wnyc.org / 93.9fm / am 820

when is our society going to help the mentally ill??

so if the kid was white - sharpton & the race-baiters (sounds like a band) wouldn't give a crap?

were any of the cops "of color"?

does that matter too??

"Don't try to create a straw-man argument. Noone said that, but your statement seemed to suggest a conclusion that this was simply just an unfortunate accident.

Sorry, but this happens waaaay too often and must be looked at very closely due to that fact. End of story."

I wasn't creating a straw-man. I was criticizing your argument. That's hardly the same thing.

Do I think this should be scrutinized because of ongoing race issues? Of course. But you have clearly made an assumption of guilt here and are only now backtracking.

I would also like to comment on the Sharpton comment. I hardly think that criticizing Sharpton himself is the same as saying people of color shouldn't have rights and that anyone who brings up racial issues is race-baiting. Sharpton has repeatedly whipped people into a frenzy only to reveal that he got the facts wrong. He ruins lives and takes no responsibility for it. The fact that he still has the most clout in the black community instead of many other more deserving black leaders is a sign of an ailment not only in the black community but in our society as a whole.

"Well but just because there is an injustice in the sytem does not make every incident an injustice"

Don't try to create a straw-man argument. Noone said that, but your statement seemed to suggest a conclusion that this was simply just an unfortunate accident.

Sorry, but this happens waaaay too often and must be looked at very closely due to that fact. End of story.

"Has sharpton appeared yet on a tv screen near you with his race-baiting shakedown of ny's finest?"

Yeah, because bringing up the fact of the existence of racism and racial inequality and the recurring slaying of minorities by the police is "race-baiting", right? Yeah, I guess people of color should just happily accept being shot repeatedly in situations that don't call for it...people of color should just take racial discrimination and smile and say "thank you" right? Cause otherwise it's "race-baiting"

What a comment...the equivalent of those racist white southerners from the 50's you see in documentaries calling Martin Luther King Jr a "trouble-maker"

I have news for you buddy, institutional slavery is dead and people of color have rights....get with the program and wake the hell up!

"That would fly if this weren't a recurring situation happening to a certain segment of the population but as the reality is, those kind of excuses just aren't good enough"

Well, but just because there is an injustice in the system does not make every incident an injustice. I will say quite firmly that a number of young black men have been killed in incidents where the police was largely if not totally in the wrong. But that doesn't mean that this was necessarily one of those cases.

I think if a white man who had been identified as having a gun and appeared to be out of his mind charged at the police in the middle of the night with an object in his hand, he would be just as dead.

"It's a tragic situation, but it's hard to see what else the cops would do"

That would fly if this weren't a recurring situation happening to a certain segment of the population but as the reality is, those kind of excuses just aren't good enough

Isn't the real problem being missed. If someone has a family member who is mentally ill, other then calling the police what are some other options. Shouldn't there be special cops to deal with situations such as this one.

is this case like some other cases. No. police were told he has a gun (by mother) police said stop. with a man holding a gun coming at them, don't the police have a right to defend themselves. come on. i don't know why mother called the police in the first place. maybe she should have called a doctor.

It's also possible he WANTED the police to shoot him as well. Wouldn't be the first case of suicide by cop (especially since it's an actual term).

has sharpton appeared yet on a tv screen near you with his race-baiting shakedown of ny's finest?

any minute people, any minute

It's a tragic situation, but it's hard to see what else the cops would do. It's easy to say after the fact far from the scene what they should've done, but the reality is that if he DID have a gun, some cops would've been hurt or even killed, and he might've gone on to hurt someone else.

I'll say this though... the time has come for a better way. I would like to see cops using non-lethal weapons, and I would like new non-lethal weapons developed that could provide police with the versatility and speed that a gun currently provides. It would also have to absolutely incapacitate the suspect. Tasers aren't always effective. This is especially true if the suspect is high on something like PCP.

only sergeant carry tasers

"Deranged" is the best term if the victim was out of his wits. The VAST majority of "ill" or "disturbed" people are harmless. To use those terms would imply otherwise.

His mother yelled "he's got a gun". What the hell did she think was gonna happen?

he bed-stuy shooting, certainly a tragedy for all concerned, is very different from the sawyer/tirado incident. in bed-stuy the officers were uniformed and otherwise clearly identified as "cops". no one, possessing a reasonable state of mind rushes policemen with any thing in their hand. if a bye-stander was also shouting "he has a gun", the officers, and indeed, mental health workers would be further justified in opening fire.

all this in very sharp contrast to officer sawyer's encounter with mr. tirado. this incident involved a personal beef between two riled up drivers. sawyer did not identify himself as a cop, tirado never got out of the car. very different.

"...shoot the gun out of the guys hands"?! Don't be patronizing! What I've written is true. The issue of multiple cops is cured by departmental policy and/or an officer on scene who takes command of the squad.

Hey Brian
Could you please stop referring to the 'mentally deranged'? Derangement implies completely, perhaps not-quite-humanly, out of control. Perhaps 'mentally ill' or, to avoid a medical diagnosis, just 'disturbed'. Please, just nothing to dehumanize.

This accident was an execution. Another African America male shot to death by a racist, incompetent and under trained New York City Police Department.
No “Not the finest,” but the worst.

i find it amazing the police in such situations do not have more options for applying non-lethal force. how about tazers, tranquilizer guns? rubber bullets? longer term, how about more R&D for non-lethal weapons?

pam, have you ever fired a gun at someone? It's not like in the movies where you just shoot the gun out of the guys hands. And when you have multiple cops, they are not going to wait to decide who will do the shooting, thus you get a lot of guys firing on a target. It's a really sad situation, to be sure.

What about tasers?

A high-caliber or high-powered bullet or a shotgun charge will stop anyone and land him on the deck.

they are told to shot to kill

Trained police officers cannot distinguish a hairbrush (or a foiled wrapped candy bar) from
handgun.

Killing someone (with multiple gunshots) and then handcuffing his corpse is not an appropriate fashion in which to subdue a mentally disturbed person.

These cops FAILED.

Why do cops shoot to kill rather than to stop their targets?