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Why is a story in where a woman chooses not to have an abortion necessarily an “ultimately conservative affirmation of family values”? Doesn't this point of view give credence to the notion that conservatives have a monopoly on “family values” and reinforce the stereotype of the irresponsible liberal using abortion as birth control?

We can criticize these movies for being sentimental, but I don't think we should criticize them for not adhering to liberal orthodoxy.

how many artists in their various explorations
are concerned with the hipness of a thing? come on! Relevance I will buy but that is not hipness - hipness is more like fashionable ("edgy?" another silly word which the truly daring don't bother with) - it all seems to take up too much space in thought!

What the hell is wrong with "mainstream' people getting a concept?

How about connecting "sincerity is the new irony" to Obama's appeal to the young?
Or to the fact that we're in a national election year? politicians are almost always (trying to seem) sincere.

What a great convo! Brian, pls bring Dana (and maybe Art Spiegelman) back to continue this discussion. The sincerity/irony axis is a really timely exploration of the perpetual mainstreaming of outsider culture, and as the RATE of that mainstreaming increases, its really interesting to see how this generation of cultural creators (young Gen-X/older millennials) deals with it.

#14, #15 and one of those last callers nailed it pretty good. Hipsterism isn't a sophistication of thinking; it's more being attuned to fashion. Irony seems to have been sharper "back in the day"

http://www.exclaim.ca/articles/research.aspx?csid1=56

Post-millennial culture is hardly as flip as it once was, but our enjoyment has simply become nuanced — just count off the mesh caps or ‘80s-era rock Ts at a White Stripes or Broken Social Scene show. But those bands are strictly serious while other musicians... are creating a multi-layered aesthetic that could best be called sincere irony. ...

It’s that dedication to detail that the sincere ironists bring to the table because they’re honestly attempting to reinvigorate a maligned genre they once loved. But they maintain credibility by acknowledging what made it maligned in the first place.

Savvy artists and audiences realise that sucking and rocking are not mutually exclusive and that a spoonful of humour can help the electro-funk go down. So groups like Chromeo are hoping that even if you think their music is a little cheeseball, which it is, you’ll still smile and come to appreciate its good qualities thanks to the strength of their songcraft. There might be some novelty in their get-ups and equipment, but the music is no joke.

The sappiness in these movies runs parallel to both plots avoiding the option of abortion. Granted there wouldn't be a movie if the protagonists decided to terminate their pregnancies, but I found that the hip, edgy movies became muted because they went the "Lifetime" route, to use Brian's term.

Is sincerity a sign of hope?

A caller just said the "Irony is the new sincerity." I wonder, we've had a really bad couple of years-9/11, the Bush administration, etc.--and for a long time, irony was one of our only forms of defense.

Now, just maybe, our long national nightmare is showing signs of ending, and maybe as the numbness wears off, we can return to sincerity.

#11

Totally agree

I was most struck that in Juno, there was no impediment to this girl's solution to her dilemma: her parents were understanding, she was completely in control, there never was any suspense or conflict. Also, her lines were far too crafted to be believably coming from a 16-year-old.

The combination of hipness + sentimentality as a lack of sophistication and quality, frankly. If you compare hip + sentimental films to films like Fellini's "8 1/2" to name just one of very many, the latter is sophisticated (one might even say hip) and yet relates true human experience/emotion without being sentimental.

I teach teens and make comics for teens and college students, and I definitely see young people often being confused by irony.
I just don't think sincerity should be confused with heavy-handedness, which I felt about Knocked Up. I just saw Super-Bad, and felt like I cared much more about the characters because it wasn't trying to "tackle issues" as much.

I think The Opposite of Sex is the best example of the sort of film you are discussing - smarter and funnier and more moving than Knocked Up - I think you can see the roots of this sort of movie in screwball films from the 30's and 40's. Just a couple of thoughts.

I think that it comes into play in Presidential Race and some of the rhetoric. For instance, at one moment Barack Obama is using rhetoric reminiscent of the 1960's, then he says something like "Let's give it up for Michelle Obama." And somehow the lofty rhetoric of the past jives with to more common street talk that we hear in the entertainment media of today.

hipness seems to me the opposite of authenticity

"Once" is a great example of a sincere film - however, I wouldn't classify it as "sentimental." I suppose it might be called "hip" because it stars a famous (in Ireland) Irish rock star (Glen Hansard), but given the age of the main character (37) it probably doesn't rate as "hip" with the kids. Thank god - what could be worst than a genre of film than "hip" films??

Is your guest unable to have a Wes Andergasm? Did she like The Royal Tenenbaums?

how about some contrast. what are some non-sentimental, hip movies. comedies or romances specifically. Raising Arizona – sentimental. perhaps this is not a new phenomenon.

Sincerity is also the hallmark of some current novelists -- e.g., Dave Eggers, Heidi Julavits (who wrote that Believer mag diatribe in praise of sincerity).

I agree with Luke about sincerity replacing irony. A perfect example is the singer Kimya Dawson owning a large chunk of the "Juno" soundtrack. She writes about loving her family and friends, not about getting drunk or high and pissing people off. And what's not cool about that?

I'd have to agree with the first comment.
When will we see a funny, realistic movie about the healthy aspects of abortion.

I disagree with the guests assessment of Wes Anderson Films. I find them very moving and sentimental. It may be gender specific. I really connected with the brothers form Anderson's latest film, The Darjeeling Limited.

Neither Knocked up or Juno, were funny enough or smart enough to be entertaining.

Just a reminder, one of Brian's previous guests, Michael Hirschorn, called Knocked Up the ANTI-quirk movie.

Can anything be said about the mumblecore genre? Those movies are as hip as they come, and practically drowning in emo-appeal.

This is the shallowest most ridiculous "cred" there is - "hipness" vs sentimentality. What pray tell is hipness and who has it? A critical straitjacket if you ask me

Could it be due to the fact that the filmmakers of today have such affection for the '80s sentimentalism of movies like The Breakfast Club?

I find the universal acclaim for these movies distressing, since both are covert apologies for traditional values, particularly Knocked Up.