wnyc.org / 93.9fm / am 820

Yes, there is summmer learning loss. We just have to accept that and continue to build review into fall curriculum. I never learned to , fish, backpack, build tree forts, play wiffleball etc in school. At the same time, much "real" learning does involve memorization. Just because it requires memorization doesn't mean its "bad". It's essential for laerning a musical instrument, a second language and virtually all subjects. Good education has the right balance of critical thinking and memorization.
MY PLAN:
A-The primary, middle and high school experience should be extended from 12 to 14 or more years. The extra time should go towards school at a less frenetic pace, more sleep, more down time for a variety of physical fitnesss and community service activities. How about cooking classes in HS?
B- School day should be longer but all homework done at school. When kids get home at 6:00 or so their tie should be their's for reading, family, friends,sleep.
Modern American adults already extend their adolescence well into their late 20's and beyond. What's the rush to start college at age 18? Most colleges find incoming freshmen too imature anyway.

i agree susan. i guess that was just a typo ... :)

Summer vacation is about not about giving the mind a break! Children construct knowledge through play, social interaction, creativity, and reading for fun. I have six children, and I am a teacher. Two of my children graduated high school with honors, the others are doing very well in school, and we never did summer school or any formal summer learning. They come home with some summer homework which we tackle in bits once in a while. Just make sure you and your kids read alot for enjoyment, go to the library. And get out and play, see new things, create with art, in the sandbox, excercise. Excercise has an effect on cognitive ability. So does music, theatre (see my staycation comment for more free or affordable summer activities available in the city)sports, museums, nature, and conversation about these experiences. Read, play and talk alot to your kids, and they will come back to school with lots of new knowledge and skills without even knowing they have been learning., Any facts they "forgot" will reemerge from their memories, or be relearned within a short period.

Hmm, why do kids hate school again? Maybe think about this before you try to make it a year round institution.

I don't think in the US we will go to a full-year school term, though we could probably benefit from additional days of school. I think the concern is greater for the children who do not have "learning" opportunities during the summer such as attending camps that cater to their interests or whose parents are able to stay home during the day. These children are often economically disadvantaged and may be those who are struggling in school. While a longer school year may not solve the problem (of forgetting material & keeping up with reading & math skills), these children need to have structured opportunities to learn other skills, engage in non-academic activities and be around peers who may have some of the same interests. I don't know enough about the programs these guests are speaking about, but summer camps often cost money, especially if activities include things other than kicking a ball around. So rather than discussing a longer school year which is unlikely to happen anytime soon (yes the teachers need a break too), let's figure out a way to engage more children in fun productive activities during the summer!

Jack: Yeah, I agree. Wikipedia's entry on deschooling puts it a bit more critically:

"[...] Institutionalized schooling is used as a tool for the engineering of an ignorant, conformist working class through constant schedules and prearranged time blocks and one-size-fits-all teaching methods.

Montessori schools and other alternatives do look promising, though it's too bad that only well to do parents will be able to afford it. Less well off parents will either not know about such alternatives and will have more difficulty paying for them in any case.

Such alternative schooling philosophies are too much at odds with the way education policy-makers (technocrats like Gold) think to become mainstream though. So it's no surprise that the public school system will continue to produce an ignorant, conformist working class. Our education system is working as designed after all.

#19
Karen,

do you think summer vaca is good idea then?

The idea that the brain needs a 2 month rest is not just an archaic notion abandoned in the nineteenth century; it also speaks to the mind needing time to give time to personal and spiritual growth of the sort that is nurtured by the quiet experience of calm forms of nature. Think of how much harder it is to concentrate on your job or your school work when painful things are happening in your personal life. In other words, young people under constant outside pressure in school, need time to give to their emotional/spiritual mind/selves.

Agreed "A" (#13) most school curriculum nowadays is a waste of time. That's because it's all based on outdated notions of training a workforce and not much else. Since there's little to no manufacturing in the U.S. any more, most of what is taught is forgotten because it never gets used in the real world.

Montessori methods seem like a reasonable solution, but there needs to be middle ground nowadays. Perhaps creating a true apprentice system for high schoolers for example? That way true "year round" learning exists because the students will actually see and experience real work use of their skills.

I took science and math classes in high school and college and other than learning enough to get past the next test, I remember 100% of nothing.

Robert, of course not! Kids don't learn language skills unless teachers are talking to them. If they did, we wouldn't need teachers!

This guest sounds an annoying education technocrat. Bleh.

Summer is a time to enjoy without school work killing it!
My boys and I read books to each other and talked until the were teenagers and then we read books in parallel and talked about them. It's a great way to connect and have a rich intellectual life.

BTW kids model what happens in their home; if parents read, kids do too.

You mean all that time spent in school I was loosing 1 month of learning a year because of summer vacation? How did I ever make it into the real world with having lost so much learning time because of summer vacation? How has American society gone on with such an atrocity happening every summer?

Its got along just fine… There are so many things more important to worry about when it comes to our public schools. How about having enough qualified teachers who want to teach to start off with?

Not all kids have the option of the summer off due to Bloomberg's promotion policy

Brett: Exactly! It's a well known fact that most students forget everything after finals. That's the way incentives in the education system (grading) are currently set up, so it's no surprise students forget all the useless crap that is shoved down their throats during the school year.

Most of school curriculum is a waste of time anyway. Education and learning are not the same thing. Education is something someone does to you, learning is something you do for yourself. These professional educators are so full themselves and full of it.

So what is he saying, kids don't speak nor are spoken to over the summer!!?

Where's Brian today? I miss him.

Parents need to focus on a balance of exercise and summer reading. BALANCE! Do both, take them on educational trips and have them exercise regularly, play basketball, walk, dance, whatever sports they enjoy.

NO!!!!! Let kids have the summer off. They learn from playing. MY mom tried to make us do worksheets over the summer when we were kids and it drove me to hate math and reading for a LONG time.

Don't forget teachers need the time off as much as students do. My husband is a teacher and I think it's evident when he comes home from work, that working with children all day is a lot harder than what I do (working with adults in an office).

Once the summer comes along he is VERY ready for the break and doesn't mind the review he has to do with his kids when he returns at the beginning of the school year.

We are making kids crazy. Leave them alone.

Sometimes summer learning is overkill. Instead of my child reading at his leisure and participating in an informal learning setting, he is a slave to worksheets and to do lists. Keep the reading list, but let the kids have fun!

Some universities, like Princeton, have finals AFTER breaks, rather than before - I don't think they do this for summer, but I know that Princeton students have finals for their fall semester at the start of spring semester

although the impending doom ruins your break, I'm sure they remember more than I do, since I tend to forget everything right after finals at the start of break

i am not an expert on these matters, but i will support both your guests, since i think the YMCA and CSI are good organizations.

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but the question as posed raises the question for me of /schooling/ for people under the legal age at which people attain adulthood - 18 - call them /children/. i would like those people to attain enough knowledge about z to enable them to live the way they choose.

all i can do, therefore, is, when i come into contact with children, in person or in some other way, to show by my thoughts and actions what i think that z is.

for me part of it is enough formal education so that they can make their daily bread and part of it is an opportunity to help that person figure out who they want to be. which i think /long summer holidays/ do. so i support them. and i hope the children figure out they want to be /good/ people by my definition of good.

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darn, that was hard. and too long. but there we are.

Whatever you do -- hide the wiffle bats!

Yep. It would better serve to indoctrinate them into the American culture of work and subservience to man.

Year-round school could actually reduce the federal deficit over the long term if we could use the extra time to make room for a solid, daily 1.5 hours of physical education, thereby reducing state costs for obesity/overweight/inactivity related illnesses. I mean a real physical training program, a full 90 minutes of running/jogging, calisthenics, pull-ups and especially push-ups. No more of this picked-last-for-baseball-stuff where the little guys just sit on the sidelines gossiping.
What's the purpose of this plan?
1) prevent the epidemic of Type II Diabetes by giving kids an active physical training, which helps prime the body to produce insulin; 2) thereby preventing heart disease since T2D and heart disease are linked; 3) prevent drug abuse, as active kids are less likely to dabble in drugs; 4) fight childhood obesity and childhood depression; 5) reduce cases of so-called "attention deficit disorder" - many of which may just be a case of forcing kids, esp. boys, to sit in class for hours on end with no release.
BTW, has Brian done a show on the American Pediatric Association's suggestion from last week that it's okay to start prescribing lipitor to 8-year-olds? Woof! There's gotta be a better way, folks, and there is, and it doesn't require giving lipitor to the kiddies.

Year round schooling will never happen, but it would be a great idea. One of the reasons I found over here in Europe that it works is that families get 5 weeks of holidays, so they have a summer and winter vacation. If you have year round schooling, you also need a situation where students get two breaks. A winter break and a summer break and because of this parents have to be around when their kids aren't in school.