re the assertion that "conservatives never do that to liberals", I love it how rightwingers like that guy who called up on this segment feel entitled to define what patriotism is.

As a certified liberal, I 'spose my most polite response is, I don't think so.

Three points. 1) As many of the comments already suggest, the distinction between politics and sports has been lost. Thanks, perhaps, most recently to the cheerleading Bush administration which actively sought to eliminate the distinction, hence their jingoistic nationalism that they called "patriotism."

2) My son was 7 years old on September 11, 2001 and watched the first plane go into the north Tower from his fourth Floor classroom in PS 29 in Brooklyn. His mom, my wife, was in Europe on business. But I was home two blocks away. I heard the blast, but with major street work (new water tunnel) in front of our house with all its attendant noise, I ignored the sound.

A friend called me about the disaster, and I looked out the window of our upper floor Coop and saw the Towers on fire. I ran to PS 29 and up the stairs to the Fourth floor to his classroom and saw the second graders in a circle around the teacher, Ms Fish. The classroom blinds were drawn. I asked my son if he wanted to come home. He said no, that he wanted to stay.

Idiot that I am, I heeded Mayor Guiliani's call not to pick up our children until school, was out. When I returned at 3pm only 2 children remained at the school, one of them my son. I regret heeding the Mayor.

My son was permanently scarred by the experience. An unhealthy fear of death, many violent, military nightmares for years and years.

3) Last Sunday night I called him in Florida--he is a top tennis player and attends a tennis Academy there. I asked him how he felt about Bin Ladin's demise.

Watching the chanting young crowds on the media, it occurred me how these young people, especially my son, had lived most of their lives in the shadow of 9/11.

My son's response was unexpected. He said that Bin Ladin's death had lifted his sense that evil was immortal and could not be overcome. He now realizes that everyone dies and that death is a natural fact. Bin Ladin's death enabled him to begin to accept his own mortality.

Since I have strong concerns about the executive or his designees acting as judge, jury, and executioner (targeted assassinations, not only for foreigners but also for American citizens), I was not comfortable at all about the kill shots to Osama bin Laden.

I would have much preferred a free and fair trial, but I was pretty sure that was not in the cards. We now seem to fear our judicial system in ways that are different from when we might fear it for being completely unfair and rigged. Now we fear it won't be unfair and rigged. In special situations.

So, no we skip the judicial system and just go for the kill.

I asked if now we could get our Constitution back.... I don't see that happening any time soon. Alas.

Re: Anonymous Journalist @ 10:39AM--

I saw some shots of the crowd at the WH, which the media was treating as a rather large crowd, and the long shots showed a pretty small crowd, but, yes, a crowd.

Thet tight cropping of the shots on most news programs made the crowd look pretty big. Which reminded me of what our MCM (Mainstream Corporate Media) did with a smallish crowd at the pulling down of a statue of Saddam Hussein when the US first took control of Baghdad. It turned out the statue was pulled down by a small group managed by the US military and assisted in the pull down down.

(But I knew that because I had seen BBC footage using long shots. It's so hard to trust out MCM!)

But it made great propaganda, back when the MCM was in full propaganda mode..

While the chant may have originated (as David from the Atlantic mentioned) in a moment of sincere pride and cultivated through sports culture over the years, I think many of the recent younger participants join or even start the chant ironically. As mocked by the Simpsons and other satirists, the chant is a symbol of blind patriotism, usually from a non-liberal point of view. When irony goes far enough, it appears to be sincere. Can there be such a thing as "ironic jingoism?"

I agree with Stephanie. It has nothing to do with liberalism, it has to do with good and poor taste. Sports and national security are two separate things. But even within sports, the level headed winner who is does not gloat: is the one we respect. The bin Laden ordeal has been a long haul. Of course we feel emotional. But IMO Americans should learn to temper public expression that can aggravate negative perceptions and anti-US sentiment. When we exert our vast power, others often feel powerless. Our national security is only lessened when misunderstandings are fueled.
Feel what you feel, but remember decorum in public. It's much more important than many American realize. "Average" Americans are not stupid or clueless about nuance. So why behave in a manner that looks to the contrary?

David (on air), as a lefty, I don’t take offense, I just think unbridled patriotism is uncouth.

Oh, I remember when people where chanting Obama’s name during his campaign rallies, and the conservatives I knew claimed that the left was all a bunch of brain-washed followers and that this was evidence that Obama was Hitler.

The USA chant just has that frat-boy football stadium vibe to it, people sound like a bunch of tools when they chant it, it seems more like a caricature chat it than to be earnest.

Chanting Obama’s name at one of his rally’s makes sense because that’s the point of the whole thing, plus since Obama funny name was a point of contention (with the right), it seemed more relevant to shout it and embrace it as a supporter. I could see chanting USA at the Olympics since the “teams” are represented by nations, so it’s appropriate in the atmosphere.

Terrorism, war, assassination, human tragedy, isn’t a sporting event, again, I’m not offended, I’m just not really compelled to join in considering the context.

A point about the lntroduction to this segment. The coverage was not only utube and videos.Television coverage Sunday evening focused on the crowd in front of the White House. So tv, especially CNN which had a split screen (including background audio) of the gathering which almost drowned out the voice of the other report, loved it.

I attended a Yankees game after 9/11 and during the perfunctory singing of "God Bless America" I refused to stand because I am an atheist. I was "slammed" by a stadium employee and I promptly engaged him in a heated argument. We have a right to our beliefs and opinions. The reaction I recieved would indicate otherwise. This kind of patriotism is disengenuous and hypocritical and , frankly, scary. Needless to say I have not returned to Yankee Stadium. And I am never around for the 7th inning stretch.

I was at the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles - when the Soviets boycotted - and recall very well feeling very uncomfortable at the incessant "USA" chants.

This issue reminds me that many in our country mix up Patriotism with Nationalism.

I'm very patriotic, but I'm not nationalistic; I don't believe America is better than all other countries. Which country we're born in is pretty random, and I'm grateful I was born here, but we're also citizens of the world.

Looks to me like most of those chanting in front of the White House were opportunistic frat boy types.

So refreshingly listening to the comments of the young who as children watched their world blow up on live TV. Who were the USA chanters and why, Brian. Thank you CNN.

can we just look at the chant in and of itself, and see how silly, and infantile, and all about moron sports culture ethos it is. also how inflexible and extreme people on the right are. what is to cheer,billions of dollars for oil. millions of lives wrecked on the other side of the planet,as well as many here. oh i forgot,they, on the other side of the planet, are not part of the u.s.a. chant. anyone wonder why sports talk radio is so bloody to the right,not me.

Upon hearing the news of the death of OBL I felt a sense of relief (that OBL was gone) and sadness (all deaths caused by the WOT. I definitely not a feeling to chant, "USA, USA, USA" along with fist pumps into the air.
What came to my mind a few second later was the words from the Tao Te Ching Chapter 31:
"On happy occasions precedence is given to the left,
On sad occasions to the right.
In the army the general stands on the left,
The commander-in-chief on the right.
This means that war is conducted like a funeral.
When many people are being killed,
They should be mourned in heartfelt sorrow.
That is why a victory must be observed like a funeral."

God bless my Christian Brother who called for a more excellent standard in handling our impulse for revenge.

3 other points

1) I believe USA is the proper name of this country. I vastly prefer the use of USA to "America" to refer to our country, because the latter is offensive to the rest of Latin America. Which is just as American as us United Statesians.

2) Capturing Bin Laden and holding a public trail would have been a valuable chance to air evidence against him and stripped away a lot of the support/sympathy he has in the Arab and Muslims worlds.

Osama bin Laden, messianic misanthrope, and disowned trust fund baby from the sixty fifth richest family on planet earth. Your overvalued misinterpretation of God’s will, killed thousands of my neighbors for the crime of going to work; robbed our children of the freedom and knowledge to live in an open society, a working democracy. How could you possibly understand? A week before 9/11/01 I had privilege to speak with an Imam in the seat of the old Caliph in Istanbul. We were sharing the wonders of Islam with our children, in order that they could better world citizens in the 21th century. As we spoke and shared a glass of water, I was asked what it is like to live in Manhattan. My reply was we live on a small island where people come from all over the world to work and live together. You can bring your beliefs’ and faith practices and live by them or not, No one can harm you for this. He said that he hoped to visit New York City to see this for himself, we wish each other well. A week later two jet-fighters screamed roaring down the east river to the cheers and fears of New Yorkers. War, War’s face is becoming clear. War is being born out of oily black plumes, clouds of airliner impacts New York, the Pentagon, Pennsylvania. All we New Yorkers can do is give 16,000 pints of blood for the injured survivors which never came and pray for love ones that may not come home. Osama you understand this you lived on the blood of innocence’s Hindu, Jew, Christian, Muslim, peoples of all faiths your hate didn’t discriminate children women and men dead. Please forgive me while I praise the American’s that put a bullet through your head!

Thank You! God Bless You and America!

I'll take the USNA's chant...

I

I believe

I believe that

I believe that we

I believe that we will win!

I believe that we will win!

I believe that we will win!

I believe that we will win!

I believe that we will win!

re the assertion that "conservatives never do that to liberals": if i had a dollor for every "white wine and brie" remark i've ever heard from conservatives about liberals i'd be able to afford plenty of white wine and brie.

How about "Banzai America" or "Hail Obama" instead? My only complaint about repetitiously chanting "U-S-A" is that it sounds just a bit unoriginal. Even "Hey, hey, USA" would be a significant improvement, IMO.

I love the first caller defending the chanting by saying that the left loves to mock whatever the average American does.

Mr. Caller, people on the left ARE average Americans!

while i believe we're all equally thrilled about osama's death, the chanting makes me uncomfortable for two reasons: first, yes, i believe it makes us look jingoistic to others and invites more anti-US sentiment and potential attacks. second, it's just distasteful exuberance. it has nothing to do with liberalism like that previous caller said, and to go back to the sports analogy, football has excessive celebration warning flags for what i believe is a similar sense of taking your triumph to an unnecessary level of glee.

No cringing here. Those who live by the sword will die by the sword - Jesus.

Don't people find it distasteful when presented with images of people in the so-called Muslim world cheering the deaths of US soldiers? Obviously, the two types of casualties in this case are hardly comparable, but this USA business does reflect a double standard that, by now, should come as no surprise to any observer of the disintegration of common decency over the past decade.

By the way, the promoters of nationalistic chanting at football games in other countries are referred to as "hooligans." Can we try setting the bar a bit higher please?

The USA chant is similar to any other sound bite. What would you yell ? There are many people who have been affected by the WTC bombings so this is the result of the positive energy leaning towards joy.

puh-leeze... lib hand-wringing at its worst. I like your show Brian, but this segment - oooof.

Would it have been better for fans to have shouted Bin Laden's Dead?

War is ugly primarily because of the loss of human life, but it is also ugly in what it brings out in its citizens This fist-pumping, flag-waving chanting should be referred to "nationalism" not "patriotism". The first is an accurate, neutral phrase, the second is a product peddled by the mainstream corporate commercially funded media.

if our national anthem was a bit easier to sing we might hear that rather than 'usa" in some cases.

I always like "Shut down the US war machine, from Korea to Iraq to the Philippines"... but I suppose it's not for everybody.

US boycotted 1984 Winter Olympics? No. Boycot was of 1980 Moscow Olympics.

Asuming Can-a-da chant. It must have been during a game against US.

People chant and make all kinds of noises all over the world. Personally I didn't chant or scream anything. Is this topic really worth a segment?

Yes, Brian, I find it coarse. It displays the same lack of thought that the "unwashed masses" display when supporting such mentally deficient candidates as Palin, Trump, and others. Regrettably, these masses make more noise than thoughtful, educated types. Yes, it's good that they got Bin Laden (why did it take ten years?). But it's only the beginning of what we have to do to safeguard our nation and its free allies. It's not a football game; it's the fate of the world.

As a working member of the media I can not allow you to publish this with my name. You can publish it with out my name or simply use it for internal purposes.

Hi,

While to some extent this letter is preaching to the choir, I think it’s something NPR needs to remind itself of. As one of the only sane voices in a sea of insanity you are the only news organization I am even contacting.

The weight given in the Osama Bin Laden coverage to the crowds at ground zero and times square needs to be kept in perspective. As a TV news photographer I was at both locations and took many of the images, which although dramatic when seen on a TV screen are essentially meaningless.

When I arrived at the Trade Center site in the early ours of Monday morning I found a crowd numbering in the hundreds or at most thousands, out of that crowd at most a few hundred were actively involved, the rest were mostly watching in curiosity. This is an insignificant percentage of New York’s population.

While hardly scientific, most of the people I saw in that crowd looked indistinguishable from the people I shoot after sports victories or during New Years. Young people, perhaps on their way home from a night on the town, frantic to be seen on television. When a chant is rewarded with camera lights and still camera flashes, the crowd quickly learns the lesson and offers more dramatic behavior.

I know all of this is rehashes age old journalistic debates. I also know how hard it is to advance a story when most of the available material is official speeches and press releases.

However, it’s dangerous to allow these people to represent the United States to both ourselves and the rest of the world on such an important story. I cringe when I think that a single person standing on a street light spraying Champaign on the crowd will represent “what American’s are thinking.

As a working member of the media I can not allow you to publish this with my name. You can publish it with out my name or simply use it for internal purposes.

The failed USA chant on the L train is such a New York moment.

LOL

This is obviously a time-filler segment, but I always associate the U-S-A chant with the 1980 Lake Placid Olympics, during the United States vs. USSR hockey games. This I believe was it's definitive origin and I don't even work for the Atlantic!

More harder news stories please!

I am a Canadian living in NYC and it makes me cringe.

Its called Tribalism in its most base vulgar form,
its a Fanatic its patriotism its a freedom fighter its a terrorist....

Brian

Your passing reference to your absence from the WNYC microphones during all of those celebrated attacks on the US seems more important than the subject of this segment.

Perhaps the FBI might want to "interview" you? They may be interested to know if you have an alibi for those times your were on "vacation"?

ha ha ha ha! Can-a-duh!

I was among those who flocked to the White House when the news broke that Bin Laden had been killed. While I didn't personally chant anything at all, I certainly support those who did. I can't speak for everyone there, but the mood was not "hooray we killed someone," it was really just "hooray America." Which considering the circumstances seemed to me to be the healthiest way to express a whole range of emotions - relief, joy, a sense of justice, good news amidst a terrible economy and wretched political climate, excitement from hearing this news at 10:30 on an otherwise uneventful Sunday night. The fact of the matter is that the majority of people there were from the GWU dorms two blocks away - and for people in our generation, this man has followed us throughout our entire young adult lives as the closest thing to Voldemort as we'll probably ever get. It was only natural to be elated that he was defeated. So you've got to cheer something - would you rather it was "death to terrorists!" than the more positive "USA!" ?

http://m.gawker.com/5798128/u+s+a-chant-fails-on-l-train

Thought this was a funny story.

I was in the LES on Sunday night in an empty bar. We listened to the president, and we listened to born in the USA by springsteen. But the USA-USA chant has always struck me as sounding very overpowering and almost fascist. (thinking about the world cup this summer).

I went down to ground zero the evening after OBL was killed. I heard the USA chants and watched those swept up in the moment. It didn't seem particularly inappropriate. It sounded like a very simple outlet of happiness at the death of an evil individual whose twisted ideology killed thousands and continues to poison thousands of minds. Perhaps the chant isn't particularly clever, but it did offer a simple release and way to express relief and closure

A flag does not a patriot make. (particularly when draped on a drunkard's shoulder).
Remember the cheering from the hotheads in the Middle East after 9/11?
How did that make you feel?

I think it was a spontaneous celebration of victory more than of death. (had bin Laden be captured alive, I think the reaction would have been very similar.) I found the Phillies v Mets game crowd's reaction to the texted news to be sincerely patriotic, not blood thirsty.

OK. we've covered the Osama thing and all possible story spin-offs enough. Did all the problems we are facing in the economy end suddenly? I think the coverage is becoming stale now. I beginning to find this show boring in the last few months... it's .lost its mojo.

Dumb segment..........it's just going to unleash the usual self-righteous gnashing of "progressive" teeth. But it's OK to chant, scream, threaten and physically intimidate state lawmakers if you're members of a teacher's union or other public sector unions looking out for your own guaranteed pay increases in a recession, right? Go and look on Utube at some of the behavior of these "professionals" recently in Wisconsin......and then try to drum up pretentious outrage at some spontaneous late night shouts of "USA" at the news of Osama's demise.
Please.
If some of the posters here were in Times Square in 1945 on VE Day, they would have had their usual dyspetic view of the celebration.

I find this chant inappropriate, particularly as many people have lost their lives around the world as a result of Osama bin Laden. It is not a football match.