wnyc.org / 93.9fm / am 820

McCain's anecdote about one of his Vietnamese torturers signing the cross on some dirt on XMas day gave me a chill. If this were a Jew the criticisms would be split between proof of the "Manchurian Candidate" (replace Jewish Cabal w Mancchurian) and "see -- look how the Jews treat their own."

I can only imagine what Americans would say had McCain replaced the Cross with that opposing army during the Crusades, the Cresent.

Serious Food for thought, I hope.

Luntz: "Did you know that McCain spent more time 'defending' American in a POW camp than Obama spent as a US senator?"

Last I checked getting shot down in an airplane and then imprisoned for 5 years afterward is not a political office. (If it were McCain obviously is more qualified).

To #60 You know what's hypocritical? Claiming P.C. when it suits your cause. Fact: He's too old to be president. Wake up and smell the Viagra.

to #60, There is a reality that must be considered. He has a hair-trigger temper. He's forgetful, he mixes up country names, He doesn't know much about the middle east, he must depend heavily on advisers with little input of his own. All I hear about is his war record. And some of that is now questionable. He's not a good speaker, I think because his mind has slowed down. I think his brain has seen better days. We have too many problems in this country to be lead by someone who needs more sleep than most.You can see all of this for yourself on YouTube, McC speaking for himself. I'm not convinced he's the best we have.

#59: "McCain is too old to be president." This perspective always perplexes me. Racism, of course, is totally inappropriate, and yet ageism seems to be all the rage these days. Very hypocritical POV.

To #56 I think you're making pretty pretty rash judgments on my post #55. I'm sure there have been ill-advised Democratic candidates who made serious gaffs, but the subject was McCain. Aren't we supposed to stay on topic? This isn't a "fair and balanced" news report. This is just a "comments" forum. I think McCain is too old to be president. He said he knows nothing about economics. Aren't you a little worried he'll hand over our economy to the very people who put us in this mess? A lot of people are worried he will hand over their
Social Security benefits to speculators on Wall St. And we're supposed to wonder if he goes to church on Sunday and how he feels about evil????And listen to old war stories???

McCain said "He knows how to get Osama bin Laden". This same guy advocated Iraq War from day zero. How dare McCain claim he knows how to get bin Laden! Everybody knew that bin Laden was in Pakistan. His so-called experience is the chain of fatal judgment. Experience is neither good nor bad literally.

Crikey on a Cracker, you NPR listeners! I can see why NeoCons can't stand you. You're a bunch of smarty pants! and I mean that in a good way.

Only Republicans have consultants who help manage their campaigns' communications.

Democrats are all unscripted and spontaneous.

Not.

Re: McCain's cross in the sand story. I suspect this is his campaign managers' goof. They've already suppressed some of his more controversial medical records, and shut down his Straight Talk Express. I think he might be well-rehearsed in what they want him to say. If he's putting his trust in them, anything can happen.

#53-- actually, I have heard this story several times in various interviews. Sorry it's so difficult for you to believe that similar events and descriptions do occur sometimes.

Reply to 49 .......Sand in the Cross story did not happen to McCain or he would have mentioned it in his extensive writings over the 30 years until it turned up.

Please read the link I gave for side-by-side analysis of McCain's previous statements about his prison guards and religion when he was a POW......

Brian, I was a big fan of the phone number code you made up: 6go7 step29.

#50

As if only Republicans care about words and language in communicating ideas.
Guess what, so does EVERYONE else in the world - government, non-profits, educational insitutions and all people.

The Dems have Lakoff and other word "manipulators" and devious Svengali spinmeisters like Kos, Carville and the Clintons and Mark Penn and the uber-image maker David Axelrod who created the Obama we know.

The lefty "chilling" at Republican consultants is funny if it wasn't so hypocritical.

What you really mean to say is I disagree with Mccain or Luntz's ideas. (that,of course, would be reasoned, unrabid, discourse)

Instead you manipulate us "dumb masses" by writing about how Luntz et. all are "chilling."

I find that rather chilling myself.
Is it so hard to simply discuss the issues - like taxes and Iraq etc... without resorting to demonizing those you disagree with?

This radio show proves that it's not.

Mr. Luntz is responsible for some of the most heinous propaganda language (climate change, death tax) in American history. He has provided extreme ideologues with tools that have hurt a vast majority of the American people (everyone that doesn't work for Haliburton, KBR). I listened and heard McCain's visceral response to "what is evil?" Additionally it was also violent, and chilling. What was shocking was the gleeful response from the audience, none of whom will be carrying out any bloody marching orders anytime soon. Mr. Luntz and his ilk should be concerned, not happy, about the general dumbing down of America that allows these people to fly under the radar of a majority of Americans.

Just because a story about a cross in the dirt shows up in Solzhenitsyn does not mean it was "stolen." I've read Garfield cartoons that sound "suspiciously" like events in my own life. Doesn't mean I'm "stealing" these humorous events from Jim Davis.

I love how the Mccain-bashers here whine about
"Christianity" & "religion" in the campaign and emotion over reason.

wonder how "outraged" and "cringing" and "blood boiling" they are about those mass rallies where Obama has done some superb mimicking of the best (i.e. least "reasonable") of the Black Preachers - like the Reverend Wright - you remember - the Christian Chruch that Obama joined (perhaps cynically) to further his political ambitions and "street cred"

So there's quite a bit of hypocrisy on the left too - especially from some of the cringing NY secular liberals...

In a world full of greys, McCain has once shown the kind of neo-con mentality that has damaged this country for the last 8 years: black and white, them against us, appeal to emotion and not reason, I am right because I say so.

And of course, he is going to get a huge ovation: emotion always over-rides reason.

Yes, some commentators have "faulted" Obama for such long answers, but since when talking to people's reason is considered a fault instead of a virtue? I guess in an America of reality shows, being a rational person is now a disadvantage. Pitiful. It is time that we start regaining our reason. It is time that someone starts talking to America's reason and not emotion.

Also, enough with McCain's stories!: Yeah, too bad he went thru what he did while a POW but still that, in no way, qualifies him to be a president. And enough with the "maverick" image. If anything, what he has done and said in the last few years has shown a man whose "maverick" attitude has long left him and all he has to hold on to is the past. If anything, if elected president, just as Mr. Bush, it seems to me he will be easy pray to another wave of neo-con manipulators. Not the kind of leadership our country needs to get out of the fine mess that the current incompetent President and his administration will leave behind once they are done and go home to enjoy their estates, yatchs and fine upper-class living.

The Event.
Jesus is weeping.
The Founding Fathers are weeping.
Separation of church and state.
No religious test for office.

"Cross in the Dirt" story stolen from Solzhenitsyn. McCain lies.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/17/173543/323

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/17/122230/161/239/569299

The Pastor lied. McCain was never in a 'cone of silence'. Evidence McCain had questions in advance.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/18/84334/7814

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/18/12135/1844/951/569588

You discuss McCain's slurpy "cross in the dirt" story, but you failed to mention how suspiciously familiar it is to a brief (and better-rendered) episode of the late Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago.

The talk about how religious, let alone how Christian, the Presidential candidates are makes my blood boil. Can't a person be ethical, moral, and patriotic without giving their religious credentials? Religion is too personal to be put into words for a mass audience. And yes, there are other religions and personal ethics that would compel a person to be kind to a POW.

Can the candidates--McCain--stop pandering to our emotional knee-jerk reactions?

very interesting that language and education was and still is used by the controlling powers as a means of validation.

the evil that this world sees is of course bias. the reasons for the powers that be are just as deceptive in the means as well as the ways.

the uses of knowledge is just that; and the ones that control will pay for that control. it is simple. you will reap what you sow

Great topic today. I think it is interesting how people, including myself, will truly listen to an hour of rhetoric, in exchange for a strong catchphrase or word. Let's be honest, this is all too true. The way you say something, and the words you use as a politician, are so important. Classic example: "Yes we can."

#29 Tony in Brooklyn. You mean OSAMA right?

#31 For so many troubled enough to comment on WNYC, whose definition of "evil" - if they even have one - is Bush, the Republicans (and sometimes America and any ally of America)
nothing bad can be ascribed to any of America's enemies - if they even recognize the word "enemy"

Unfortunately, many of these "humanists" can be very closed-minded and nasty when they try to censor opposing views.

Think Chavez (a hero to many of them)

What's great about WNYC and Brian's show is despite a bias towards Democrats (how many WNYC or NPR staff does anyone think are actually voting for McCain?) - it tries to be fair and reasoned & challenging & diverse.

That's why Republicans like me prefer it to talk radio.

The Luntzian technique proves Mark Twain right when he said that for any difficult question there is a simple, easy to undertand, and wrong answer.

With regard to the candidates' appeal to Jewish voters:

In Obama's words about his religious faith, he directly
echoes the answer given by the prophet Micah, in Chap. 6:8, to the question, "What does the Lord require of you, Israel?" What are you supposed to do to live faithfully with your God? Do justice, love mercy, walk humbly with your God.

Perhaps you should do a segment on Mark Twain's "The War Prayer".

These clips are terrifying me. From both candidates. I can't believe this is being portrayed in any way as good. Religion is personal and I don't want to hear about it in regards to a political campaign. Religious rhetoric in campaigns does not help. Any religion can oppose progress for its own reasons and the government can restrict religious expression the more the two become one.

In the questions, Obama gave thoughtful, nuanced answers -- not necessarily political responses. McCain was political through and through. Given how quickly he responded it does seem as though he was ready for them. McCain's brief, emotional replies were guaranteed to get an immediate response from the audience. McCain definitely comes through as the populist (in the Reagan mold) -- Obama will continue to be branded the intellectual (in the elitist mold). Sad but true.

Hey, BORED -- I believe the thinking is that God told Bush to invade Iraq in order to hasten the Apocalypse, which apparently will begin in the Middle East. In which case, it was quite a good suggestion, don't you think?

Megan #7

I agree. What good is a show that doesn't challenge what you think you know? Intellectual coddling is detrimental to all, especially for an unbiased show like Brians.

I am an Obama supporter and not finding anything wrong with Lutz's comments. They're all pretty legitimate.

Who's more Christian? Come on...

Megan #7

I agree. What good is a show that doesn't challenge what you think you know? Intellectual coddling is detrimental to all, especially for an unbiased show like Brians.

well said Katie Kennedy !

The great challenge for people actually qualified to be president is to distill their message into 15 word TV ready "slogans" for the USA USA chanting 95 IQ electorate. McCain has more houses than Obama has years in the Senate, yet he's playing his everyman approach to the hilt? Why? The american electorate is ignorant. Being a prisoner of any sort is not a "qualification," except for VA benefits(which McCain wants to cut). Obama was ridiculed for saying he'd go into Pakistan to get Obama. Yet people cheer when McCain gives his "hunt Obama down and bring him to justice" rhetoric? Where's he going to find him, the Ferragamo store? He's going to find him in Pakistan because THAT'S WHERE HE IS! Sadly people are unable to put these issues in the context of reality and the media is not inclined to do it for them. So we end up with a frat boy who no longer drinks getting appointed president of the US by the Supreme Court because people wanted to have a beer with a recovering alcoholic. Is it any wonder we're an empire in decline?

Oh, no, not the cross in the sand story again! Yeah, he's really loath to make political hay from his POW experience. Almost never refers to it!

i suppose mccain would not think its evil to carpet bomb a country that has no quarrel with us whatsoever.

Didn't God tell Bush to invade Iraq. This alone should discredit God and people who follow him. If God can't tell the future then what else can he really not to do.

I've heard a clip where McCain objects to gay marriage. Why is the definition of marriage more important than marriage vows? He is divorced, is he not?

I am surprised that Brian failed to point out that the "evil" question given to McCain was not the same question given to Obama. I am not surprised that wordsmith Luntz failed to point it out, because it favored his own Republican bias. McCain was asked if we should "defeat" evil; Obama was not asked this, but rather if we should confront vs. negotiate with it. No wonder their definitions of evil were so different and McCain's answer was more forceful.

I say this as someone leaning toward McCain, not as a knee-jerk Obama supporter. But fair is fair, and we need to be more honest.

According to a report in the Feb 21 New York Times, the two women bombers had histories of mental illness, but there was no evidence in their medical files of Down syndrome.

So if the story is false, what are the implications for the existence of evil?

Could you point out that the question they were asked about evil was not exactly the same?! 'Defeat' was not a part of Obama's question!!

You can be Anti Rick Warren Anti Mega Church AND PRO RELIGION. Warren Mega Church ilk can be seen as Anti Religion.

It seems like the crowd was mostly a bunch of those people who find it imposible to think broadly on any topic. I am glad I was watching the olympics instead.

John McCain sounds like a posturing simpleton. McCain's response to the question about "evil" would have done better than Obama's? With whom? Anyone who's naive enough to believe that McCain can overcome his constant bumbling and misstatements about all manner of topics, from the economy to foreign nations and leaders, will also believe that he's going to follow Osama bin laden to the ends of the earth. In fact, I invite him to do just that, so we can actually have a more measured, logic-based leader in our midst.

This conversation is the same ol', same ol'. The definition of "evil" includes more than terrorism, Osama bin Laden, etc., etc..

What about the relationship of power between people, rich and poor, in a capitalist society, or the evil of imperialism as practiced by the Bush Administration, etc., etc.

Duh -- Each was trying to convince evangelical Christians he is one of them. Why don't you pay just a little attention to how their presentations were received by evangelical Christians, rather than the usual tired political analysis you are giving us?

John McCain already knew the Questions. He anwsered the questions before they were asked.

At one point, Obama listed some examples of evil, lumping together child abuse, Darfur, and... "the streets of our cities."
I resented that comment very deeply and not just because it lumped in cities with the carnage in Darfur. Obama knowingly and cynically pandered to his evangelical audience's vicious and ignorant prejudices about big cities -- you know, where the blacks and Jews and homosexuals and godless liberals live -- while delivering a rude slap to his own base — which is largely people who live in those evil, evil cities. Senator Obama, do not defecate where you masticate.

Mc Cain was a sound bite machine. Pre-red with questions he put churned the sound bite non-answer politics that will run on am radio and Fox ad nauseum for months. This "event" was basically a bag right-wing-evangelical bag job.
Obama listened, thought, and answered. Mc Cain always bad off-the-cuff didn't bomb-bomb-bomb-bomb-bomb Iran, he responsed on cue ala k street robot.

I just wanted to tell Mr luntz that yes senator Obama is extremely articulate but I dont see whats makes him so unique from any other candidate,and it infuriates me how his personality and the way he speaks is so over inflated. I just dont see what other people see is so special.

Regarding the question about "evil" -

McCain's answer was simgle-minded blind rage. He did not "nail it". His answer angers me because we have OTHER PROBLEMS in this country beyond just hunting the "evil doers".

McCain - what a simpleton. He says the trancendent challenge to the US is Islamic extremism. He is like an elephant afraid of the fly. No, John, our existence is not threatened by an Islamic movement rejected by the vast majority of Muslims. Our existence is not threatened by an extremist movement that wants to live an 8th Century lifestyle. Wake up, clown and realize that we have greater challenges and they are really internal.

When John Kennedy ran for President, the whole country was fearful that “the Pope” would be involved in American politics. Their fears were unfounded. But today…are we picking a President or an American Pope?

How things have changed. If the Catholic Church or Hasidic Jews had decided to hold the forum that Rick Warren held over the weekend, there would have been outrage. How did the rest of America decide to let the Evangelicals decide what views our President must hold? If the President holds certain religious views,if he believes he has a "personal relationship with Jesus," in making decisions about his personal life he should abide by those beliefs, but in making decisions for this country, he must abide by the Constitution, not the Bible. Where is the candidate who will have enough backbone to take religion out of the elections and who will state that his religious beliefs are private and not the business of the rest of the country?

Our forefathers must be spinning in their graves.

Rick #7-

Sorry you don't like Luntz.

I applaud WNYC for not only having left wing jerks on the shows.

McCain was "defending America in a POW camp?" How's that? It's ABSURD to compare McCain's years in captivity to Obama's years in the Senate!

Please remember to keep your comments on-topic and civil!

McCain was 'defending America' from inside a POW camp?

Frank Luntz is a clever, clever, evil man. Whether his motive for the book and discussions is profit or penance, at least these techniques are effective and not "evil" per se.

Death Taxes my eye, you scoundrel, Mr. Luntz.

With all due respect and nothing personal, but Frank Luntz is part of the problem. Political campaigns are now controlled by the PR industry, the people that sell toothpaste and cereal, etc. It is all about manipulation and that is not the way to run an alleged political democracy.

Um, what about Robert Kennedy?

Obama - Authentic voice for whom? Not me.

Judging by saturday night they include, for starters, drill...evil...friends...