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War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)

Interesting show. Haven't been to anything. I'm 52 and grew up in suburban New Jersey. We had 2 WWII former POW's on my block and several additional WWII vets including my father and uncle. A nearby family we were friends with (very anti-Vietnam War) had a partiarch who piloted 30 bombing missions over the Ploieşti oil fields in WWII. I don't remember any of these people or any of my friends ever going to a funeral for a fallen Vietnam soldier and I'd bet most of these people voted for Nixon and had flag decals on their windshields. (Remenber the John Prine song?)Dead and disabled vets from these little unpopular wars have a way of "disappearing" in our society. Unfortunatly, once you have a designated "____Day" for anything it usually means that people have forgottten about it for the other 364 days of the year. Considering how many people vote, I guess that includes Election Day. God bless our planet.

I'd like to expand on Tricia's comment [17]--actually, with something that WNYC could do to honor the military personnel killed in Iraq & Afghanistan. When the NewsHour is rebroadcast on WNYC at 11 pm, if there's an honor roll of those killed, all we hear is the silence in which the photos are shown. If it goes on a long time, we're told the photos are being shown in silence. But we lose the visual info Tricia mentioned--their names, ages, & ranks. And those are important. You could even say they're the point of the honor roll. So could someone read this info on the air? Some of us often don't see the NewsHour on TV (that's why I listen to it at 11), & I think it would be an appropriate thing to do.

I march in the parade with my Girl Scouts. We greet old vets and hear a speech from a retired soldier about the meaning of this day.

We always send Girl Scout cookies to soldiers and have collected school supplies for kids in Afghanistan and toiletries for our soldiers.

My troop also bakes cookies, which are delivered each year to Scarsdale vets on Veterans' Day.

I, personally, have "adopted" soldiers for a period of time, sending them magazines and treats and have donated to various organizations that help our soldiers.

One caller to the show suggested that the Americans fighting in Iraq are doing so to protect our freedom to protest. This oft-repeated claim is nonsense. Saddam Hussein posed no threat to our freedom of speech.

The War in Iraq is a war of aggression, and all American soldiers had the option to refuse to serve. Many soldiers and their families did and still seem to believe the war is a just one. To those who were willing to invade another country and slaughter it's inhabitants, what honor should be paid?

We can pity them for their foolishness, decry the lack of education that led them to believe the war was good and mourn their lost potential. However, "honor their sacrifice" above the sacrifice of their victims (who so greatly outnumber them), this patriot (and son of a veteran) will never do.

It is complicated because I know these soldiers are doing their duty, I know they are there to protect and defend the country. But the political leadership has sent them off on an unjustified, illegal, imperialistic, vengeful war in Iraq. So it is hard to support them when I know we are in the wrong in this Iraq war and I just want us to leave.

I think that the callers who can't separate opposition to particular wars from commemorating the deaths of the soldiers or supporting of the troops, who fought in them have the better part of the argument.
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How can one "support the troops" in Iraq by making their sacrifice meaningless?
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Like most Germans, about 20% of US voters will figure out a rationale, eventually, to oppose virtually all conflicts that involve their country's troops actually firing weapons in earnest, even if, as in the case of Iraq, this requires refusing to acknowledge that a shift to a proper strategy has brought substantial results.

When I was growing up in the late 70s, I honestly believed there would be no more wars. Sadly, this has not come to pass. Instead of just grizzled men walking in a sparsely attended parade, representing 50 years' survival after wars most of us can't remember, soldiers today are young and often maimed, and their sacrifice is ongoing. I do not support the war in Iraq and I am ashamed that our young people have been put in such an untenable position in an unwinnable war.
I have never participated in a Memorial Day celebration as an adult, yet today I went to my children's school and watched my son help other students lay a wreath on our memorial while the high school band played taps. Other children lowered the flag to half-mast. It was very moving--I think more attention needs to be paid to the sacrifice that other people's children have made over the years for this country. I do find the deaths of soldiers worth remembering. I was glad to be there to express our gratitude, regardless of whether I agree with this war (which I don't).

last post, the nyt has an interesting interactive tool on its site

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/us/20061228_3000FACES_TAB1.html#

Sugar...that is silly

"At a minimum, I could stand and clap as they walk by."

I've seen exactly that happen at a few airports in the south over the last several years, namely Atlanta, Charlotte, Louisville. Its just this area of the country. NY'ers (and to a lesser degree) the tri-state region is packed with self-centered, self-absorbed types seething with greed and materialistic insecurity. Pre-9/11 walking around NYC in dress blues, the few people that did acknowledge you usually made some snide commment, like "hey Paulie look whats my buildin's doorman doin' heah?" for about a month after 9/11 it was different, then it got back to normal. So don't go trying to spread this guilt trip about apathy to include Americans in a broad sense, its this area

I watch the names of the soldiers who have been killed at the end of the Jim Lehrer show on PBS. I'm so often struck by the ages of the dead. These are children. War has few if any heroes, only victims. I have trouble with the logic of these children are dying in order that I have the right to protest. If an enemy were landing in new York harbor that might be the case, but they're not. These children are dying to prop up a government lie, a myth that we (or many of us)have all been raised to believe in. My father who saw significant combat action in World War II, always said he couldn't imagine any father who had live through the experience permitting his child to follow in his footsteps.

this may seem silly, but I send a basket of treats to the soldiers through Fairway. it has all the stuff soldiers need: beef jerky, baby wipes, popcorn....!

As an addition: Of course, if any of my friends had died (or if any of them will die) in Iraq or Afghanistan, I would of course be devestated. But I would be upset because I lost my friend, not because this warrior supposedly defending my rights had died. I would mourn the person, not the soldier because that's all I have known them as.

michael winslow 33
what about your freedom to have cheap oil and plastic?

When I think of the many fallen soldiers who have perished for the faults of Washington egomaniacs, is very disheartening for me as an American and as a 23 y/o. I hate to see the death of so many young people... it forces me to face my own mortality.

David -

You are not entirely correct. Many of the National Guardsmen got in before the war for the pay and benefits (and maybe to play soldier). They did not anticipate multiple tours of duty in Iraq, stop-loss and etc.

Some of the professional soldiers see the war differently. As incredible as it seems, even now, some people actually support Bush and his war. I met a soldier who was massively damaged in an explosion and who is completely without self-pity or regret. He has framed photos of his president on the wall of his study. He can't actually see the photos because one eye was blown out of his head and he is essentially blind in the other eye.

I think actually having many, many friends who have enlisted (and I'm considering it myself to be honest) has made me LESS sympathetic of this argument about them "sacrificing" or "defending our freedoms". None of my friends had that in mind. Possible death or severe injury either wasn't even on their radar or just an acceptable risk. They wanted pay, they wanted a freed ride for school (not that that's a reality anymore), they wanted to look like the guys in the commercials, and at least one of them wanted to kill some Arabs as a stated goal.

here's a list of americans who died in iraq http://icasualties.org/oif/USDeaths.aspx

David

Here! Here!

Agree whole heartly.

These people in Iraq did not DIE for my freedoms.

That's rediculous!

Just like the soldiers who died in Viet Nam didn't die for my freedoms.

While traveling through rural south central New Hampshire some years ago I saw this sign (I think it was in Greenfield, NH):

"This memorial is dedicated to all of the patriotic men and women who served in any of the armed forcces. It is with sincere hope that their sacrifices were not in vain and that some day the inhumanities imposed by armed conflict will forever cease to exist."

I like this because it acknowledges the soldiers, but does not glorify war.

I am a member of the Daughters of the American Revolution and I DO NOT BELIVEVE that this war has anything to do with my FREEDOM!!!
Cynthia

As a pacifist, I feel that I can't support anything to do with war. This is a hard stance to take and has gotten me in trouble with a lot of friends.

However, the soldiers are part of the military industrial complex. They've made a decision to be warriors.

In the 60s we used to say, "What if we gave a war and no one showed up?"

as far as celebrating memorial day, it is difficult to feel guilty when, as a civilian, you are constantly told that your participation in the economy IS your duty.

There is a wonderful Memorial Day Concert held at the Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn. It is a wonderful old fashion way to observe the day. The concert always has a review of the colors - playing the song for each branch of the military. I attended first after Sept 11 and is now a tradition

Concert is free at 2PM

Leslie McKinley
Brooklyn

I'm ashamed that I've done nothing beyond thanking military families for their service when I treat their children as a pediatrician.

I fly frequently. It would be easy for me to buy soldiers in the airport a beer or a sandwich, give them my aisle seat, or buy them a snack or a drink when the tray goes by.

At a minimum, I could stand and clap as they walk by.

I have mixed feelings about the war, but I respect our soldiers. Time for me to walk the walk. Thanks for the segment.

Pain in the Families?...don't join if you don't want pain...protest at the White House...protest everywhere and at all times...soldiers join not to protect "freedom' a child believes that..they join cause they wanna carry guns

To the caller; troops in Iraq are not dying to defend our freedoms or rights to protest. That is a very naive view.

Soldiers have to do what they're told, but when Louis says they went to Iraq to "defend" us, she's wrong. We were in no danger - Iraq was a third-rate military power with no WMD, and the loyal Bushies knew that.

this website has a comprehensive listing of fallen soldiers, tracking back through the war ~ day by day:

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/honor.html

from time to time i check in, read the names & where they are from, see the photos, read a little something about the individual, then take a moment to meditate on the impact of that person's life, the loss to their family & community.

while my friend was posted over there (thankfully he came back in good health) i sent many, many care packages and always tried to include something to make him laugh - like a copy of "The Onion."

Brian,

On the PBS News Hour, nearly every night at the very end of thier broadcast, they have an honor roll of the fallen, along with pictures of the soldiers. They do it without fanfare and in a very respectful manner.

Since Vietnam, I'm sure that it's just fine with the government that there are no mass observances of Memorial Day. They hide the bodies, and try to hide the wounded. Vietnam opened the door from grief to rage.

Artist Lisa Anne Auerbach created a knitting pattern for "Body Count Mittens", in which you knit the number of US soldiers killed in Iraq. The number changes as you work and is meant to stimulate public discussion about the war. http://www.stealthissweater.com/patterns/index.html

Steve~ It IS difficult to participate in anything to do with the war. So true. The distruction of the society of people in Iraq is way beyond horrifying. I say.let Americans have tanks rolling down their streets and they would change their tune pronto.
Cynthia

I think Veterans Day is treated more like what Memorial Day apparently used to be.

I watch the Newshour on PBS. They show the photos and basic identity information of our fallen military people of Iraq and Afghanistan at the end of the Newshour. In silence. No cheesy music. Just showing the photos, names, ranks, ages... I stop everything. I look at them and honor them. Yeah, I usually cry.

And I'm with organizations fighting for better benefits -- especially better healthcare for veterans. I donate to organizations that provide care packages, Girl Scout cookies, and entertainment. When I see people in uniform on our streets, I thank them and tell them we're fighting for them, too. I feel I can't do enough and that our government certainly isn't doing enough.

But I'm glad to know we can do more. I didn't know that the public was allowed to attend military funerals. I didn't know I could send cards to the family. Thanks for that info. Honoring them is totally separate from my complete disagreement with our elected government officials who created and "manage" this war.

I can't get through on the phone.

I am a Hebrew School director and Jewish service leader. When I lead services with kids and adults, I always mention our soldiers during the Mishebarach (the prayer for healing) and the Kaddish (the mourner's prayers. I have written to clergy encouraging them to include our soldiers in their services in a non-political way. if we believe in the power of prayer, why is our soldiers being ignored in our prayers?

actually, i mis-spoke, on a couple of occasions i've ridden my motorcycle to the rolling thunder memorial day rally. as much of a personal adventure as anything else. but it did make me feel connected to fellow bikers and to the memory of fallen soldiers.

http://www.rollingthunder1.com/

ok Memorial Day great...thanks for fighting wars for me...but fighting off the huns in WW2 and the "wars" we fight now are 2 different things...I for 1 keep the soldiers in the 2 eras far apart...

Supporting the troops is supporting the war.

Respecting the troops is respecting the war.

Everyone who elected to die in Iraq did so voluntarily and for pay.

No lives have been sacrificed in Iraq. They've only been wasted.

If we really want Memorial Day and the sacrifice of our military to have impact, I say bring back the draft. When the burden of going to war is carried by "others" and doesn't fall on all of us, it's too easy to pretend it doesn't exist. I am the mother of two young children, and the thought of what the mothers of all those thousands of service men and women, all of whom were someone's baby, is horrifying. But I don't do anything about it, I'm just as guilty as all the rest of us. I know if there was a chance that my children would go to war, I'd be doing a hell of a lot more. That's my shame.

ALL wars are political! People are terribly confused about these issues. It's awfully difficult to "salute" deaths that one perceives to have been in vain, and to be the consequences of criminal policies.

It's not that it's difficult to care, but it's difficult to want to participate in anything having to do with the war. Because Bush determined before 9/11 (see Paul O'Neill's book) to invade, it's difficult to comprehend what's happened. Thousands of soldiers dead, hundreds of thousands of dead innocent Iraqis, and million of refugees - Iraqis tortured, humiliated, and beaten. It is impossible to believe, but the administration got away with it.

I am (46) and a member of the DAR and will march in the Memorial Day Parade with my teenage kids. We pack boxes for the troops and are present on occasions such as tributes and parades. You gotta teach the kids to be present at certain events. I don't have any family serving now but some of my relatives served in WW2 and Korea.

It is totally possible to be against the current war while being patriotic.

Love the show
Cynthia

Didn't the Bush Administration forbid news organizations from taking pictures and video of the caskets of the fallen when they are flown back to the U.S. in order to avoid public outcry? That certainly doesn't help the awareness of the terrible human cost of this war.

its not America its this area. Other parts of the country aren't like this

There are no more noble wars. Never will be.

How do you pay tribute to men & women who fight and kill in unhonorable wars?

Is unhonorable a word? :)

Vote & protest and get these fine women & men home safe and sound.

Vote responsibly.

the best way to honor our war dead is to work to end the war, to vote out the government, and to prosecute the deceitful politicians, such as, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc, who robbed them of their lives.

might want to target your question toward people at the tail end of the baby boom...too young for vietnam, too old for either of the gulf wars.

i don't do anything for any unknown soldier...i did once shake a soldier's hand as he was coming in at the airport. and i give them all a nod of respect for their service whenever we cross paths.

i pause and think of my uncle, who served in korea.

I'm from Israel...the teachers in high school would ask students to volunteer to honor the fallen soldier alums on Memorial Day, by visiting his site and standing silent during the 1min siren.

On Israel's Memorial Day 1995 I volunteered to stand by a fallen soldier's grave site.

His family eventually did arrive, but for the longest time I was the only one standing by his grave. I still remember his name.

The Government has forcibly taken my taxes to fun an elective war in Iraq. Time to bring the troops home, and spend the trillion dollars on universal healthcare, national defense (not elective war) and reducing the deficit.

it's same significance as christmas and thanksgiving.
unitedstaters are too busy for sentimentally.
i'll take a bison burger with cheddar