wnyc.org / 93.9fm / am 820

Continuing...

"So here’s why this matters. If Obama can break 30% in a 5-delegate district where Edwards doesn’t meet the threshold, he’ll win 40% of the delegates. (If Edwards runs strongly without breaking 15%, it might be much easier for Obama. If Hillary, for example, takes 60%, Obama 26%, and Edwards 14%, Obama still wins 40% of the delegates.) The six-delegate math works differently, but in those Democratic bastions Obama is likely to run strongest, and may even outpace Hillary. In short, assuming Edwards stays below 15%, these rules give a strong advantage to Obama, and are likely to sharply limit the overall advantage Hillary enjoys in her own state. "

RE: "Will my vote for Edwards count?"

I found a link to a 1/28 NY Times article and among the comments to it there are explanations. See:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/28/mysteries-of-new-york-democratic-delegates-explained/

To summarize the comments, only if in any Congr. District Edwards gets at least 15% of the vote will he get a proportion of the 5 or 6 delegates of that C.Distr. If he gets 14%, then no Edwards delegate; but the remaining 86% get skewed. See the NY Times comment below and my follow-on post for an example. Larry in Nyack

"Let’s illustrate this with an example. Say that one candidate receives 31%, and another 69%, in a 5-delegate district. The former receives (.31×5=1.55) one delegate, and the latter (.69×5=3.45). But because the first candidate had the larger fractional remainder, he scores the fifth delegate. So 31% of the vote yields 40% of the delegates. (In the six-delegate districts, it works like this: (.31×6=1.86) and (.69×6=4.14). So here, 31% yields 33% of the delegates.) Or, in a three-candidate race, it might look like this. Candidate A, 54%; Candidate B, 31%; Candidate C, 15%. The delegates would split 3 (2.7), 1 (1.55), 1 (.75) or in a 6-delegate district, 3, 2, and 1. " more...

I agree that Doug Kellner's commentary was the most confusing thing I have heard in weeks. I was driving when he came on and had to pull over to scratch my head with both hands.

???

Will SOMEONE please help me understand the gender division between the delegates and what that means when you actually vote. Please explain this as simply as you possibly can. I listened to the webcast of Doug Kellner explaining it about 10 times and still cannot for the life me understand what he's talking about.

I googled with much effort as well, found a few articles which also didn't explain it.

This has made me incredibly frustrated and depressed.

In response to my query sent to Brooklyn for Barack about gender-balanced delegates and voting for delegates other than the full slate of five pledged (in my CD there are only five listed on the ballot) to my candidate, I received the following reply:

Hi, Amanda. Thank you for reaching out. To answer your question, there is no benefit to Senator Obama to vote for Hillary Clinton Delegates. If you are a supporter of Senator Obama, please vote for his entire slate - that means all of his delegates in CD 12 and for Barack Obama as well.

The delegates for CD 12 are:

Paul Newell
Allison Davis
Matthew Cowherd
Rachel Lauter
Daniel Tietz

Thank you for your support.

Is there someone who can explain Douglas Kellner's explanation of gender-balanced delegates?

Desperate

I wish someone in the newsmedia would answer this question regarding electronic voting machines:

How is it that I, and millions of other people around the world, can use ATM banking machines securely, yet we can't seem to design an electronic voting machine that's as secure? It seems to me that the technology clearly exists. People conduct millions of secure transactions every day via ATM. So far, no one's hacked my account.

In addition, the objections to the machines that your guest raised (and seems to be litigating) could all be easily addressed. Poor quality seals that aren't number coded to the computer — you can't tell me that they couldn't fix this; unencrypted microchips — in fact, this is also easily fixable, as they are available off the shelf; machines that are unsecure — hmmm, well, lock them up when the arrive at their voting stations. None of these objections are insurmountable. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater?

The simple idea that optical scanners are the best possible technology available to us is ludovite propaganda. Why use 40 year old technology when the latest technology is available, inexpensive and, frankly, so much better?

I live in Brooklyn. Along with Diane and others, I am still confused about the gender division of the delegates, and other aspects of the Democratic party delegate-election part of tomorrow's ballot. I was unable to get any information about the names of the delegates that will appear on the ballot or clarification of the choices and what they mean from either the League of Women Voters or the New York HQ of the Democratic Party. The latter suggested I call my candidate's Brooklyn office, and supplied me with Clinton's office number but said he did not have a working number for Obama's office.

I expect to vote early tomorrow and hope I can get some clarification on this issue before 6 a.m.

I'm very confused about the gender delegate-split issue mentioned on the show. I noticed that, on a sample ballot, the gender of the delegate is clearly indicated and that Clinton and Obama each have an equal number of men and women delegates (not counting the alternate). So why would I not vote straight across for the candidate of my choice? If there is some secret strategy needed, please respond before the end of polling tomorrow!
Thanks.
Diane

For those who want to check your voter status in New York state, check out votersearch.org -- it's a really simple interface, respects privacy, and tells you what the Board of Election thinks your registration is...and it was built by volunteers.

Then, after you vote, keep this discussion going -- in real time -- at a Super Fat Tuesday (election day + mardi gras) event -- http://www.superfattuesday.com)

I'm disturbed by the volume of comments left by what appears to be very interested voters in that it speaks to how easy it is for even EDUCATED people to be mystified by the voting process. I consider myself an informed voter for the most part, yet I too find it a hugely confusing process. NYS Board of Elections website is more difficult to decipher than the IRS'! And questions concerning the primary (which are shared by many posters here) are absent. Wikipedia has more info, but isn't that a shame?! Until the democratic process becomes as transparent and easy to understand as we need for even the least of us, there will be no true democracy. I located a website for those who are interested in the popular vote: http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/

Also, to answer the question of those from NY, only a registered dem can vote in the dem primary tomorrow; GOPs in the GOP primary. Indeps are excluded. I changed my party affiliation yrs ago from Indep because of this. The law dictates that one cannot vote in a primary in the same election yr wherein the party was changed.

Hmph!

ugh! i am so sick of the clintonista parsing of words(this time by the gov of michigan- )hillary agreed to abide by the dem natl committee ruling did she not? and now she wants to "legitimise" the votes in those states-give me a break- i am so voting for obama- and the clintons are reminding me why i voted for ralph nader!

NEW JERSEY HAS VOTER ID LAWS!?!

Per the Daily Record on 1/1/08: On US Rep Steve Rothman's (D-Fair Lawn) voter drive

"U.S. Rep. Steve Rothman, D-Fair Lawn, is reaching out to those 2.8 million voters with a series of automated phone calls that remind them they can participate in the primary, as long as they bring identification or proof of residence."

I called Morris County Board of Elections - they agreed.

I called the NJ League of Women Voters - they said they will call the ACLU.

Do Obama's supporters really want to get out the vote?

I noticed that in addition to the 2 candidates on the Democratic ballot, it appears that a voter can vote for 6 of 12 delegates (6 Clinton/6 Obama). Is this the case, and, if so, can one split his/her delegate vote?

Thanks

Perhaps this is foolishly naive, but why are optical scanners necessary to use paper ballots as backup? Can't they be collected in the old proverbial lock boxes (which, yes, have been known to be hidden in storage cabinets, stolen, broken open, etc., but still ...) just in case there is a challenge?

The most insane thing about voting machines is that they are not open source. The code in those machines should be as public and scrutable as the laws that govern elections. Code is code!

I'm also curious about what would happen if I showed up tomorrow as an Independent. I wish they advertised the deadline to declare a party more. To answer the persons question earlier, Republicans do not have super delegates.

NJ also has a split by gender as NY does.
Voters not affiliated with a party are "Unaffiliated" not "uncommitted"
There are people running as dlegates not pledged to Presidential candidate and they are "Uncommitted" (I am one of them)

What happened to Lieberman's Democratic Super Delagate

I missed what your guest said about independents. I also submitted my party change to Democrat in October and was told I couldn't vote in the primary. Is New York State considering changing this rule? I find it very un-democratic as well that non-partisan registered voters cannot cast their vote in this incredibly important election...

Try this again (hit the "Comment" link for the wrong segment first time around):

The guest from New Jersey mentioned the ability to change an absentee ballot if one voted for say John Edwards, but want to switch. But say I still want to vote for John Edwards in New Jersey, will his delegates stay with him until the convention? Or will they make up their minds on their own to go with either Hillary or Obama? (You may have already answered this -- I was away on the phone for a while.) Thanks.

In New York, is there a threshold for the proportional representation of delagates within congressional districts?

If so, what's the percentage threshold?

After the vote, how will we be able to find out how our individual district voted?

I'm registered as an independent but I want to vote tomorrow for Barack. I called 200 varick street & was told I'm out of luck! Is this true? I heard u say it is the case in NJ & CT--is it the same here?

The first caller asked whether the Republicans had superdelegates like the Democrats, but no one answered this question. What is the answer?

Also, wasn't the super delegate answer invented in 1972 after the failed McGovern campaign, to prevent the "people" from having too much control over the nomination, giving the Party veto power over the people?

"Is John Edwards still on the NY ballot? If I vote for him will my vote and others across the state allow him to get delegate(s)?"

No it does not count! He is not a kingmaker. Don't waste your vote.

"Brian wants Obama so bad...so obvious."

He was all over Hillary this past year.

Voting irregularities. I summit my change or registration from independent to democrat I did it before october but they returned my registration without change.

CLINTON WILL DESTROY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY because all the new interested people in DEM because OBAMA will never go for CLINTON

What a minor point, but I wonder if the Giants parade tomorrow will cause some folks to neglect going to the polls.

Brian wants Obama so bad...so obvious.

ps also, wondering what happens if I vote for Edwards. Will he still be able to garner delegates?

How does bloomberg scheduling the Giants parade for tomorrow affect voting? Whose supporters are more likely to blow off voting and go party?

Is John Edwards still on the NY ballot? If I vote for him will my vote and others across the state allow him to get delegate(s)?

PUNCTURED PUNDITS

"Hillary can't lose."
"McCain can't win."
Where certainty ends,
Doubts begin.

One thing's for sure,
Let's duly note.
Pundits tanked---
Go out and vote.

This idea that we have democracy is upended by the fact that the popular vote counts for nothing. Address the delegate process in that light.

Can the guests explain why Independents aren't allowed to vote in the primary, the rationale? Seems rather unfair to those who wish to remain non-partisan, to be excluded from the process.

How is our vote counted. What if we vote for Mike Gravel?

He is still on the ticket. Despite your open dismissal.