financial industry, where the word "pimped out" was used to describe anything from a news leak to the breakdown of a lunchtime seating chart (gender irrelevant in those situations) I think I'm fairly inured to salty language.
But set aside all this parsing of words for right now, the point is that you are right about both of those posts.

Hi eva,
I had a great weekend, thank you. Re: #34, I'm sorry but I read it straight. It looks to me like he is calling Sarah Palin a b**tch. That is his right. However, if we want to maintain our moral authority we should be focusing on the abundant aspects of her record that can be criticized, not stooping to that level.

Re: the soldier in Aiken SC, I am not familiar with that case but I did follow with interest the re-opening of the Emmett Till case late in 2006 or early 2007. This is by no means over, for any of us. I don't even want to tell you how recently I looked at the barrel of a pistol in northern IN because of the company I was keeping.

correction:
the wikipedia entry differs from the Robert Caro report:
"Despite newspaper accounts indicating that Woodard's eyes had been "gouged out", historical documents indicate that each bulb was ruptured irreparably in the socket.The following morning, the police sent him before the local judge, who promptly found him guilty and fined him fifty dollars. He requested medical assistance, but it took two days for a doctor to be sent to him. Not knowing where he was and still suffering from amnesia, Woodard ended up in a hospital in Aiken, South Carolina, receiving substandard medical care.
Three weeks after he was reported missing by his relatives, he was discovered in the hospital. Woodard was immediately rushed to an Army hospital in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Though his memory had begun to recover by that time, doctors found both his corneas damaged beyond repair."
The result is that the soldier was blinded for life. Woodard had been awarded "a battle star, for unloading ships under fire in New Guinea, and a Good Conduct Medal, in addition to the Service medal and World War II Victory Medal awarded to all American participants in the conflict."
Woodard died in a VA hospital in the Bronx in 1992. The silver lining is that his maiming at the hands of policemen in South Carolina motivated Truman to push through an Executive Order that banned racial discrimination in the armed forces.
Oedipus, Lear... Woodard. Gross tragedy precedes reform?

It's no wonder that Rick Davis played McCain's love of the country and accused Obama of selfishness.

Davis has also said: "This election is not about issues. This election is about a composite view of what people take away from these candidates."
Source: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_manager_this_election_i.html?nav=rss_blog

Rick Davis has laid out McCain's campaign strategy. Forget about public policy issues. Just keep hammering away that McCain loves America and we can't be sure if or how much Obama loves America.

If Davis succeeds and McCain wins, it will be a profound tragedy for the country and the rest of the world.

Former House Speaker Dennis Hastert in a radio interview on WLS' Don Wade & Roma Morning Show said Sarah Palin is "the only person that’s a real American family person that’s come out in this election”.

1) What criteria did Hastert use in order to conclude that Gov. Palin is the only candidate in this election who is “a real American family person” ?
2) What is it about Barack Obama’s personal biography that makes him less of a real American than Sarah Palin or John McCain?
3) Is Gov. Palin’s husband a real American family person even though he once belonged to a political party that favored Alaska’s secession from the United States?

Source: http://progressillinois.com/2008/09/02/hastert-real-american-family

p.s.
Truman was really motivated by the story of what happened to that soldier. Most of yesterday, after I put the book down, I thought: what the heck happened to the soldier after THAT? Who took care of him? What became of him?
The police did their violence in a police station, where the soldier had been detained, after complaining that he wasn't allowed to use the toilet on a greyhound type bus.
It really is... ugh. Because a black man complained that he couldn't use the toilet on a bus, they gouged his eyes out with a black jack? And Senator Russell assured that those policemen were never punished. Can you imagine such a thing? What sort of sadists? Ugh.

So in the tank for obama that you miss the most basic journalistic tasks in your critiques of the mccain-palin ticket: 1. maybe research what palin's foreign policy experience might be. a google search reveals Governor Palin met with the Consul of Japan in Anchorage, Mr. Hideo Fujita, in September; Yukon Premier Dennis Fentie and Governor Sarah Palin met in January 2007 to talk about Alaska-Yukon relations; Representative Iskhakov (Russia) returned with an extremely high-ranking delegation of more than 50 officials, including nine governors of the Russian Far East and the elected heads of most of the RFE provincial legislatures in 2006, to name a few; 2. maybe check the internatl trade promoting and natl security activities governors undertake, particularly those with heavy military defense installations in the state. I believe we'd find those activities substantial & impressive; 3. maybe check into how many 1st term democratic governors are out there, some like ted strickland whose name has been floated for dem vp, some like deval patrick who are lead strategist for the obama presidential campaign (http://ts-si.org/content/view/3365/994/). Are they unqualified? the abysmal journalism totally lacking in investigation and objectivity that led to our mistaken entry into iraq is being duplicated in the non-investigative, non-objective reporting on this election. i implore you as a profession to get back to taking your professional duties more seriously.

In the words of Jon Stewart, John McCain is a “Reformed Maverick”.

McCain’s gimmick of a Straight Talk Express is one of the greatest cons ever pulled off in American politics. The bus should be called the Doubletalk Express. McCain is the complete antithesis of authenticity, he’s the ultimate huckster.

The John McCain of 2000 would have instantly rejected Sarah Palin as an “Agent of Intolerance.” The John McCain of 2008 embraces Sarah Palin because he’s become a lapdog of the “Agents of Intolerance”.

Republicans are at again – Questioning Obama’s Patriotism

Sen. James Inhoffe of Oklahoma
Regardless of what polls show, Inhofe said, voters will have to ask themselves a question once they get behind the curtain in the voting booth on Election Day.
"Do you really want to have a guy as commander in chief of this country when you can question whether or not he really loves his country?" he asked.
"That's the big question.''
Source: Inhofe says patriotism question will sink Obama, Tulsa World, http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080906_11_A1_STPAUL227187

Rep. Steve King of Iowa
Steve King, R-Iowa, said Thursday that Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama’s upbringing was devoid of patriotism or the principles that make the United States a great country.
Source: Rep. King questions Obama's patriotism, Waterloo and Cedar Falls Courier, http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2008/09/04/news/breaking_news/doc48c04b1bb33d6282403020.txt

When will John McCain, Sarah Palin, or one of their surrogates denounce the comments of Inhoffe and King for questioning Obama’a patriotism? Don’t hold your breath.

#53,
Hi mc,
hope you had a good weekend. In fairness to #34, I don't think he was saying that he calls women that, but that the GOP has found a strategy that works for them, and we should be able to see through it.
I do think Craig has identified something salient in their strategy.
On a separate note, have been reading Robert Caro's "Master of the Senate" series on LBJ - I knew the civil rights legislation was important, but I had no idea how bad the situation in George and South Carolina had been. I'm on the first volume of the bio, and I was literally sickened by what I read, like the black soldier IN UNIFORM who had his eyes gouged out by white policemen in Aiken, South Carolinia, for standing up for his rights, e.g., for being uppity. I seriously didn't even want to type that incident, it's so... ugh. But we really have come a long way - all of us, not just blacks, but women and other minorities.

i hear very little commentary about:

6 colleges in 6 years.
If you had a child who did this, would you be concerned about mental stability?
I have heard no commentary on the fact that her major source for decision-making is her pastor and a literal interpretation of the Bible.

very frightening. She makes bush seems like a heathen.
dr. sandra mann

Craig #34
Is this kind of imagery coming from someone who considers himself one of the good guys? Epithets at someone you disagree with? Isn't that what makes us hate the other side?

Michael #38
Hmm. Sounds like a good approach at getting those people to come to your side. Are you working undercover for the other side?

Racists have always had the high school bully mentality. They take the low road because they are the lower form of life. Like the civil rights marchers and non whites during the Era of America's "open racist " period, The Obama crowd prefers to take the high road . This truth is also evident here in the comments above.

I would say the repubs have another scandal to worry about other than if Senator Obama is Country First or NOT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VELIG92GDXw

@51 Maggie

I agree. I respectfully submit that
www.sportsmenforobama.org
has a detailed list of Obama's efforts to BAN GUNS, lest we be misled that he actually is not a hoplophobe.

The media need to realize that in this modern day and age where people are more distracted than ever before, and therefore (wrongly) don't spend as much time studying the issues and candidates, it is CRITICAL that the media do fact checking for the people. And it needs to be done quickly, each time lies are perpetrated. Don't say well, if the candidates don't do it themselves, then they get what they deserve. So the Liars get into office.

Media! Wake UP! Do the right thing.

This thing that Obama has put himself first is just ridiculous! He is campaigning for the highest office in this land! Responsiblity will fall back on him for the decisions made from this office. You people sound ridiculous when you say he is putting himself first! What should he be promoting "vote for the USA" see how stupid that sounds?

Get back on Bush, McCain, Palin and her controversy if you want distraction.

What sort of mindset leads the staff at WNYC, or Brian, to view Gail Collins as an adequate representative of the left, a foil to the Wall Street Journal?

Will we never learn?

In the face of the utter co-opting of the national discourse by right-wing interests, are we still playing this absurd game? Is it any wonder Democrats lose election after election, despite the fact that Republican policies are deeply unpopular?

When is WNYC you going to stop talking to itself and and actually look at the world we live in? Are real leftists too critical of Israel for Brian's comfort?

Re: The Campaign Folo-Up. In my quest to pick up some Barak Obama yard signs, I could not find a New York local office, nor could I find any schedule of Obama/Biden current and upcoming speaking events. NONE. Opposition has their campaign schedule accessible, user friendly and updated on their website. What's up with that? Obama, where are you?

The politics of Palin / McCain is the politics of Junior High School. Get the loud chick to pick on Obama. Call him a faggot.

It works. They know it works. What McCain needed is a Trailer-trash Politico to fight his fight for him.

Were these journalists awake this morning? There was little that was enlightening or coherent that they offered, particularly Gayle. Is she on the McCain payroll?

Everyone KNOWS Obama puts himself first before everything and everyone. Pointing out that he doesn't put "country first", is just symptomatic.

Remember the "bus"?! He throws lifelong friends, beliefs, and family members right under the tyres, and keeps on rollin'

There is a graveyard of people and positions with tyre marks! Grandma, FISA, Wright, Phleger...I don't have the time or space to list them all.

;)

The claim that Obama puts himself before his country is part of the Rove Republican strategy of initiating the character debate, which uses unified, repetitive and consistent vocabulary, in this case to frame Obama as a celebrity and inexperienced youth. McCain can then be contrasted as the candidate who puts country first, using his record to build the character argument.

This strategy is aimed to shift the focus from the future and concrete ideas for change--Obama's campaign platform--to the history and record of the candidates in order to illustrate character using a unified, repetitive and consistent vocabulary. This is a strategical response to the public popularity of "change." If McCain were to run his campaign on policy, the public would clearly see lack of change; his policies must remain in line with the interests of incumbent constituencies.

This is classic Rove, and it is effective because he realizes he can capitalize on something the Democratic party never has, which is the fact people are people first, and policy wonks almost never. They respond to a person's character, which, when illustrated with unified, repetitive and consistent vocabulary, can move mountains (see US presidential elections 2000, 2004).

The aide of the media is invoked not through direct coercion necessarily (most of the time), but by the parrot talking heads which cling to buzzwords and producers that run three second sound bites of a unified, repetitive and consistent vocabulary.

The rebuplicans are doing it again, they are just mirroring the democrats (releasing all those darn balloons!) and hoping the can keep the focus off the issues. They had 8 years, time to go.

Dorothy you are just misinformed, Senator Obama always speaks of "how" he intends to implement change. You should do a little more research and not rely solely on the media hype. Mccain & Co just picked up on the change message as a defense mechanism. NOTE: the repubs on defense. Their new campaign is change from the old repub to the new repubs, that is NOT what Senator Obama supporters mean by change.

I think one sign that Obama is feminized is that he is a hoplophobe. He seems obsessed with banning guns! He is AFRAID of them. Unlike Sarah, who is a lifetime NRA member and "man"handles a M4 carbine!

Obama gun ban bills:
SB1338
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet92/summary/920SB1338.html
SB0051
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet92/summary/920SB0051.html
SB0041
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet92/summary/920SB0041.html
SB0059
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet92/summary/920SB0059.html
SB2083
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet92/summary/920SB2083.html

[38] J.C.

People who oppose universal health insurance do so as they know it will wreck the country, so in fact they do LOVE the USA.

1) it doesn't work (poor outcomes)
2) we can't afford it (let's pay for Social Security and Medicaid first)

A shocking small percentage of Americans pay for all the goodies you want to hand out -- you think taxing them more is DEMOCRATIC? {Fully half of Americans pay ZERO taxes}

Will the last die hard Hillary supporter out of the Dem convention please turn off the "Hillary as wife of an ex prez and is supposed to be anointed the presidency" sign"? Or, are THEY becoming a new strain of the un-dead wandering around to creep us out and draw out our political lifeblood as well? The selfishness that Hillary showed far outweighs anything I have seen so far, and her own false vindictives against Obama are being used against progressives and other clear thinking folk by the creepy right. But I digress.... (much to republican delight)

And don't forget -- McCain got CAUGHT by the enemy, and sat in their prison for FIVE YEARS. That makes him a LOSER who can be counted on to SCREW UP as commander-in-chief, just like he did as a soldier.

Let me ask you -- what great leader let himself get CAUGHT and spend FIVE YEARS in the hands of the enemy? For all we know, McCain is brainwashed and a "sleeper agent" who will aid the international communist conspiracy!

I love the idea of airing a Republican slander and then asking the shill from the WSJ what she thinks about it! Great way to get the right-wing propaganda out over the publicly funded left-wing air. Brian, do you realize that the Republicans are your enemy? Or are you earning, what, $300,000 a year or more, and you know which side your economic bread is buttered on?

Meanwhile, the liberal point-of-view is represented by Gail Collins, who seems to think that it's all a joke -- Obama is a big faggot joke, as a matter of fact. At least she admits that McCain's charge that Obama cares less about America makes her skin crawl -- but how about pointing out that it's a bald-faced lie, and that, in fact, it is McCain who sold out his political office for cash in the Charles Keating scandal of 1989? That's prima facie proof that McCain is a sell-out who corrupts his office and betrays his constituency.

Re: The insulting and snobbish "I love my country more than you do" line that the Republicans tried to pull in St. Paul.

Republicans (esp. wealthy ones) who refuse to pay tax for UNIVERSAL HEALTH INSURANCE are not putting their country first.

The Republican strategy on Obama is not to swift-boat him, but to *feminize* him – that's why they used cross-dresser Guliani to ridicule his pubic organizing activities. They also accuse Obama of being "fussy", and other similar language.

Then they set their attack-dog woman after him. They know that having a loud, angry b_tch publicly chase after a man serves to belittle him.

Obama has put his selfish interests ahead of his own party and that is why we see the rift between competing allegiancies - women/first black president - forces democrats to split their support. Obama could have refrained from running and permitted Hillary to run unimpeded. The DNC has much responsibility for this decision as well.

The charge that many Dems aren't patriotic often sticks because many Dem Don't embrace the "my county right or wrong" ethos that many americans like to wave about.
Nonsensical but I think this is why.

This is what comes of Obama's campaign of platitudes -- He talked about "Change" but he never talked about what he was going to change or how. So McCain can talk about "Change" too.

Of course they're going to present Obama as selfish. He decided to run for president after less than 2 years in the Senate. He voted present on 130 instances.

I'm terrified of a McCain presideency and I'm furious at the Dems and Obama supporters for putting us in the position that McCain might actually win this election.

i guess my comments are filtered or blocked

see ya...

Kudos to Brian for trying to put some sense into Gail Collins.

Hmm. So if they allow Muslims to procreate in their countries, EU nations are traitors? Is that your implication, NPV?

Do you know how insanely racist that is [and/or how insanely racist you are to say that]?

Serving the country in the military is only one way to serve this country. The same old Republican crap!

Republican Sleaze: John McCain ADMITS he put himself first until he was a POW. Well if he was selfish for the first 30+ years of his life, that is who he is - it is hard to change. McCain's choice of Palin is CLEARLY putting himself first, putting politics first and country is nowhere near the calculation.

If McCain has to keep telling us how he puts his country first, it raises many doubts as to whether this is true.

That is a complete lie caller! Obama has never put himself first before country.

"Alaska is close to Russia, and Sarah Palin understands that." PRICELESS. Two great sites: www.factcheck.org and http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter

Here they go again! Are Americans this disconnected that they willjust believe whatever is said by the republicans? Everyone should check out:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/behindthesmears

to see who is behind the lies, it's the same folks that have been at it for the last 15 or so years.

Well is anyone aiming missiles at Chicago?
What is your point.
In fact I think Palin has actually done a deal with Canadian companies about oil.
I mean is that lame? Yes but what is Obama's counter?
"I'm smarter than her" ok I'll buy that, but being smarter isn't experience

#3 - The European Union and its ilk have maybe another twenty years before they become
the islamic union. They are the Neville Chamberlan appeasers of our time!!!!!!!!
NPV

Palin on Obama beating Hillary: "Sambo beat the bitch!"

http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/05/alaskans-speak-in-a-frightened-whisper-palin-is-%E2%80%9Cracist-sexist-vindictive-and-mean%E2%80%9D/

"WNYC has a fairly young idealistic audience. The Starbucks latte crowd who have a lot of time on their hands and who bang away"

Bull.

Keep to Fox and cable, if you want, my friend.

WNYC is the real deal.

law enforcement: thugs for the owners, just look at the RNC conventions, etc.

It is very unfortunate that McCain was captured, beaten, tortured & held. He seems sincerely moved emotionality by military countrymen that lost there lives or shared experiences similar to him.

The contradiction I find is that there seems to be no acknowledgement of the people that he dropped bombs on in the 22 missions prior to his crash and capture, and through his, “Fight, fight, fight” rhetoric he seems very ready, willing and able to continue death and destruction through out the world rather then working for peace.

Obama is teetering on sounding sexist: a woman can know something about foreign policy.

Hey NPV, Please take your advice.

I think I know why the Republicans are still in the running. The Sunday shows actually take up the "Alaska is close to Russia" theme? Without laughing? Just the fact that these people who play newscasters in the mainstream media pretend that this is an issue is indicative that they are propping this party up to keep the race competitive. It's just good business.

Unfortunately, this fantasy shadow boxing could last all the way until November.

Palin vs Obama is the wrong conversation

Could you ask your guests about the NYT on how the battle ground states for the next 60 days? For all the talk about shifting demographics and changing tactics, it seems to be shaping up as a rerun of the 2004 electoral map. What happened? Can Democrats really hope to gain any ground here? Can the GOP expect to hold on to the same states they did in 2004?

McCain's argument is ludicrous! Are the Russians aiming missiles at us? Ridiculous!

Palin just had an interview.
This NYT reporter has yet to grasp what is going on in the race.

I don't know why the media at large and the Democrats are letting McCain, Palin, Giuliani etc get away with all the outright LIES that they perpetrated in front of 39 million voters last week. If you say to the people he will raise your taxes, and what he has said is he will raise for a few percent and lower for the rest, this statement is a LIE. And therefore, they are LIARS. (This, btw, is a quote from Rachel Maddow, up and coming GREAT commentator on MSNBC.) I wish she weren't the lone person who sees that this is Obama's Swiftboating and if he and the media give the Republicans a free pass it is shameful.

Obama is slipping, that much is clear, but...there is lots of race left to go and Palin has yet to face the press.
Should be good

Hey "chris o" Sorry you didn't get the metaphor... WNYC has a fairly young idealistic audience. The Starbucks latte crowd who have a lot of time on their hands and who bang away
on their laptop spewing prose with little knowledge the world around them including very little knowledge of history. Put down that laptop and read a history book... You would be suprised what you can learn. Remember 9/11
NPV, Retired law enforcement

Can I offer a small critique of the media here (even though I don't buy into the conspiracy theories about the so-called "Mainstream Corporate Media," etc.)?

When there's talk about tax increases, can we talk about how much the tax would increase and who would be affected (this show answered this question somewhat)? How much would one have to make before Obama's plan would raise taxes? And by how much? What would current top rate of 35% become?

Same with capital gains. I think the current rate is 15%. How much would Obama raise that too? When you don't give specifics, then it just leaves the impression that these tax increase would be these monstrous things (when they really won't be).

That's what I'd like to hear from the news media.

From the Obama campaign, I want them to shoot back at the Republicans for lying to people for suggesting that some massive tax increase is coming.

Could you please ask your guests to comment on the NYT article over the weekend on the battle ground states over the next 60 days? For all the talk of shifting demographics and changing tactics, it looks to be shaping up as a rerun of the 2004 election--although it appears that Florida has been taken off the table. Can the Democrats expect to make any ground here? Will the GOP be able to hold on to the states they claimed in 2004?

Contrary to what your guest has stated, McCain was against repealing Roe v Wade in 1999. However, by 2007 that had changed.

GOP change - we gonna go to washington to take the country back - FROM OURSELVES, we really did a horrible job!

There are no limits to Republican shame. Shame is not a concept they understand.

Palin gives one speech and they swoon and love her and declare her up to the task. This after months and months of saying "just words" and "good speeches" are meaningless to solving problems etc.

Palin is unknown to everyone. She instantly becomes a massive hit and star of the party even though they know barely anything about her. This is the essence of celebrity and they are guilty. Meanwhile, Obama fights and earns his way to the top, starting with very low ratings, and they have the nerve to dismiss it as celebrity...

That tiny little crabby voice flailing out unfocused, from the orchestrated howls of the crowd, was the creepiest thing I have heard. It sounded at once pathetic and yet still ......creepy!

1.) Lemmings' deaths are not suicides (not that you said so), but evidence of their genes' success at reproducing themselves---there's just not enough room for them all, the political equivalent would be left-wing candidates' losing to each other.

Where there may be a parallel: Disney "documentarians" evidently once _pushed_ some lemmings off a cliff, and called it suicide..."Disney" here can stand in for any of the large, soulless, psychotic, legal "persons" who run things.

2.) "Far left"? "Far left"!? If only. The Democratic Party at its leftiest is like the left wing of an European Christian Democratic party, and getting more Christy by the moment. The delusion that any major player in the D.P. is very left-wing can only be put down to 1.) invincible ignorance or 2.) the lack of a real, major, left-wing party against which to compare it, or 3.) preference for lulz over facts.

George Bush drives country off cliff. Republicans pray for 4 more years.

While many people believe that lemmings commit mass suicide when they migrate, this is not the case. They just repeat and spread and reality does not matter.

Lemmings defined: Small artic rodents with short tails and fur covered feet. In their growth cycle they undertake spectular mass migrations at peaks of population growth , ultimately falling off cliffs into the sea of destruction. These animals are very similar to those of the ultra left wing of the Democratic party. FDR, Truman, JFK where have you gone???
NPV, Sea Cliff, N.Y.