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I thought Lilla's focus on Islam was counterproductive and led to a superficial examination of serious issues for the United States, especially when he equates the actions of a few radical extremists with the whole of Muslims. My Muslim friends and coworkers, who are largely secular, believe that this attitude fuels persecution in this country, and I have to agree.

My feeling is that activist fundamentalism in this country will do more damage to the US than Islam ever will. The imaginary threat of Islam is being pushed by those seeking to curtail civil rights at home and pursue an apocalyptic foreign policy abroad.

Congratulations to Amy for conducting a great, knowledgeable interview.

I once had a political button that said "Forced Pregnancy Increases Church Attendance". Sure, there are exceptions, but religious fanaticism results from material poverty and political desperation and from those that would exploit such sad people.

Islamic fundamentalism is the most VISIBLE crutique of globalization, but in no way legitimate.

How funny the events of 9/11 and this country's subsequent unthinking bandwagon patriotism dissolved the anti-globalization movement as it gathered steam (WTO Seattle protest) when there was something of a common enemy. Thanks to ignorant, religious thinkers of Islam and Bush's morally bereft foreign policy the world is in more danger than ever.

Well we shouldn't base our deeds, good and bad, on whether or not they please a god or a religion. We, as part of the whole society on this planet have as much of a moral responsibility to each other as we have to ourselves. When we become dependent on an unseen and supernatural being as the judge and decider, if I may, we loose the personal responsibilities and, as has happened with many, we come to project what is good and bad and right and wrong through this being. This to me is immoral.

I really enjoyed your essay on Sunday, but I thought there was something missing in your claim that the resurgence of political theology in Islam is a natural state of affairs.

Islamic Political theology seems as much a response to the all-conquering power of capitalism as it is the expression of an innate human need. With the end of the Cold War and the transformation of China, isn't Islamic fundamentalism the most visible critique of the excesses of global capitalism?

Posted by: Brian August 23, 2007 - 11:23AM
Manhattan
..."Most people agree that an individual has a right not to be tortured by state agencies, the right to privacy, freedom of speech, etc."

Heh! I _wonder_ whether that is in fact true, Brian. If only!

Everyone needs to read "American Theocracy". It is ludicrous to think that this country has a true separation of church and state. It is a farce.

I can support the meeting of the political and religious when it is socially progressive-- take for instance the Pope's criticism of Brazilian Marxist-thinking priests-- their social reform is commendable, but of course the institutionalized religious tyranny wouldn't have any of it.

But of course, true social reform with theocratic thinking is incredibly rare.

See the upcoming movie, "September Dawn".

does anyone remember the classic GWB line in response to a question as to whether he had consulted his father before the iraq invasion??

he referenced a "higher father" than his own as having the final word.

how again is this different than fundamentalist islamic politics?

we cannot dismiss this kind of thinking on our own part. it is a dismissal of rationality and thought....and it has had serious consequences.

Aren't democratic "secular" societies like the U.S. already inherently imbued with popular religious beliefs? Most people agree that an individual has a right not to be tortured by state agencies, the right to privacy, freedom of speech, etc.

However, the right to life/a woman's right to choose, the death penalty, etc. are lines along which there is much disagreement reflecting different moral or ideological beliefs and why laws vary from state to state

If, elected officials enact laws and policies that reflect popular positions, then those secular laws the general ideologies would seem to implicitly reflect the theological tenets of society at large--only without making explicit reference to any religious doctrine.

Madison's comments, cited above, represent light-years of advancement over the conventional thinking of the religiously devout Europeans who came to the "New World" one hundred and forty-four years before Madison's time.

And, James Madison's thought remains far ahead of our own time.

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."- Sinclair Lewis

"Islam's secularization will never come about without a comparable Renaissance and an Enlightenment-- you can give people all the capitalism they want, but without a humanitarian, secular appreciation of human life and democracy it won't be sustainable."

I couldn't agree more

Yeah, Hobbes thought we could avoid the problem of God by removing the question from the public sphere---AND LEAVING IT IN THE HANDS OF A DICTATOR.

Hobbes, if he lived today and had the same views as those he espoused in his time, would be the champion par excellence of the "unitary executive" as Bush and Cheney conceive it. Indeed, Hobbes is rightfully the veritable _father_ of the unitary executive concept.

That's a 1/4 step forward from the idea that God's will subjugates us all.

Didn't read the essay, but I totally disagree. If you believe in the Enlightenment and Liberalism- the separation is fundamental.notice that those who decry the separation are the forces that would take us back in time, not forward. i.e., the Republicans, the Islamic Fundamentalists in Turkey, the Orthodox that wield more power in Israel than ever before.

Today, the "secular" United States makes a joke about the separation of church and state, or at least the Bush administration does. For example, the Supreme Court's abysmal decision on the Freedom from Religion Foundation's recent claim against the White House Office of Faith-based Initiatives, or the de facto "Office of Faith".

Islam's secularization will never come about without a comparable Renaissance and an Enlightenment-- you can give people all the capitalism they want, but without a humanitarian, secular appreciation of human life and democracy it won't be sustainable.

"The civil government ... functions with complete success ... by the total separation of the Church from the State." - James Madison

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient allies."- James Madison